Current Events > The one thing that really irks me about "Punch Nazis".

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Gheb
08/15/17 10:44:08 PM
#51:


CanuckCowboy posted...
shockthemonkey posted...
CanuckCowboy posted...
Well if you see Stalin or any comparable modern day commies around feel free to punch them.

Seriously, how hard is this to understand? Oppose fascism in all forms.


Exactly.

It seems way too simple to be beyond the grasp of such a large number of people.

But are you really opposing fascism by punching a random Neo Nazis? What have you actually accomplished? You shouldn't need to hit a Nazi to fight Nazism the philosophy is inherently off-putting to the average person. And to those who aren't repulsed by it, you aren't showing them the error of their ways by punching them. You only feed into their victim complex, further entrenching them in their beliefs.
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#52
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NeoShadowhen
08/15/17 10:46:54 PM
#53:


shockthemonkey posted...
We've been ignoring the white supremacists for a long fucking time and this is what it has led to.


Ignoring them isn't what led to this.
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#54
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wah_wah_wah
08/15/17 10:52:10 PM
#55:


Gheb posted...
CanuckCowboy posted...
shockthemonkey posted...
CanuckCowboy posted...
Well if you see Stalin or any comparable modern day commies around feel free to punch them.

Seriously, how hard is this to understand? Oppose fascism in all forms.


Exactly.

It seems way too simple to be beyond the grasp of such a large number of people.

But are you really opposing fascism by punching a random Neo Nazis? What have you actually accomplished? You shouldn't need to hit a Nazi to fight Nazism the philosophy is inherently off-putting to the average person. And to those who aren't repulsed by it, you aren't showing them the error of their ways by punching them. You only feed into their victim complex, further entrenching them in their beliefs.

Nazis shouldn't burn Jews. It is funny you spend even a second on this when Nazis literally want to kill people that don't look like them. Well, more sad really.
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Gheb
08/15/17 10:55:01 PM
#56:


No one says ignore them. By means, call a Nazi out. Let them know their shit isn't okay. Tell the people who know the Nazi that they are a Nazi. Let their emloyer know. But don't hit them it literally does nothing.
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wah_wah_wah
08/15/17 10:56:34 PM
#57:


Gheb posted...
No one says ignore them. By means, call a Nazi out. Let them know their shit isn't okay. Tell the people who know the Nazi that they are a Nazi. Let their emloyer know. But don't hit them it literally does nothing.

If someone is going to tell another person they are going to fucking murder them, then yeah, I don't think at that point you are obligated to simply wait until they do. You have a right to self-defense and you are reasonably threatened at that point.
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NeoShadowhen
08/15/17 10:58:04 PM
#58:


shockthemonkey posted...
NeoShadowhen posted...
shockthemonkey posted...
We've been ignoring the white supremacists for a long fucking time and this is what it has led to.


Ignoring them isn't what led to this.

Ignoring them is exactly what led to this. The bullshit idea that calling out people for being racist sacks of shit perpetuates Nazism is fucking ridiculous. Don't defend white supremacists. Don't pretend they're just an opposing opinion. Treat them like they are - worthless sacks of shit who choose to believe in a fucked up ideology because they're shitty human beings.


Calling them out is ideal. Destroy their arguments at every turn.

Randomly assaulting them and participating in an escalation of violence over months of protests is what led to this.

Maybe you just started paying attention.

This has been going on for awhile. A year ago, some protesters and counter-protesters clashed. Some punches were thrown. Next time, more people who were looking for a fight turned up. Then it happened again, some rocks were thrown. In response, they started wearing helmets. Then they started bringing shields. Someone used a stick. Next time they all had sticks. Pepper spray worked well. Next time they all brought it.

What happened on Saturday was an inevitability. It was only a matter of time before someone was killed.
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thompsontalker7
08/15/17 10:58:46 PM
#59:


CanuckCowboy posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
Remember when everyone fucking hated Nazis? Why are there people trying to ruin this?


Seriously.

When did fuck Nazis stop being a super simple black and white issue?

I shouldve used cut and dry. Oh well.


Probably when people translated actual neo-nazi/white supremacists into "whoever disagrees with me politically".

Lumping people together is highly hypocritical and reminiscent of what Nazis did. So moderate I'll continue to remain.
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chill02
08/15/17 10:59:55 PM
#60:


TC likes to punch women
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Gheb
08/15/17 11:00:03 PM
#61:


wah_wah_wah posted...
Gheb posted...
CanuckCowboy posted...
shockthemonkey posted...
CanuckCowboy posted...
Well if you see Stalin or any comparable modern day commies around feel free to punch them.

