Current Events > Apparently, Toby Fox made the worst, most tedious trophies possible for the PS4

(+) Yeah! (+)

...version of Undertale, simply because he hates achievements/trophies and wanted everyone to suffer.
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Lmao nice
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im looking at the list, and they arent too bad
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I can see the snark in the names of the trophies, but they seem reasonable. That said, I've never played the game so I might be way off.
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coolpal23 posted...

im looking at the list, and they arent too bad

this. the dog shrine seems stupid though so i'm guessing the topic is specifically about those.
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DarthAragorn posted...

Lmao nice

Why hate them? It's not like they do any harm... How come you either have to completely love something or completely hate it? Why not a neutral stance? ;_;

coolpal23 posted...

im looking at the list, and they arent too bad

Half of them are devoted to a new Dog Shrine quest, where you can only donate one coin at a time apparently, and 4 trophies are dedicated just for picking up one, two, three, and four items. Nothing like, beat the neutral route, pacifist route, genocide route, nothing about other in-game events like the dating, or little easter eggs and hidden stuff like finding and beating So Sorry, or a trophy for one of the many ways you can beat a boss fight, or even subvert them entirely, like buying something from Muffet to avoid her boss battle entirely. Or maybe getting all the enemies' names yellow in the pacifist credits, or on that note, avoiding all the Kickstarter names that show up. I mean, these are just things off the top of my head. There's lots of little secrets and easter eggs and challenges that he could've done trophies for. Maybe complete the Ball mini-game fast enough to get a red flag. I could go on, but I digress.

Darkninja42 posted...

I can see the snark in the names of the trophies

Having the Platinum called "Don't You Have Anything Better to Do?" is a little more than just snark. ¬_¬

Disappointing, but oh well.
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I dislike this Toby Fox guy more and more the more I see.

I'm familiar with his mentality. This guy is overrated as hell and should thank his lucky stars his content got memed.
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Kisai posted...

alf of them are devoted to a new Dog Shrine quest, where you can only donate one coin at a time apparently, and 4 trophies are dedicated just for picking up one, two, three, and four items. Nothing like, beat the neutral route, pacifist route, genocide route, nothing about other in-game events like the dating, or little easter eggs and hidden stuff like finding and beating So Sorry, or a trophy for one of the many ways you can beat a boss fight, or even subvert them entirely, like buying something from Muffet to avoid her boss battle entirely. Or maybe getting all the enemies' names yellow in the pacifist credits, or on that note, avoiding all the Kickstarter names that show up. I mean, these are just things off the top of my head. There's lots of little secrets and easter eggs and challenges that he could've done trophies for. Maybe complete the Ball mini-game fast enough to get a red flag. I could go on, but I digress.

ehhh, the game is pretty pretentious about how you play it though. remember you're meant to be a real dickhead for even considering a genocide route, and your victories and saving the world is meant to be a "hollow victory" if you destroy the world and then save it after the fact. Adding achievements to the endings is spoiler-ey as hell and strips the game of it's purpose . too many people go in with guides on how to get the perfect playthrough. going in blind and doing what YOU want to do and watching the game react to it eventually is part of what makes the game special. which is why he has this attitude towards achievements I guess. i'm glad they opted not to do story-related achievements.
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Kisai posted...

Having the Platinum called "Don't You Have Anything Better to Do?" is a little more than just snark. ¬_¬

I mean, what else what you call it? It's not some grand statement that's gonna make people that care about trophies reconsider.
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Kisai posted...

Why hate them? It's not like they do any harm

i guess you never experienced GFWL and its "no fiddling with saves to preserve the legitimacy of completely worthless e-peen points" system?

and that's just one reason why trophies and cheevos need to die in a horrendous fire.

here's another one:
https://www.trueachievements.com/a177244/xbox-one-preorder-achievement
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AsucaHayashi posted...

Kisai posted...

Why hate them? It's not like they do any harm

i guess you never experienced GFWL and its "no fiddling with saves to preserve the legitimacy of completely worthless e-peen points" system?

and that's just one reason why trophies and cheevos need to die in a horrendous fire.

here's another one:
https://www.trueachievements.com/a177244/xbox-one-preorder-achievement

Isn't that an achievement on the console itself? I'm not even sure how, or why they would have one for that. But that's not a good example as to why they should all be done away with.
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Trophies/achievements contributed nothing positive to gaming. They're just a way for the industry to create the illusion of replayability where there is none and prey on people's compulsive tendencies with hollow worthless gestures.

