Current Events > I think I'm gonna go vegan

(+) Yeah! (+)

KiwiTerraRizing posted...

I'm gonna eat more meat to balance it out

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Volkswagen_Bros posted...

I love how whenever the vegan's claims are challenged or contradicted, they throw a hissy fit.

Example?

IrishSpectre_N7 posted...

If you have the willpower, TC, go for it. I think that people saying that one person being vegan doesn't make a difference are missing the point. It's about living in agreement with your own values, and having a fulfilling sense of self.

The problem here is that there are vegans who get carried away about the fact that they have a different way of eating, causing them to have a false sense of superiority over others. People who become vegan with the intention of saving the animals are delusional. That's what they mean by "not making a difference."

The point is that it's okay to be vegan, just don't expect people to treat you like a king/queen because of it.
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MJ_Max posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

I love how whenever the vegan's claims are challenged or contradicted, they throw a hissy fit.

Example?

Case in point, this topic. Newborns or young children raised on a vegan diet usually end up suffering from malnutrition and other aliments. The fact you have to depend on supplements in order to meet some nutritional needs means it's probably not a fulfilling or well-balanced diet.

For goodness sakes, humans weren't meant to survive on an herbivore only diet. Truthfully, it sounds more like you've been brainwashed. The world is cruel, and you becoming a vegan isn't going to make much of a difference. Meat eaters still outweigh vegans by a large, large, large margin.
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"Wait a minute...vegans are people!?"
-Steve from work
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Volkswagen_Bros posted...

MJ_Max posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

I love how whenever the vegan's claims are challenged or contradicted, they throw a hissy fit.

Example?

Case in point, this topic. Newborns or young children raised on a vegan diet usually end up suffering from malnutrition and other aliments. The fact you have to depend on supplements in order to meet some nutritional needs means it's probably not a fulfilling or well-balanced diet.

For goodness sakes, humans weren't meant to survive on an herbivore only diet. Truthfully, it sounds more like you've been brainwashed. The world is cruel, and you becoming a vegan isn't going to make much of a difference. Meat eaters still outweigh vegans by a large, large, large margin.

I might need this.
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Volkswagen_Bros posted...

Newborns or young children raised on a vegan diet usually end up suffering from malnutrition and other aliments.

I am neither of those things.

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

The fact you have to depend on supplements in order to meet some nutritional needs means it's probably not a fulfilling or well-balanced diet.

Which is why you take supplements, which makes it a well-balanced diet.

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

humans weren't meant to survive on an herbivore only diet.

http://jandonline.org/article/S0002-8223%2809%2900700-7/fulltext
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Vegetarianhealth/Pages/Vegandiets.aspx

It's okay to be cruel if everyone else is doing it.

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

The world is cruel, and you becoming a vegan isn't going to make much of a difference. Meat eaters still outweigh vegans by a large, large, large margin.

This is ridiculous, you could say this about any cause in the world you care about changing.

MJ_Max posted...

- preventing animal cruelty

Will never happen. Predators will always hunt their weaker prey for sustenance. It's how biology works.

MJ_Max posted...

This is ridiculous, you could say this about any cause in the world you care about changing.

There will always be a demand for meat. Just because you go vegan doesn't atomically mean animal butchering will come to a halt. It just means more meat for the rest of us, and quite frankly, I like that.

You also said in the OP that you becoming vegan will stop greenhouse gases. Fat chance. Unless you can convince millions of other meat eaters to become vegan, you becoming a vegan isn't going to make a single difference in the current standings of things.

Unless a physician has strictly enforced a vegan diet for health reasons, it boggles my mind why anybody would willingly go vegan as opposed to just vegetarian. I see it as taking an extreme.
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Volkswagen_Bros posted...

it boggles my mind why anybody would willingly go vegan as opposed to just vegetarian

Because dairy products still involve the slaughter and abuse of cows.

MJ_Max posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

it boggles my mind why anybody would willingly go vegan as opposed to just vegetarian

Because dairy products still involve the slaughter and abuse of cows.

You don't kill cows... to get milk and cheese.
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Volkswagen_Bros posted...

Unless you can convince millions of other meat eaters to become vegan, you becoming a vegan isn't going to make a single difference in the current standings of things.

Because I personally have to be the one who convinces millions of people to go vegan? And yet millions of people are vegans, that's the way movements work, and they don't work without individuals.

MJ_Max posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

it boggles my mind why anybody would willingly go vegan as opposed to just vegetarian

Because dairy products still involve the slaughter and abuse of cows.