Seriously, how hard is this to understand? Oppose fascism in all forms.


Exactly.

It seems way too simple to be beyond the grasp of such a large number of people.

But are you really opposing fascism by punching a random Neo Nazis? What have you actually accomplished? You shouldn't need to hit a Nazi to fight Nazism the philosophy is inherently off-putting to the average person. And to those who aren't repulsed by it, you aren't showing them the error of their ways by punching them. You only feed into their victim complex, further entrenching them in their beliefs.

Nazis shouldn't burn Jews. It is funny you spend even a second on this when Nazis literally want to kill people that don't look like them. Well, more sad really.

Please point to a single post I have literally ever made that has said anything positive about Nazism, fascism, or the like.

All I'm saying is don't commit assault.
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UnholyMudcrab
08/15/17 11:00:11 PM
#62:


Zikten posted...
Few people know this but it was violence against Nazis that led to them taking power. They were a minor party with no power in the beginning. Then German communists started attacking them in the streets and beating them up. This empowered the Nazis and gave them something to fight for. Soon after they were in charge. If communists had just left the early Nazis alone, they may never have taken power. We should be ignoring Nazis not feeding them attention and giving them excuses to fight

The Nazis came to power because of anger at the Weimar government and because of the Great Depression, not because they were the targets of the communists.
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Zikten
08/15/17 11:00:19 PM
#63:


NeoShadowhen posted...
shockthemonkey posted...
NeoShadowhen posted...
shockthemonkey posted...
We've been ignoring the white supremacists for a long fucking time and this is what it has led to.


Ignoring them isn't what led to this.

Ignoring them is exactly what led to this. The bullshit idea that calling out people for being racist sacks of shit perpetuates Nazism is fucking ridiculous. Don't defend white supremacists. Don't pretend they're just an opposing opinion. Treat them like they are - worthless sacks of shit who choose to believe in a fucked up ideology because they're shitty human beings.


Calling them out is ideal. Destroy their arguments at every turn.

Randomly assaulting them and participating in an escalation of violence over months of protests is what led to this.

Maybe you just started paying attention.

This has been going on for awhile. A year ago, some protesters and counter-protesters clashed. Some punches were thrown. Next time, more people who were looking for a fight turned up. Then it happened again, some rocks were thrown. In response, they started wearing helmets. Then they started bringing shields. Someone used a stick. Next time they all had sticks. Pepper spray worked well. Next time they all brought it.

What happened on Saturday was an inevitability. It was only a matter of time before someone was killed.

Thank you. I was trying to explain this to someone a couple days ago and they called me an idiot. I think some people just don't want to accept that their side played a part too. I know Trump said it and people are mad but it's true
It's not black and white. There are evil liberals too
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Kaname_Madoka
08/15/17 11:01:23 PM
#64:


"im going to murder these people"

*gets punched*


seems fair to me
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#65
Post #65 was unavailable or deleted.
thompsontalker7
08/15/17 11:03:13 PM
#66:


RoadsterUFO posted...
Why isn't Communism held to the same horror standards as Nazism despite having killed more people? Serious question.


Because people are more unconsciously afraid of Russia because they're foreign, as opposed to Neo-Nazis and white supremacists who are domestic. No one wants to wrong something when they're not sure of what they're capable of. People are conditioned to believe in comparison that Neo-Nazis are outnumbered, and therefore outclasses.
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Kaname_Madoka
08/15/17 11:03:36 PM
#67:


RoadsterUFO posted...
Why isn't Communism held to the same horror standards as Nazism despite having killed more people? Serious question.

theres a rather large fundamental difference between "non-whites need to be killed" and "money shouldnt exist"

now, im no communist, but dont play dumb and pretend those are the exact same thing.
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NeoShadowhen
08/15/17 11:05:19 PM
#68:


Kaname_Madoka posted...
"im going to murder these people"

*gets punched*


seems fair to me


Except, al you've accomplished is reinforced their beliefs and given them a victim narrative to rally behind. And escalated the violence.

Talk to them. Debate them. Argue with them. Try to get them for the error of their ways.

If you truly believe they are beyond any kind of redemption, have exhausted all avenues of diplomacy and you cannot coexist, there is only option. Is that where you are?
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metralo
08/15/17 11:06:38 PM
#69:


Zikten posted...
There are evil liberals too

lol. no.
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Kaname_Madoka
08/15/17 11:08:03 PM
#70:


NeoShadowhen posted...
Kaname_Madoka posted...
"im going to murder these people"

*gets punched*


seems fair to me


Except, al you've accomplished is reinforced their beliefs and given them a victim narrative to rally behind. And escalated the violence.

