Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 122: Fuck (David) Duke

(+) Yeah! (+)

Kinglicious posted...

For some reason you and others seem to think that saying something should exist means i also have to like it - that's completely incorrect and entirety different

Please explain how the world would be worse off if no one believed in white supremacy. This is the part of your argument that no one else here seems to understand.
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This topic is zooming. I guess it is from the great headline and all the people who have me favorited so they came out of the woodworks to post. =P
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Anyone else who does understand feel free to chime in too
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Corrik posted...

This topic is zooming. I guess it is from the great headline and all the people who have me favorited so they came out of the woodworks to post. =P

Might have to have you keep making the topics if Ulti wants to participate and also block everyone who hates him
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I mean yeah Ulti in fairness?

You literally just tried to say people here approve of someone being shot because "politics".... despite a lack of proof. You can't expect people to not react poorly to that. People don't like being falsely accused.
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White Supremacy is no more defensible than Black Power is. They are both racist views which have no place in the world today. I find absolutely no problems with nationalism. And, I believe everyone should be a nationalist and patriot of their nation.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

Tonight is the first time I'm actually looking forward to The Alex Jones Show. Not to take it seriously, but to hear what kind of rank idiocy the guy is going to come up with.

Let me know if he says anything better than forgetting stuff about his kids because he had a big bowl of chili for lunch.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Corrik posted...

This topic is zooming. I guess it is from the great headline and all the people who have me favorited so they came out of the woodworks to post. =P

Might have to have you keep making the topics if Ulti wants to participate and also block everyone who hates him

There is quite a few people here posting who supposedly have me on ignore, including Ulti.
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There is a stark difference between patriotism and nationalism.
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Corrik posted...

And, I believe everyone should be a nationalist and patriot of their nation.

...why?
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FFDragon posted...

There is a stark difference between patriotism and nationalism.

They go hand in hand.
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Nationalism is a range of political, social, and economic systems characterised by promoting the interests of a particular nation, particularly with the aim of gaining and maintaining self-governance, or full sovereignty, over the group's homeland. The political ideology therefore holds that a nation should govern itself, free from unwanted outside interference, and is linked to the concept of self-determination. Nationalism is further oriented towards developing and maintaining a national identity based on shared characteristics such as culture, language, race, religion, political goals or a belief in a common ancestry.[1][2] Nationalism therefore seeks to preserve the nation's culture. It often also involves a sense of pride in the nation's achievements, and is closely linked to the concept of patriotism. In these terms, nationalism can be considered positive or negative. In some cases, nationalism referred to the belief that a nation should be able to control the government and all means of production.[3]
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FFDragon posted...

UltimaterializerX posted...

Tonight is the first time I'm actually looking forward to The Alex Jones Show. Not to take it seriously, but to hear what kind of rank idiocy the guy is going to come up with.

Let me know if he says anything better than forgetting stuff about his kids because he had a big bowl of chili for lunch.

Last I heard, Jones thinks this is actually a leftist conspiracy. The whole rally was actually by the left to make the right look bad.
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Corrik posted...

FFDragon posted...

There is a stark difference between patriotism and nationalism.

They go hand in hand.

http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/an-important-distinction
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https://twitter.com/jameeljaffer/status/896830438479724544

I really think this statement about free speech is perfect
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UltimaterializerX posted...

Dark Young Link posted...

I mean yeah Ulti in fairness?

You literally just tried to say people here approve of someone being shot because "politics".... despite a lack of proof. You can't expect people to not react poorly to that. People don't like being falsely accused.

It's like people think it never happened if it wasn't posted in this topic. I remember it clear as day in the actual topic someone made about the event.

And I'm asking "Who?". Because I absolutely do not remember that, and I don't see myself being silent about someone saying "Hey, it's a good thing someone was shot because they're politically different than me!".

If you remember it clear as day, then why are you being all vague about it? "You people" just seems suspect.
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Corrik posted...

Nationalism is further oriented towards developing and maintaining a national identity based on shared characteristics such as culture, language, race, religion, political goals or a belief in a common ancestry.[

You believe this about America in particular?
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You've remembered a lot of things clear as day, Ulti.
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Personally, I see patriotism as a strong belief in the ideals of a nation, and nationalism as a strong belief that the nation itself can do no wrong.