Why are you acting as if pain in the world doesn't exist?
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StickFigures720 posted...

MJ_Max posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

it boggles my mind why anybody would willingly go vegan as opposed to just vegetarian

Because dairy products still involve the slaughter and abuse of cows.

You don't kill cows... to get milk and cheese.

Right, you just forcefully impregnate the cow every year, rip the calves away from the parent, and slaughter the male ones.

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

Why are you acting as if pain in the world doesn't exist?

Why are you acting as if it's wrong to try to prevent some of that pain when we can?

Can't you see this would be a ridiculous response to many things humans do to prevent pain in the world every day?

what if animals WANT us to eat them? has anyone thought of that?
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My wife is basically vegan and I too eat a plant based diet but every 3 days or so I do eat meat so to each their own.
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What's so wrong with tc choosing for himself to not be involved in certain parts of animal cruelty? Why does he need to defend himself for choosing those limitations on himself?

He gave you the reason why. He said he's not for forcing others, kids, pets, etc on his diet. It's solely a decision he made for himself. In addition, by choosing that diet he's also voting with his wallet what types of foods he wants to see in grocery stores. More vegetarian and vegan options. This is something everyone does in some way.
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There are better ways to help the climate than going vegan.

It doesn't do shit unless a significant proportion of people go vegan. It's not something that slowly chips away at climate change like most other forms. A single person switching over to recycling or an electric car would have a microscopic yet definite impact because it all adds up. In order for veganism to have an impact, there need to be enough people at the same time boycotting animal products for their demand to go down and the industry to downsize. There's nothing to chip away at. Your individual veganism means nothing. If anything at all, it slightly lowers the price of meat and the difference is picked up by other consumers.
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emblem boy posted...

What's so wrong with tc choosing for himself to not be involved in certain parts of animal cruelty? Why does he need to defend himself for choosing those limitations on himself?

He gave you the reason why. He said he's not for forcing others, kids, pets, etc on his diet. It's solely a decision he made for himself. In addition, by choosing that diet he's also voting with his wallet what types of foods he wants to see in grocery stores. More vegetarian and vegan options. This is something everyone does in some way.

The real problem here is that TC is trying to guilt trip and label meat-eaters as bad people.
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weapon_d00d816 posted...

There are better ways to help the climate than going vegan.

It doesn't do shit unless a significant proportion of people go vegan. It's not something that slowly chips away at climate change like most other forms. A single person switching over to recycling or an electric car would have a microscopic yet definite impact because it all adds up. In order for veganism to have an impact, there need to be enough people at the same time boycotting animal products for their demand to go down and the industry to downsize. There's nothing to chip away at. Your individual veganism means nothing. If anything at all, it slightly lowers the price of meat and the difference is picked up by other consumers.

There probably are better ways, but I'm gonna disagree that incremental increases in people choosing that diet doesn't help.

Look at the vegetarian and vegan options available in stores 20 years ago and look at them today. The increase in people choosing that diet meant an increase in companies wanting to make products for them. With more products for them it also increases the chance and easiness for new people to become one.
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StickFigures720 posted...

emblem boy posted...

What's so wrong with tc choosing for himself to not be involved in certain parts of animal cruelty? Why does he need to defend himself for choosing those limitations on himself?

He gave you the reason why. He said he's not for forcing others, kids, pets, etc on his diet. It's solely a decision he made for himself. In addition, by choosing that diet he's also voting with his wallet what types of foods he wants to see in grocery stores. More vegetarian and vegan options. This is something everyone does in some way.

The real problem here is that TC is trying to guilt trip and label meat-eaters as bad people.

Where does he do that
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MJ_Max posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

Why are you acting as if pain in the world doesn't exist?

Why are you acting as if it's wrong to try to prevent some of that pain when we can?

Can't you see this would be a ridiculous response to many things humans do to prevent pain in the world every day?

Solely because animals eating other animals is part of nature. We're animals, technically, so people get riled up when we eat other animals simply because we're held to higher standards of intellect, but when other animals eat other animals in the wold, that's just natural selection at work.

emblem boy posted...

What's so wrong with tc choosing for himself to not be involved in certain parts of animal cruelty? Why does he need to defend himself for choosing those limitations on himself?

He gave you the reason why. He said he's not for forcing others, kids, pets, etc on his diet. It's solely a decision he made for himself. In addition, by choosing that diet he's also voting with his wallet what types of foods he wants to see in grocery stores. More vegetarian and vegan options. This is something everyone does in some way.