Games used to have cool rewards and unlockables for doing these things. Now those are sold as separate paid DLC day 1 or held hostage as pre-order bonuses and you get meaningless e-dick points instead.

If I made a game that "had" to have achievements/trophies, I would have done the same thing.
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Kisai posted...

Isn't that an achievement on the console itself? I'm not even sure how, or why they would have one for that. But that's not a good example as to why they should all be done away with.

i listed two examples with one of them being tied directly towards the horrendous design philosophy of an entire digital gaming platform that affected thousands of people.
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Tmk posted...

Games used to have cool rewards and unlockables for doing these things.

Not always. It's not like you unlock anything for beating a Kingdom Hearts game on the hardest difficulty. You don't unlock anything for having a save file in Zelda or Mario that has a zero death/continue count.
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AsucaHayashi posted...

Kisai posted...

Isn't that an achievement on the console itself? I'm not even sure how, or why they would have one for that. But that's not a good example as to why they should all be done away with.

i listed two examples with one of them being tied directly towards the horrendous design philosophy of an entire digital gaming platform that affected thousands of people.

I honestly don't know anything about Games For Windows Live, or anything that happened with it. I know lots of people complained and hated it, but I didn't hear any complaints related to editing save files and achievements.
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Kisai posted...

Tmk posted...

Games used to have cool rewards and unlockables for doing these things.

Not always. It's not like you unlock anything for beating a Kingdom Hearts game on the hardest difficulty. You don't unlock anything for having a save file in Zelda or Mario that has a zero death/continue count.

In Kingdom Hearts the harder the difficulty the less you have to do to see the secret endings.
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it was bad enough to be included in articles:
https://www.howtogeek.com/244902/why-pc-gamers-hated-microsofts-games-for-windows-live/

GFWL is famous for corrupting save files. Those save files are encrypted to help prevent gamers from copying them and easily getting worthless achievements, so you can’t copy them to a new computer as easily. I’ve personally had these problems with various games.
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Kisai posted...

Not always. It's not like you unlock anything for beating a Kingdom Hearts game on the hardest difficulty. You don't unlock anything for having a save file in Zelda or Mario that has a zero death/continue count.

Yes, not every game did that. Not every game had cool cheat codes or other ways to turn the game on its head either.

Now almost no game has either of those things, and it's because of trophchievements.
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AsucaHayashi posted...

Kisai posted...

Why hate them? It's not like they do any harm

i guess you never experienced GFWL and its "no fiddling with saves to preserve the legitimacy of completely worthless e-peen points" system?

and that's just one reason why trophies and cheevos need to die in a horrendous fire.

here's another one:
https://www.trueachievements.com/a177244/xbox-one-preorder-achievement

A limited zero point achievement is an achievement that nobody cares about.
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AsucaHayashi posted...

GFWL is famous for corrupting save files. Those save files are encrypted to help prevent gamers from copying them and easily getting worthless achievements, so you can’t copy them to a new computer as easily. I’ve personally had these problems with various games.

It wouldn't let you copy your save files? Did it use a cloud-based system for transferring save files at least?

Tmk posted...

Yes, not every game did that. Not every game had cool cheat codes or other ways to turn the game on its head either.

Now almost no game has either of those things, and it's because of trophchievements.

I dunno... It feels like that sort of thing was dying off in general. The only games I can think of during the GameCube/PS2 era, before the 360 even came out, was the GTA games. But you can't say that "cheat codes are locked behind microtransactions", because GTAV doesn't even have stuff like that anyway. The only games I can think of past 2000 that still had cheats were PC games. I'm honestly drawing a blank on N64/PS1/GameCube/PS2 stuff.
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Undertale is a meme game
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GTA5 is a husk of what it could have been because of the utter cancer that is GTAO. That's an entirely different bundle of mistakes...though at its heart is the fact of how profitable GTAO is, because of microtransactions (though the most expensive shark cards are hardly micro).


Ever play the Ratchet & Clank games on PS2?

Those had something similar to trophies in the form of skill points. And skill points were currency to unlock various neat stuff, and cheat code type stuff as well.
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Yaridovich posted...

Kisai posted...

Tmk posted...

Games used to have cool rewards and unlockables for doing these things.

Not always. It's not like you unlock anything for beating a Kingdom Hearts game on the hardest difficulty. You don't unlock anything for having a save file in Zelda or Mario that has a zero death/continue count.

