Current Events > Metal Gear Solid should've ended at 4 >_>

(+) Yeah! (+)

Zero felt that there needed to be a decoy BB because the world and his enemies would have their eye on him, and that whatever forces he was putting together were a target.

we initially saw this with the attack on MB, and finally the vocal parasites thing that affected the Diamond Dogs.

to accomplish his goals BB needed some kinda OH thing, but it would always be under threat. and he went along with the whole plan because of the things he went through.

but do I feel that Venom Shake was needed? maybe. like, while BB was doing what he was doing, Venom not only served as a decoy, but also someone who helped BB's legend grow. you could tell that he had some charisma, as she was able to attract people like Miller and Quiet to his side, and he was also able to do amazing things like take down the Metal Gear and SF

the above poster said it better than I did, though.
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1. Zanzibar Land wasn't a thing until after the fall of Outer Heaven.


2. Venom Snake was still a bad decoy because the real Big Bosses exploits are more well known in the lore than Venom Snakes. This is the entire problem with the retcon and why it doesn't make sense with how it is presented.

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Once again, the twist itself doesn't make much sense unless you think of it as Zero wanted Venom Snake to be a decoy where as Big Boss didn't give a fuck and just let him run around and do his thing to help him.

In fact, the entire twist would make more sense if it was Big Boss that was the decoy while Venom Snake is building up Outer Heaven. And that is probably the way you should view it since everything in the game outside of Ocelots speech supports this.

In the end, I think it is obvious that the point of the twist was to make the player Big Boss more than it was to explain any inconsistencies in the plot or anything.
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D-Lo_BrownTown posted...

1. Zanzibar Land wasn't a thing until after the fall of Outer Heaven.


2. Venom Snake was still a bad decoy because the real Big Bosses exploits are more well known in the lore than Venom Snakes. This is the entire problem with the retcon and why it doesn't make sense with how it is presented.

I didn't bring up Venom's feats as some comparison to BB's but as an addition to them

his seemingly able to accomplish these amazing things while really doing whatever it was he was involved in added to his image as some kinda mythical figure of the battlefield
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The series ended for me after 4. That terrible ending and explanation for everything killed my interest in the series and any Kojima game.

Over 10 years later and I still remember that disappointment after watching that hour and a half cutscene at the end. The online was terrific though.
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But Big Bosses exploits had already made him a mythical figure long before the introduction of Venom Snake. Venom Snake wasn't needed for that when you have everything that happened in MGS3, Portable Ops and Peace Walker.

And going off established lore, Venom Snake himself doesn't seem to have been a good decoy since his feats are never brought up anywhere else in the series. If his entire purpose was to take eyes off Big Boss, why is it that in the entire series all anyone talks about is the singular Big Bosses mercenary history and not the Diamond Dogs or anything else?

Why was Venom Snake needed at all?
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That really is the problem with it.

Honestly, they needed to make it clear that Venom Snake was the *only* Big Boss or something. As it is you have Venom Snake and Diamond Dogs doing something, and then Big Boss doing all the shit he was known for in the rest of the series (fighting with Grey Fox, saving Sniper Wolf, etc. etc.)

It feels like it was a half measure because Kojima didn't want to completely invalidate Big Boss but at the same time wanted Venom Snake to be important and it just muddles the whole thing up.
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PW and Rising were unnecessary but the best games in the series since 1 so what does it matter if they were unnecessary?

I mean video games are unnecessary to begin with.
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PW is the worst in the series
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cjsdowg posted...

You misspelled 3 (lol)

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D-Lo_BrownTown posted...

But Big Bosses exploits had already made him a mythical figure long before the introduction of Venom Snake. Venom Snake wasn't needed for that when you have everything that happened in MGS3, Portable Ops and Peace Walker.

And going off established lore, Venom Snake himself doesn't seem to have been a good decoy since his feats are never brought up anywhere else in the series. If his entire purpose was to take eyes off Big Boss, why is it that in the entire series all anyone talks about is the singular Big Bosses mercenary history and not the Diamond Dogs or anything else?

Why was Venom Snake needed at all?

I said that it added to the image.

and in relation to established lore, pre-MGSVVenom's character was to explain why BB survived the end of MG.

but MGSV added more to that. we didn't know about Skull Face, XOF, The Diamond Dogs, etc.

real world explanation is that Kojima made these characters, entities, and so on, for the game.

an in-universe explanation could be that the Patriots manipulated info to expunge them from history
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MGS4 is outright a way worse game than V. Nothing that you ever do in V, regardless of how much you want to cry about the story being heavily relegated to tapes, is anywhere near as tedious as a lot of segements in 4.

And another thing, the story in 5 even in its partially unfinished state is still better than the insane fanfiction-tier "let's try to tie everything that ever happened in the series together in one gigantic nonsensical mess!!!" that was 4. That game is an absolute fucking mess.
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boxington posted...

and in relation to established lore, pre-MGSV Venom's character was to explain why BB survived the end of MG.

And this is so dumb because this was already answered in Metal Gear 2, and even then didn't need an explanation.

This is like us needing a game to explain how liquid survived everything he did in Metal Gear Solid.

Nobody will ever convince me that Venom Snake was a good addition to the lore. It was a completely stupid twist that only fucked things up more than it supposedly answered.
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I've only played 4, Peace Walker, Ground Zeroes (or whatever), and The Phantom Pain. I didn't give a fuck about the story, characters, or anything like that. I just really enjoyed the stealth combat and gameplay. So for me 4 was tedious and TPP was a lot of fun with great polished gameplay that I doubt the older games could match.
No idea how it compares to the previous titles though since I haven't played them and I have no comment on the story ending or anything because I had no investment in it and largely blocked all that shit out.
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So I take it it's not worth playing MGS4, but I should just watch it online? Shame, I've been wanting to play it forever but I didn't own a PS3
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I enjoyed MGS4 quite a bit. Act 3 is a bit of a slog but everything else is quality IMO.
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Yeah I liked 4 a lot, tbh.

It's funny and weird that 2 was a story that there was absolutely no way you could write a sequel to, and that this was the intention because HK didn't want to.make the series anymore, and yet they made 4 anyway.

So really I look at it kinda like a "what if" deal, like "what if this one interpretation of 2 was the right one."
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