Some people's decisions shouldn't be free from criticism. I enjoy eating meat products, but that doesn't mean I'm okay with how some of these animals are butchered. The end product is what matters here, not what happens in the slaughterhouse. Some people typically paint meat eaters as sadistic individuals who enjoy seeing animals get tortured when that isn't the case.

Going vegan is taking an extreme in my eyes. I can understand making a transition towards vegetarianism, and then gradually shifting towards veganism, but a meat eater going straight to veganism seems like an action done by somebody who hasn't fully explored their options, rather, they've been brainwashed to think that going vegan will have this amazing and wonderful impact on the world.
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emblem boy posted...

StickFigures720 posted...

emblem boy posted...

What's so wrong with tc choosing for himself to not be involved in certain parts of animal cruelty? Why does he need to defend himself for choosing those limitations on himself?

He gave you the reason why. He said he's not for forcing others, kids, pets, etc on his diet. It's solely a decision he made for himself. In addition, by choosing that diet he's also voting with his wallet what types of foods he wants to see in grocery stores. More vegetarian and vegan options. This is something everyone does in some way.

The real problem here is that TC is trying to guilt trip and label meat-eaters as bad people.

Where does he do that

What do you mean? It's all over this thread.
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Volkswagen_Bros posted...

Solely because animals eating other animals is part of nature.

Rape and cannibalism are a part of nature too. You chill with that? Cause I don't like taking cues on how I should behave from nature.

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

Some people's decisions shouldn't be free from criticism. I enjoy eating meat products, but that doesn't mean I'm okay with how some of these animals are butchered. The end product is what matters here, not what happens in the slaughterhouse. Some people typically paint meat eaters as sadistic individuals who enjoy seeing animals get tortured when that isn't the case.

Going vegan is taking an extreme in my eyes. I can understand making a transition towards vegetarianism, and then gradually shifting towards veganism, but a meat eater going straight to veganism seems like an action done by somebody who hasn't fully explored their options, rather, they've been brainwashed to think that going vegan will have this amazing and wonderful impact on the world.

There's nothing wrong with conductive critisism, but the majority of what I see in this topic is not that.

Some vegans might think of meat eaters like that, but where has the said he does?
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In post 24 tc even said he's open to easing into veganism
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StickFigures720 posted...

emblem boy posted...

StickFigures720 posted...

emblem boy posted...

What's so wrong with tc choosing for himself to not be involved in certain parts of animal cruelty? Why does he need to defend himself for choosing those limitations on himself?

He gave you the reason why. He said he's not for forcing others, kids, pets, etc on his diet. It's solely a decision he made for himself. In addition, by choosing that diet he's also voting with his wallet what types of foods he wants to see in grocery stores. More vegetarian and vegan options. This is something everyone does in some way.

The real problem here is that TC is trying to guilt trip and label meat-eaters as bad people.

Where does he do that

What do you mean? It's all over this thread.

I see people making fun of TC deciding to do this. I see people make snide remarks about it. I don't see TC saying meat eaters are bad people
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good luck tc
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I said this once, I'll say it again. It's okay to be vegan, just don't try to dictate other people's diet habits by guilt tripping them and shaming them just because they eat meat. It will cause nothing more than chaos if you do. Sure we eat meat, but we know that it's wrong if the animal is treated in a cruel matter. This thread should've ended at #55.

dolomedes posted...

emblem boy posted...

I see people making fun of TC deciding to do this. I see people make snide remarks about it. I don't see TC saying meat eaters are bad people

that's how it goes every time. literally every time.

At this point, you two are nothing more than biased white knights for TC, acting like as if everything he said is perfect when the fallicies are clearly in plain view and playing the victim card almost non-stop.

MJ_Max posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

Solely because animals eating other animals is part of nature.

Rape and cannibalism are a part of nature too. You chill with that? Cause I don't like taking cues on how I should behave from nature.

Rape is never acceptable to begin with and cannibalism does not apply to every animal. The fact that you try to being those two subjects up is just being desperate. Already you are being a militant vegan, jumping stereotypes left and right.
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StickFigures720 posted...

Rape is never acceptable

Agreed, but it occurs in nature, and the argument was that something being natural makes it okay (it doesn't).

StickFigures720 posted...

cannibalism does not apply to every animal.

That's irrelevant, the point was about animals eating other animals, which clearly doesn't apply to every animal either. But it is natural.

StickFigures720 posted...

Already you are being a militant vegan, jumping stereotypes left and right.

If you trace back the chain of comments, you'll see I'm only responding to someone who specifically criticized me from the start.

StickFigures720 posted...