Talk to them. Debate them. Argue with them. Try to get them for the error of their ways.

If you truly believe they are beyond any kind of redemption, have exhausted all avenues of diplomacy and you cannot coexist, there is only option. Is that where you are?

except im not punching any nazis?

i stay far away from that crap

im just saying i dont give a shit if some nazi screaming death threats gets punched
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wah_wah_wah
08/15/17 11:08:06 PM
#71:


RoadsterUFO posted...
Why isn't Communism held to the same horror standards as Nazism despite having killed more people? Serious question.

Ignoring any discussion of what a "horror standard" even is for a second, I don't think anyone thinks that Stalinist style communism was not horrifying besides unreconstructed Stalinists which are now shitting their Zhongshan suits in nursing homes. Raw number of deaths is a very poor determiner over which represented the greatest danger to world security and Western ideals.
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Anteaterking
08/15/17 11:09:38 PM
#72:


NeoShadowhen posted...
Kaname_Madoka posted...
"im going to murder these people"

*gets punched*


seems fair to me


Except, al you've accomplished is reinforced their beliefs and given them a victim narrative to rally behind. And escalated the violence.

Talk to them. Debate them. Argue with them. Try to get them for the error of their ways.

If you truly believe they are beyond any kind of redemption, have exhausted all avenues of diplomacy and you cannot coexist, there is only option. Is that where you are?


This is sure giving a lot of leeway to people who would support your murder based off of your skin color.
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NeoShadowhen
08/15/17 11:10:08 PM
#73:


Kaname_Madoka posted...
NeoShadowhen posted...
Kaname_Madoka posted...
"im going to murder these people"

*gets punched*


seems fair to me


Except, al you've accomplished is reinforced their beliefs and given them a victim narrative to rally behind. And escalated the violence.

Talk to them. Debate them. Argue with them. Try to get them for the error of their ways.

If you truly believe they are beyond any kind of redemption, have exhausted all avenues of diplomacy and you cannot coexist, there is only option. Is that where you are?

except im not punching any nazis?

i stay far away from that crap

im just saying i dont give a shit if some nazi screaming death threats gets punched


You should. Unless you likewise don't give a shit if more people die.
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Kaname_Madoka
08/15/17 11:10:51 PM
#74:


i gotta say that the way zikky-boy types when hes angry about nazis being treated poorly is really funny
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Kaname_Madoka
08/15/17 11:11:16 PM
#75:


NeoShadowhen posted...
Kaname_Madoka posted...
NeoShadowhen posted...
Kaname_Madoka posted...
"im going to murder these people"

*gets punched*


seems fair to me


Except, al you've accomplished is reinforced their beliefs and given them a victim narrative to rally behind. And escalated the violence.

Talk to them. Debate them. Argue with them. Try to get them for the error of their ways.

If you truly believe they are beyond any kind of redemption, have exhausted all avenues of diplomacy and you cannot coexist, there is only option. Is that where you are?

except im not punching any nazis?

i stay far away from that crap

im just saying i dont give a shit if some nazi screaming death threats gets punched


You should. Unless you likewise don't give a shit if more people die.

why should someone allow people to give them death threats lmfao
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NeoShadowhen
08/15/17 11:11:40 PM
#76:


Anteaterking posted...
NeoShadowhen posted...
Kaname_Madoka posted...
"im going to murder these people"

*gets punched*


seems fair to me


Except, al you've accomplished is reinforced their beliefs and given them a victim narrative to rally behind. And escalated the violence.

Talk to them. Debate them. Argue with them. Try to get them for the error of their ways.

If you truly believe they are beyond any kind of redemption, have exhausted all avenues of diplomacy and you cannot coexist, there is only option. Is that where you are?


This is sure giving a lot of leeway to people who would support your murder based off of your skin color.


So you agree that punching is a counterproductive act that doesn't even rise to level of a half-measure?
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Kaname_Madoka
08/15/17 11:12:52 PM
#77:


NeoShadowhen posted...
rise to level of a half-measure?

what are you talking about
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thompsontalker7
08/15/17 11:14:30 PM
#78:


The problem with this whole fucking thing is that it's a knee-jerk reaction to a long-standing problem. Punching Nazis (and to an extent anyone who you suspect is a Nazi) will not have any long-term effects and is mostly for cathartic bleeding hearts. For all the non-violent examples the left have tried to present themselves as being, this is a total reversal of that demonstration, and going "bu-but he deserved it" only makes you a hypocrite, and damn if there aren't quite a few on both sides.
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Anteaterking
08/15/17 11:14:57 PM
#79:


NeoShadowhen posted...
So you agree that punching is a counterproductive act that doesn't even rise to level of a half-measure?