Like, someone who condemns the Trail of Tears could very easily still be a Patriot, but they probably wouldn't be an American Nationalist.

Other definitions may vary.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Please explain how the world would be worse off if no one believed in white supremacy. This is the part of your argument that no one else here seems to understand.

Unfortunately I'll have to get back to you later, am pretty late to a birthday thing. Wanted to comment on some other stuff but am low on time so just went with the direct stuff about me. Generally the answer will be completely in the realm of ideas and philosophy, not people. People don't come up at all for that. At a base level, a defense for white supremacy would be the same defense for any ideas like this, including equality. Moral arguments begin after that. Still not about people though, just the idea itself being moral, amoral, or immoral.

And even if you don't understand it, that's fine. That doesn't mean you should assume that's my view as a person. That's a constant fight I've had with way too many of you.
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Kinglicious posted...

Correct, they should. As should black supremacists, extreme sexist views, etc. All these things are immoral but they should all exist.

Why should they exist??

What the hell does this mean? Do you mean they should be allowed or that they are somehow necessary?
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SupremeZero posted...

Last I heard, Jones thinks this is actually a leftist conspiracy. The whole rally was actually by the left to make the right look bad.

Why would the left need to do that, when they have Alex Jones to make them look bad on their own?

...unless... OH SHIT! Alex Jones is a secret Liberal running the conspiracy behind the scenes the whole time!!! Mind = Blown!!!
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Jakyl25 posted...

Corrik posted...

Nationalism is further oriented towards developing and maintaining a national identity based on shared characteristics such as culture, language, race, religion, political goals or a belief in a common ancestry.[

You believe this about America in particular?

Yes. And, before you comment. America's culture is by nature a mix of cultures.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Personally, I see patriotism as a strong belief in the ideals of a nation, and nationalism as a strong belief that the nation itself can do no wrong.

Like, someone who condemns the Trail of Tears could very easily still be a Patriot, but they probably wouldn't be an American Nationalist.

Other definitions may vary.

I like Orwell's definition:

Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them, since two different and even opposing ideas are involved. By ‘patriotism’ I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality.

A nationalist is one who thinks solely, or mainly, in terms of competitive prestige. He may be a positive or a negative nationalist — that is, he may use his mental energy either in boosting or in denigrating — but at any rate his thoughts always turn on victories, defeats, triumphs and humiliations. He sees history, especially contemporary history, as the endless rise and decline of great power units, and every event that happens seems to him a demonstration that his own side is on the upgrade and some hated rival is on the downgrade.

The nationalist does not go on the principle of simply ganging up with the strongest side. On the contrary, having picked his side, he persuades himself that it is the strongest, and is able to stick to his belief even when the facts are overwhelmingly against him. Nationalism is power-hunger tempered by self-deception. Every nationalist is capable of the most flagrant dishonesty, but he is also — since he is conscious of serving something bigger than himself — unshakeably certain of being in the right.

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Jakyl25 posted...

Anyone else who does understand feel free to chime in too

I'll chime in for the inverse. Literally just walls and walls of nonsense from him, or at least a VERY misguided view of the world.

Honestly all the pride stuff is just BS. Looks to me like Wang is playing it safe in case the White Nationalists take over the country one day and he wants to make sure his internet history looks good so be doesn't get strung up.
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Kinglicious posted...

Generally the answer will be completely in the realm of ideas and philosophy, not people.

I understand you may not be able to respond for awhile, but I still have to ask so I don't forget.

Philosophically, do you believe that all ideas have merit? If so, why?
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UltimaterializerX posted...

It's like people think it never happened if it wasn't posted in this topic. I remember it clear as day in the actual topic someone made about the event.

...then why did you delete your post? or did you get modded?

either way, why would you bring that up? it's entirely possible that some leftist troll said something like that but you were arguing with LotM and he most definitely didn't say that. it was just a stupid thing to bring up, doesn't matter if it happened here, elsewhere or not at all.
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Honestly I never quite got "patriotism". Granted that may be because I mostly see it as nationalism in disguise. But the whole "My country is the best because it's my country" just doesn't jive with me. If you want a great country, you work to make it great. It's not great just because you were born in it.


That also goes with racial pride. Why be proud that your mother got knocked up with someone, carried you for 9 months, and squeezed you out? Be proud of your accomplishments, not what happened to you. Not where you were born.