I said this once, I'll say it again. It's okay to be vegan, just don't try to dictate other people's diet habits by guilt tripping them and shaming them just because they eat meat. It will cause nothing more than chaos if you do. Sure we eat meat, but we know that it's wrong if the animal is treated in a cruel matter. This thread should've ended at #55.

You still have not shown the posts where TC is being a militant vegan or trying to guilt trip people. Him talking about why he's doing it does not mean he's guilt tripping anyone.

StickFigures720 posted...

At this point, you two are nothing more than biased white knights for TC, acting like as if everything he said is perfect when the fallicies are clearly in plain view and playing the victim card almost non-stop

Which fallacies? I've asked multiple times now in multiple posts.
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MJ_Max posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

Solely because animals eating other animals is part of nature.

Rape and cannibalism are a part of nature too. You chill with that? Cause I don't like taking cues on how I should behave from nature.

You're comparing deviancy to the natural order of things. What's the matter with you, boy.

emblem boy posted...

There's nothing wrong with conductive critisism, but the majority of what I see in this topic is not that.

Some vegans might think of meat eaters like that, but where has the said he does?

In the OP, he stated that becoming a vegan means he'll prevent animal cruelty, which can only imply that those that are't vegan support animal cruelty. Being a meat eater and supporting animal cruelty aren't synonymous.
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Volkswagen_Bros posted...

You're comparing deviancy to the natural order of things. What's the matter with you, boy.

"Indeed, in orangutans, close human relatives, copulations of this nature may account for up to half of all observed matings.[3] Wrangham, R., & Peterson, D. 1996. Demonic males. New York: Houghton Mifflin."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociobiological_theories_of_rape#Animal_coercive_sex

Newsflash: the natural of order of things is fucked up, and it's not absurd to strive higher than that.

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

In the OP, he stated that becoming a vegan means he'll prevent animal cruelty, which can only imply that those that are't vegan support animal cruelty. Being a meat eater and supporting animal cruelty aren't synonymous.

Him being vegan would limit his interaction with that industry.

Would it be better if he phrased it as " I'm vegan so that I can limit my contribution to that industry" or something like that? I'm honestly asking.
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MJ_Max posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

You're comparing deviancy to the natural order of things. What's the matter with you, boy.

"Indeed, in orangutans, close human relatives, copulations of this nature may account for up to half of all observed matings.[3] Wrangham, R., & Peterson, D. 1996. Demonic males. New York: Houghton Mifflin."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociobiological_theories_of_rape#Animal_coercive_sex

Newsflash: the natural of order of things is fucked up, and it's not absurd to strive higher than that.

So because one specific breed of apes does it, it's considered a part of nature. That's besides the point because rape and cannibalism aren't observed or practiced at a large margin, and even if they were, I highly doubt it'll ever be established as a norm, not in a modern developed society.

Humans are omnivores by nature, so by going against our own animalistic instincts, I can very well say you're deviating from what's considered normal human behavior.
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emblem boy posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

In the OP, he stated that becoming a vegan means he'll prevent animal cruelty, which can only imply that those that are't vegan support animal cruelty. Being a meat eater and supporting animal cruelty aren't synonymous.

Him being vegan would limit his interaction with that industry.

Would it be better if he phrased it as " I'm vegan so that I can limit my contribution to that industry" or something like that? I'm honestly asking.

So it has to do more with guilt because, even if he were to stop purchasing meat products, that economy is still going to thrive with or without his business.

A single person isn't going to make much of a difference, so by saying "I want to limit my contribution to that industry", it makes more sense given that the meat industry won't be receiving revenue from his purchases anymore.
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Volkswagen_Bros posted...

So it has to do more with guilt because, even if he were to stop purchasing meat products, that economy is still going to thrive with or without his business.

Guilt and moral/ethical reasons within the individual person. And that's a good enough reason to do or stop doing something.
Are you then saying that that means he's implying all others are guilty for not doing the same?
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emblem boy posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

So it has to do more with guilt because, even if he were to stop purchasing meat products, that economy is still going to thrive with or without his business.

Guilt and moral/ethical reasons within the individual person. And that's a good enough reason to do or stop doing something.
Are you then saying that that means he's implying all others are guilty for not doing the same?

Not necessarily. He should be well aware that eating meat is more commonly done by people worldwide as opposed to following veganism. He can't use the ol' "Just because everyone's doing doesn't mean they're right!" argument because we're following our ancestors' instincts by eating both veggies and meat. It's just the natural way.
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Volkswagen_Bros posted...

emblem boy posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

So it has to do more with guilt because, even if he were to stop purchasing meat products, that economy is still going to thrive with or without his business.