No?

I think you are misinterpreting the goals of many people who say "Punch Nazis". It's not some thought that with enough punches you'll convince them that their viewpoint is wrong.
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NeoShadowhen
08/15/17 11:16:16 PM
#80:


Anteaterking posted...
NeoShadowhen posted...
So you agree that punching is a counterproductive act that doesn't even rise to level of a half-measure?


No?

I think you are misinterpreting the goals of many people who say "Punch Nazis". It's not some thought that with enough punches you'll convince them that their viewpoint is wrong.


So what is the goal?
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#81
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Anteaterking
08/15/17 11:20:19 PM
#82:


NeoShadowhen posted...
Anteaterking posted...
NeoShadowhen posted...
So you agree that punching is a counterproductive act that doesn't even rise to level of a half-measure?


No?

I think you are misinterpreting the goals of many people who say "Punch Nazis". It's not some thought that with enough punches you'll convince them that their viewpoint is wrong.


So what is the goal?


I think the goal of the antifas is to make neo-nazis/white supremacists/etc. not feel safe spreading their hate speech.
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NeoShadowhen
08/15/17 11:21:29 PM
#83:


shockthemonkey posted...
NeoShadowhen posted...
shockthemonkey posted...
NeoShadowhen posted...
shockthemonkey posted...
We've been ignoring the white supremacists for a long fucking time and this is what it has led to.


Ignoring them isn't what led to this.

Ignoring them is exactly what led to this. The bullshit idea that calling out people for being racist sacks of shit perpetuates Nazism is fucking ridiculous. Don't defend white supremacists. Don't pretend they're just an opposing opinion. Treat them like they are - worthless sacks of shit who choose to believe in a fucked up ideology because they're shitty human beings.


Calling them out is ideal. Destroy their arguments at every turn.

Randomly assaulting them and participating in an escalation of violence over months of protests is what led to this.

Maybe you just started paying attention.

This has been going on for awhile. A year ago, some protesters and counter-protesters clashed. Some punches were thrown. Next time, more people who were looking for a fight turned up. Then it happened again, some rocks were thrown. In response, they started wearing helmets. Then they started bringing shields. Someone used a stick. Next time they all had sticks. Pepper spray worked well. Next time they all brought it.

What happened on Saturday was an inevitability. It was only a matter of time before someone was killed.

All of this is from years of ignoring the problem of white supremacy in America. When the Nazis lost WWII, Germany disavowed them, destroyed any chance they had at a legacy, and dismantled any attempt at reviving them. The same has not happened in America with white supremacists. The Republican Party has catered towards them since end of the Dixiecrats and allowed them to flourish as a way of getting votes.

Ignoring the problem is what brings us to where things are now, where BLM advocating for equality is seen as a threat, where our current president gained political prominence by denying the legitimacy of our first black president, where white supremacists are coming out and saying the president understands them.

Ignoring this shit is the problem.


Ah. I thought you meant that ignoring them is what led to the current level of violence. I agree with you that the reason it's an issue at all is due to ignoring them. My argument had to do with the recent escalation in violence. Sorry if I came off as condescending. It's crazy on here today.
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NeoShadowhen
08/15/17 11:23:58 PM
#84:


Anteaterking posted...
NeoShadowhen posted...
Anteaterking posted...
NeoShadowhen posted...
So you agree that punching is a counterproductive act that doesn't even rise to level of a half-measure?


No?

I think you are misinterpreting the goals of many people who say "Punch Nazis". It's not some thought that with enough punches you'll convince them that their viewpoint is wrong.


So what is the goal?


I think the goal of the antifas is to make neo-nazis/white supremacists/etc. not feel safe spreading their hate speech.


Well they fucked that up. They just caused them to be more prepared to meet violence with violence. Which was wildly predictable.
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Bad_Mojo
08/15/17 11:26:49 PM
#85:


I'm okay with punching Nazis and White Supremacists, but I'm also in favor in punching these radical BLM and ANTIFA people that attack people and burn things down.

Both sides need to be beaten down.
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NeoShadowhen
08/15/17 11:29:50 PM
#86:


Bad_Mojo posted...
I'm okay with punching Nazis and White Supremacists, but I'm also in favor in punching these radical BLM and ANTIFA people that attack people and burn things down.

Both sides need to be beaten down.


I give up. The country is fucked, goodnight everyone.
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Anteaterking
08/15/17 11:29:58 PM
#87:


NeoShadowhen posted...
Well they f***ed that up. They just caused them to be more prepared to meet violence with violence. Which was wildly predictable.


To be clear, most of the people who subscribe to Neo Nazi rhetoric are already the types of people who carry around weapons.