Additionally, wanting to make your country better means looking at the bad parts and wanting to make it better. Not telling people "Love us or leave us!". Not pointing at other countries and going "But what about THEIR problems?!". You acknowledge the flaws, and you focus on what you can do to make things better.


Fuck "My country right or wrong".
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UltimaterializerX posted...

Dark Young Link posted...

I mean yeah Ulti in fairness?

You literally just tried to say people here approve of someone being shot because "politics".... despite a lack of proof. You can't expect people to not react poorly to that. People don't like being falsely accused.

It's like people think it never happened if it wasn't posted in this topic. I remember it clear as day in the actual topic someone made about the event.

If you remember it clear as day, then you could definitely remember who it actually was instead of being vague and asking Lasa to check, right?
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Like, I consider myself a patriot, having served in the Air Force.

But I would not consider myself a nationalist by any means.
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Corrik posted...

Yes. And, before you comment. America's culture is by nature a mix of cultures.

I call bullshit on this statement on behalf of @Vlado
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Nationalists do not have to want to take over others. They have to want to preserve their nation and have a strong nation.

Nationalism used to define power grabs is stretching the definition from its actual intent.
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The police are apparently using tear gas.




....on the counter protesters.



*sigh*
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Corrik posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Corrik posted...

Nationalism is further oriented towards developing and maintaining a national identity based on shared characteristics such as culture, language, race, religion, political goals or a belief in a common ancestry.[

You believe this about America in particular?

Yes. And, before you comment. America's culture is by nature a mix of cultures.

That's honestly interesting. I've never seen it phrased that way.

Like I 100% agree that one the ideals of America as a nation are the ideas written on the Statue of Liberty poem, I've just never seen it argued that such a mix of cultures could itself be classifed as a culture in and of itself.

I'll have to think on that
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StealThisSheen posted...

If you remember it clear as day, then you could definitely remember who it actually was instead of being vague and asking Lasa to check, right?

uh, if it happened in a topic separate from the politics containment topics i probably haven't saved it. i don't save every single B8 topic - even i'm not THAT obsessive >_>

edit: oh wait, i misread what you said. nevermind.
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Can you please not ping Vlado?

Someone might quote him.
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Dark Young Link posted...

Honestly I never quite got "patriotism". Granted that may be because I mostly see it as nationalism in disguise. But the whole "My country is the best because it's my country" just doesn't jive with me.

I don't think it has to necessarily be a ranking, though for sure it has come to that for many ultra-patriots.

I believe that there are many things about America that are great, and thus our country is great. That doesn't mean that there aren't other countries that aren't also great in their own unique ways. It's pointless to get in a debate about whether America is better than New Zealand.
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Because you live in the internet age Dyl. Back then everyone lefitimately thought they were the best nation. Now, maybe 1-3 countries can even make them claim without being laughed away. Nationalism was a bigger deal back when it could be legitimately argued due to a lack of facts. We happen to be one of those 1-3 however.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

The "counter protestors" are far-left protestors.

Opposing Nazis is for the "far left"?

I admit that I don't pay attention to Antifa, but I'm pretty sure many of the counter protestors were just protesting peacefully.
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Dark Young Link posted...

UltimaterializerX posted...

The "counter protestors" are far-left protestors.

Opposing Nazis is for the "far left"?

I admit that I don't pay attention to Antifa, but I'm pretty sure many of the counter protestors were just protesting peacefully.

I dunno who they are but every day counter protestors usually aren't amassing from out of state locations. And, I base that off of the counter protesting woman was from Ohio.
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Perhaps.

But then again it's not every day Nazis become brave enough to openly march alongside "Confederates". Armed, mind you.
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Why does it even matter what the counter-protesters are? Until they are doing things like running people down with cars, there's not really any point to bring it up. It's Ulti deflecting like he usually does, since every time the right does something wrong, he absolutely has to "Well, the left did this!"

Like, case in point: "You guys were for the guy getting shot!" (which still has no evidence of happening despite Ulti remembering it "clear as day")

There's no point to actually bring it into intelligent conversation.
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In fairness some of the shit antifa's done is gross also. But this was a blatantly peaceful counter protest that someone terrorised, if it would've turned violent or not later is not only doubtful but irrelevant.

But I guess the topic would've stagnated if everyone had gone yeah those Nazis suck, fuck those guys, or something... idk.
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