Guilt and moral/ethical reasons within the individual person. And that's a good enough reason to do or stop doing something.
Are you then saying that that means he's implying all others are guilty for not doing the same?

Not necessarily. He should be well aware that eating meat is more commonly done by people worldwide as opposed to following veganism. He can't use the ol' "Just because everyone's doing doesn't mean they're right!" argument because we're following our ancestors' instincts by eating both veggies and meat. It's just the natural way.

I'm not seeing how that answers my question.


Also, similar to "Just because everyone's doing doesn't mean they're right!" Being a bad argument, the "it's natural so it must be good " argument is bad as well.
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emblem boy posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

emblem boy posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

So it has to do more with guilt because, even if he were to stop purchasing meat products, that economy is still going to thrive with or without his business.

Guilt and moral/ethical reasons within the individual person. And that's a good enough reason to do or stop doing something.
Are you then saying that that means he's implying all others are guilty for not doing the same?

Not necessarily. He should be well aware that eating meat is more commonly done by people worldwide as opposed to following veganism. He can't use the ol' "Just because everyone's doing doesn't mean they're right!" argument because we're following our ancestors' instincts by eating both veggies and meat. It's just the natural way.

I'm not seeing how that answers my question.


Also, similar to "Just because everyone's doing doesn't mean they're right!" Being a bad argument, the "it's natural so it must be good " argument is bad as well.

What's not to understand? Should others be made to feel guilty for eating meat and not following veganism? Why should we surrender our de facto diet? If anything, they should be the ones who should feel guilty for trying to implement a diet that goes against our human instincts.

"It's natural so it must be good?" More like "It's natural so it must be the way nature intended".
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Volkswagen_Bros posted...

What's not to understand? Should others be made to feel guilty for eating meat and not following veganism? Why should we surrender our de facto diet? If anything, they should be the ones who should feel guilty for trying to implement a diet that goes against our human instincts.

"It's natural so it must be good?" More like "It's natural so it must be the way nature intended".

If person A else feels guilty because of something person B is doing, how is it person B's fault? Especially if person B is not causing harm on anyone else or if person B is not even talking about it much or forcing anyone into the diet?

That's just as bad an argument. In 2017 we live very differently than how we did thousands of years ago.
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emblem boy posted...

Volkswagen_Bros posted...

What's not to understand? Should others be made to feel guilty for eating meat and not following veganism? Why should we surrender our de facto diet? If anything, they should be the ones who should feel guilty for trying to implement a diet that goes against our human instincts.

"It's natural so it must be good?" More like "It's natural so it must be the way nature intended".

If person A else feels guilty because of something person B is doing, how is it person B's fault? Especially if person B is not causing harm on anyone else or if person B is not even talking about it much or forcing anyone into the diet?

That's just as bad an argument. In 2017 we live very differently than how we did thousands of years ago.

Rarely do you hear of meat eaters trying to convince a vegan to try meat, whereas vegans are an outspoken group of people who use ridiculous tactics to try to force people to follow their asinine ways. "Will someone think of the animals!" has gotten old and tiring.

And yes, we've become a civilized society where we still eat vegetables and our precious meat. That part hasn't changed.
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Volkswagen_Bros posted...

Rarely do you hear of meat eaters trying to convince a vegan to try meat, whereas vegans are an outspoken group of people who use ridiculous tactics to try to force people to follow their asinine ways. "Will someone think of the animals!" has gotten old and tiring.

If we're talking about TC, he's not really doing that. In this topic there have been more people being mocking tc than the other way around.

If you're talking about groups that advocate animal rights, then yes they do talk about things like that. But is that different from any type of protesting? If you feel guilty because of what they're saying, then you pretty much agree with them. That's an issue that's totally on you. You can't say people shouldn't protest because you feel guilty about what they're saying
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You really want to be a vegan? Just look this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leVNIBWjqg4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjNdMBL36Rk

You really want to end up like this? Come back to the light and have a juicy burger.


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This whole thread escalated to an unnecessary level all because the vegans on here are trying to force veganism down our throats, despite saying that they're not trying to and that they won't accept that humans are omnivores by nature. Do you realise how intolerant you guys look right now?
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StickFigures720 posted...

This whole thread escalated to an unnecessary level all because the vegans on here are trying to force veganism down our throats, despite saying that they're not trying to and that they won't accept that humans are omnivores by nature. Do you realise how intolerant you guys look right now?

Like, am I being trolled here?
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