Current Events > The big problem I have with Christianity is..

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Why should your soul be punished for your flesh?
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Pretty sure both the christian interpretations hell and heaven are very "physical" and not just about your soul.

Either way, any idea of an afterlife is pretty dumb. The very notion of existing forever, in either hell or heaven, is scarier than death.
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You do exist forever as energy as it cannot be created or destroyed but only be transformed into another form of energy .Whether that energy is conscious or not is something we will ever know. The only true answer to any religious debate is: We don't know.

I'm happy enough to know that my energy will always be in the universe, be it as part of a star or used by a plant or insect. It will always exist and that's comforting enough for me.
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utarefson posted...

Whether that energy is conscious or not is something we will ever know. The only true answer to any religious debate is: We don't know.

I'm pretty confident in saying a rock isn't conscious and neither is some form of energy like heat or radio waves.
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piUrsEitanizm posted...

Why should your soul be punished for your flesh?

Punishment, that's why
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Link HT posted...

utarefson posted...

Whether that energy is conscious or not is something we will ever know. The only true answer to any religious debate is: We don't know.

I'm pretty confident in saying a rock isn't conscious and neither is some form of energy like heat or radio waves.

Maybe that rock was part of a being eons ago or will be part of one in the far off future.. Who knows? Not you or anyone else.
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The problem with religion that is it all illogical bullshit.
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Link HT posted...

utarefson posted...

Whether that energy is conscious or not is something we will ever know. The only true answer to any religious debate is: We don't know.

I'm pretty confident in saying a rock isn't conscious and neither is some form of energy like heat or radio waves.

Consciousness is just atoms moving around, same thing as a rock.
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Flasbangs posted...

Maybe that rock was part of a being eons ago or will be part of one in the far off future.. Who knows? Not you or anyone else.

Maybe, but probably not. Either way, it really doesn't matter. The atoms that make up my body have absolutely nothing to do with my consciousness. They have existed for billions of years and I know absolutely nothing about that time. Hell, your entire body is constantly regenerating, your cells keep dying and being replaced by new cells and my consciousness is unchanged by this fact.
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Consciousness is not understood by any science. No one knows exactly why we have it, or how we got it, or if it's even connected to our brain like many think.
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snakes_righteye posted...

Consciousness is not understood by any science. No one knows exactly why we have it, or how we got it, or if it's even connected to our brain like many think.

dude, lol. We know with absolute certainty it's connected to the brain. I can prove it too, it's as simple as just whacking you across the head hard enough and you'll lose consciousness.
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The atoms are the only reason you have a body and a brain, which is the only reason you think you have a consciousness.

But theres nothing special about them. Consciousness is just memory and being able to imagine yourself in different states.
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mortimerjames posted...

The atoms are the only reason you have a body and a brain, which is the only reason you think you have a consciousness.

But theres nothing special about them. Consciousness is just memory and being able to imagine yourself in different states.

Agree to disagree. If you think the composition of a rock is even remotely similar to how insanely complex the human brain is that's on you. I'd say it's pretty special and by far the most complex mechanism we know of.
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Link HT posted...

Flasbangs posted...

Maybe that rock was part of a being eons ago or will be part of one in the far off future.. Who knows? Not you or anyone else.

Maybe, but probably not. Either way, it really doesn't matter. The atoms that make up my body have absolutely nothing to do with my consciousness. They have existed for billions of years and I know absolutely nothing about that time. Hell, your entire body is constantly regenerating, your cells keep dying and being replaced by new cells and my consciousness is unchanged by this fact.

I think "Maybe, but probably not" applies more to any religion out there.
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Link HT posted...

mortimerjames posted...

The atoms are the only reason you have a body and a brain, which is the only reason you think you have a consciousness.

But theres nothing special about them. Consciousness is just memory and being able to imagine yourself in different states.

Agree to disagree. If you think the composition of a rock is even remotely similar to how insanely complex the human brain is that's on you. I'd say it's pretty special and by far the most complex mechanism we know of.

Zoom in close enough and I'll bet that a brain and a rock look pretty similar.
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Essentially everything in the Universe is made out of atoms, its how they are arranged that defines the object. A rock or a brain is built out of atoms but not of the same type and arrangement. Its crazy actually when you really analyze it. Its almost like everything is made of pixels or polygons, or Lego pieces....very complex ones to be sure, but still the same.

I like to think of consciousness as the signals of electricity that travel across your brain. The neurons and atoms are only the highway upon which your consciousness travels and allows you to understand it. The energy is the consciousness and our brain is only a tool that allows us to move it around.
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What if our brains actually aren't the source of our consciousness though? What if they're just a terminal that receives signals from somewhere else? And that's why if something happens to our brain we lose consciousness? Like how if you break a TV screen the picture goes out but the signal going to it still exists.

999 suggested something like that and it seemed like an interesting idea. :u From our point of view, we can't be certain whether or brains are just terminals for something else or actually responsible for our consciousness. If they weren't, it'd explain why we still have a limited understanding of consciousness.
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All the abrahamic religions are the same.

StreetFighter5 posted...

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It's » Current Events », buddy.
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Most Christian denominations don't properly teach the differences between the uses of body, soul, and spirit. Biblically the 3 of them aren't the same.

OpheliaAdenade posted...

What if our brains actually aren't the source of our consciousness though? What if they're just a terminal that receives signals from somewhere else? And that's why if something happens to our brain we lose consciousness? Like how if you break a TV screen the picture goes out but the signal going to it still exists.

999 suggested something like that and it seemed like an interesting idea. :u From our point of view, we can't be certain whether or brains are just terminals for something else or actually responsible for our consciousness. If they weren't, it'd explain why we still have a limited understanding of consciousness.

There'd never be any proof and there have already been tests to that can link thinking to specific chemical reactions in the brain so its not out of the question that when we figure out the brain we'll figure out consciousness isn't anything special.

Sooner or later we'll have to realize that we are literally just atoms rearranged due to entropy and evolution, formed from processes no different than the formation of a rock.
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mortimerjames posted...

There'd never be any proof and there have already been tests to that can link thinking to specific chemical reactions in the brain so its not out of the question that when we figure out the brain we'll figure out consciousness isn't anything special. Sooner or later we'll have to realize that we are literally just atoms rearranged due to entropy and evolution, formed from processes no different than the formation of a rock.

But then how do you explain ghosts? :u Tons of people have seen ghosts. We've even captured them on camera/audio! If we're all just atoms, that shouldn't be possible. There has to be something more to the equation.
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

mortimerjames posted...

There'd never be any proof and there have already been tests to that can link thinking to specific chemical reactions in the brain so its not out of the question that when we figure out the brain we'll figure out consciousness isn't anything special. Sooner or later we'll have to realize that we are literally just atoms rearranged due to entropy and evolution, formed from processes no different than the formation of a rock.

But then how do you explain ghosts? :u Tons of people have seen ghosts. We've even captured them on camera/audio! If we're all just atoms, that shouldn't be possible. There has to be something more to the equation.

If this guy for real? Dude, I hate to break it to you, but ghosts aren't real =(
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