In this specific instance, the antifas' stated goals in Charlottesville were to protect the counter-protesters. Multiple of the clergy members and others claimed that they wouldn't have survived the weekend without them being there to defend them.

You can go "Lol but someone still died so they failed" all you want, but I think it's foolish to believe that things would have just gone peachy if they weren't there.
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Bad_Mojo
08/15/17 11:34:36 PM
#89:


shockthemonkey posted...
Can everyone stop acting like neo Nazis and white supremacists are inherently nice people who only resort to violence because of mean groups like antifa? Cuz that's fucking dumb as hell.


It is. But it's also true for Antifa since they do all sorts of terrible shit too. Both sides do, they're both fucking terrible people.
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wah_wah_wah
08/15/17 11:40:11 PM
#90:


Bad_Mojo posted...
shockthemonkey posted...
Can everyone stop acting like neo Nazis and white supremacists are inherently nice people who only resort to violence because of mean groups like antifa? Cuz that's fucking dumb as hell.


It is. But it's also true for Antifa since they do all sorts of terrible shit too. Both sides do, they're both fucking terrible people.

Notice whenever someone says "both sides are violent" both sides are not equally offended. One is quite comfortable with their portrayal as murderous, and the other not. That probably says something about how all of this moral equivalence is complete horse shit.
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NeoShadowhen
08/15/17 11:40:46 PM
#91:


Anteaterking posted...
NeoShadowhen posted...
Well they f***ed that up. They just caused them to be more prepared to meet violence with violence. Which was wildly predictable.


To be clear, most of the people who subscribe to Neo Nazi rhetoric are already the types of people who carry around weapons.

In this specific instance, the antifas' stated goals in Charlottesville were to protect the counter-protesters. Multiple of the clergy members and others claimed that they wouldn't have survived the weekend without them being there to defend them.

You can go "Lol but someone still died so they failed" all you want, but I think it's foolish to believe that things would have just gone peachy if they weren't there.


My whole point is that by the time last Saturday rolled around it was too late. This has been building up for a year, and there's no going back at this point. I don't think what happened last weekend would have happened a year ago. its because of the escalation of violence, slowly over time, that brought us to the point we are at now where we have a fatality. I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner. There is a lot of blame to go around, but I don't think there's any question that the people who promoted the "punch a nazi" rhetoric have done nothing but make the situation worse.
They aren't the worst offenders, and I'd definitely put them below anyone responsible for the police standing down so these brawls could occur.
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Zeeak4444
08/15/17 11:49:03 PM
#92:


ScazarMeltex posted...
gamer167 posted...
RebelElite791 posted...
gamer167 posted...
RebelElite791 posted...
Did you see how your pals at the rally looked? A bunch of alternately overweight old fucks and scrawny dockers-wearing dorks.


I'm not saying either side knows how to fight.

I just don't like that they're making memes and hashtags out of violence, I think the majority have no idea what violence truly is.

Violence like the Nazis of the 40s committed?

Yes, the violence perpetuated by a group of people 80 years ago which was infinitely worse than anything committed by a relatively small group of old and overweight modern day copycats.


Anyone who wants to adopt the ideology and symbolism of a group of people who used to do experiments on human beings deserve whatever they get. Experiments like putting people in freezing water until they were pretty much dead to then see what were the most effective ways of reviving them (even if the victim was successfully revived they were then shot). Or putting people in a pressure chamber and then experimenting on all the various things that come with rapid/gradual changes of air pressure and it's effect on the human body.


Man, I'm on your side 100% but the we have done so much fucking worse dude.

Not even going into the military we literally gave labotomys to people we didn't want to deal with... just stick to the murder and camps.

Edit: maybe not worse but for sure on par.
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Zikten
08/16/17 7:49:09 AM
#93:


metralo posted...
Zikten posted...
There are evil liberals too

lol. no.

Democrats aren't all pure good angels. Humans are humans no matter their political party
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Zikten
08/16/17 7:49:50 AM
#94:


Kaname_Madoka posted...
i gotta say that the way zikky-boy types when hes angry about nazis being treated poorly is really funny

That's not what I am angry about
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gunplagirl
08/16/17 8:01:02 AM
#95:


NeoShadowhen posted...
Anteaterking posted...
NeoShadowhen posted...
So you agree that punching is a counterproductive act that doesn't even rise to level of a half-measure?


No?

I think you are misinterpreting the goals of many people who say "Punch Nazis". It's not some thought that with enough punches you'll convince them that their viewpoint is wrong.


So what is the goal?

The goal is 100 nazee scalps. Each.

And business is a-booming.
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