In Kingdom Hearts the harder the difficulty the less you have to do to see the secret endings.

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Kisai posted...

Having the Platinum called "Don't You Have Anything Better to Do?" is a little more than just snark. ¬_¬

What's wrong with that? I think most trophy/achievement hunter's realize that they dump a lot of time into it. It just seems tongue in cheek.
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Kanaya413 posted...

Undertale is a meme game

There... aren't any memes in it, though. Unless you count "get dunked on".

Tmk posted...

GTA5 is a husk of what it could have been because of the utter cancer that is GTAO. That's an entirely different bundle of mistakes...though at its heart is the fact of how profitable GTAO is, because of microtransactions (though the most expensive shark cards are hardly micro).

Yeah, the Shark Card thing is bullshit. It's annoying how I'd have to pay a ton of money to get all those cool vehicles or features. Honestly, I'm not sure which is worse: grinding for hours like in some MMORPGs, or having to shill out $100.

Ever play the Ratchet & Clank games on PS2?

Those had something similar to trophies in the form of skill points. And skill points were currency to unlock various neat stuff, and cheat code type stuff as well.

I never played the games. It sounds like Ratchet & Clank is kinda unique in that regard.

Admittedly, one of the only games I ever actively went for a Platinum on — LittleBigPlanet — would give you extra prizes if you completed a level with every treasure in it collected, or without dying. So if you tried to get all the extra prizes from collecting all treasures from every level, or beating every level without dying, you would eventually get trophies for doing just that.

coolpal23 posted...

In Kingdom Hearts the harder the difficulty the less you have to do to see the secret endings.

I guess that's true... I guess that leaves doing a level 1 playthrough, then.
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LittleBigPlanet was made by really awesome people who got an even awesomer person to narrate.

It takes pretty awesome devs these days to still get stuff like that.
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"Don't you have anything better to do" is a reference to a line that you get in game for doing the intro a bunch of times in a row.
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I think rewarding the player with a trophy for the genocide ending kinda ruins a lot of the commentary the game goes for during that route.
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Darmik posted...

I think rewarding the player with a trophy for the genocide ending kinda ruins a lot of the commentary the game goes for during that route.

we hate the genocide route anyway all must live :(.
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Except Temmie.


she knows what she did
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Darmik posted...

I think rewarding the player with a trophy for the genocide ending kinda ruins a lot of the commentary the game goes for during that route.

Wouldn't that make it all the better if Toby Fox hates trophies, then? "You can have your trophy, but you have to permanently ruin your save file."

Tmk posted...

LittleBigPlanet was made by really awesome people who got an even awesomer person to narrate.

It takes pretty awesome devs these days to still get stuff like that.

That's true. Shame it's so underrated nowadays, though.
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Considering the game itself seems to actively discourage completionism for its own sake, I'd say it runs counter to the nature of trophies in the first place. Not everything has to have them.
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Tmk posted...

Except Temmie.


she knows what she did

of course, except for one.
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kingdrake2 posted...

Tmk posted...

Except Temmie.


she knows what she did

of course, except for one.

Go Team Bob.
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Good, trophies/achievements are dumb as hell.
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The23rdMagus posted...

Considering the game itself seems to actively discourage completionism for its own sake, I'd say it runs counter to the nature of trophies in the first place. Not everything has to have them.

I dunno, it doesn't feel like the bad ending was actively discouraged, especially when it has an incredibly well-designed and bad-ass final boss, accompanied with one of the most popular final boss themes.

Lonestar2000 posted...

Good, trophies/achievements are dumb as hell.

They're not that bad... It's not like they affect the game or anything.

The23rdMagus posted...

kingdrake2 posted...

Tmk posted...

Except Temmie.


she knows what she did

of course, except for one.

Go Team Bob.

Don't forget the Vulkins. Vulkin did nothing wrong.
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Lonestar2000 posted...

Good, trophies/achievements are dumb as hell.

Why? If you don't care about them then it literally doesn't affect you in any way, however if you're a completionist and enjoy the extra layer then it adds something for you.
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I'm a completionist and usually like to get all the trophies as long as they don't require anything too time consuming (or if the game just isn't worth it).

People with a hate boner for trophies are fucking weirdos man.
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Trophies to me are just a another checklist of things to do if I really get into a game, that's all. Idgaf about score or whatever it's just another way to have fun. Remember fun?
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