Current Events > Is sex reconstruction surgery an appropriate solution for transfolk?

(+) Yeah! (+)

If someone feels like they're supposed to be the opposite sex (whatever the fuck that is supposed to mean, as gender is a social construct) then is surgery to make the person look like whatever they desire an effective treatment?

Is asking this question in your other topic instead of making a new one an appropriate solution?
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What is with bronies and conservative shitposting?

I seriously want to know.
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yes, at least until we come up with something better.

edit: also, gender identity isn't a social construct. Gender roles are. but, despite both concepts commonly being reduced to the term 'gender', they are not at all the same thing.
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Medussa posted...

yes, at least until we come up with something better.

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For the time being.
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Le bump

And no, it's a horrible thing to do and not helping the mental condition
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ManBeast462 posted...

Le bump

And no, it's a horrible thing to do and not helping the mental condition

I'll dedicate my butchering to you.
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Even when they come out with a new method, they won't even allow it to be used regularly for at least 10+ years. A girl could die waiting for something like that.
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Honestly, I think they would be better off just living as girly boys or manly women. The surgeries and hormones sometimes do more harm than good. It is kind of barbaric if you think about it. That's how they used to "fix" homosexuals in the past.

At the end of the day, whether you're a man or a woman you're still the same person. :u I don't get why you need to disfigure your sex parts just to express yourself. I mean, if you want to wear a dress wear a dress. You might not look great in it but who cares?
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

Honestly, I think they would be better off just living as girly boys or manly women. The surgeries and hormones sometimes do more harm than good. It is kind of barbaric if you think about it. That's how they used to "fix" homosexuals in the past.

At the end of the day, whether you're a man or a woman you're still the same person. :u I don't get why you need to disfigure your sex parts just to express yourself. I mean, if you want to wear a dress wear a dress. You might not look great in it but who cares?

Are you transgender?

If yes, then I don't get this question.
If no, then you don't get what it is like to be transgender.

For someone like me who doesn't ever really wear dresses, all I want is a vagina. I can do with female non-dress and non-skirt clothes. I just want and need a vagina.
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As it stands, yup
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Waluigi7 posted...

What is with bronies and conservative shitposting?

I seriously want to know.

I think the common factor here is 4chan.
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Sayoria posted...

OpheliaAdenade posted...

Honestly, I think they would be better off just living as girly boys or manly women. The surgeries and hormones sometimes do more harm than good. It is kind of barbaric if you think about it. That's how they used to "fix" homosexuals in the past.

At the end of the day, whether you're a man or a woman you're still the same person. :u I don't get why you need to disfigure your sex parts just to express yourself. I mean, if you want to wear a dress wear a dress. You might not look great in it but who cares?

Are you transgender?

If yes, then I don't get this question.
If no, then you don't get what it is like to be transgender.

For someone like me who doesn't ever really wear dresses, all I want is a vagina. I can do with female non-dress and non-skirt clothes. I just want and need a vagina.

I'm not, no. :v

But like... I just don't understand that intense desire for a vagina. Even with surgery, what you get isn't going to be an actual vagina. It'll just look like one, and it'll reduce the function of your sex organs. All you gain is the aesthetic. It just seems backwards to me to wound a body part that is working properly as is because of a mental desire for it to look a certain way.
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

But like... I just don't understand that intense desire for a vagina. Even with surgery, what you get isn't going to be an actual vagina. It'll just look like one, and it'll reduce the function of your sex organs. All you gain is the aesthetic. It just seems backwards to me to wound a body part that is working properly as is because of a mental desire for it to look a certain way.

gender dysphoria is a mental disorder, that's how it is

sidenote, what's the deal with all these fucking brony accounts with no karma making shitty conservative troll topics lately? stop that, whoevers doing it
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Romulox28 posted...

gender dysphoria is a mental disorder, that's how it is

I think it'd be better to teach people ways of coping with it and understanding it, instead of signing them up to get their genitals sliced up and their bodies pumped full of hormones. :/

I mean... I'm all for people doing what makes them happy, but sometimes it seems like sex changes do more harm than good. I'm sure everyone is different though.
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

Romulox28 posted...

gender dysphoria is a mental disorder, that's how it is

I think it'd be better to teach people ways of coping with it and understanding it, instead of signing them up to get their genitals sliced up and their bodies pumped full of hormones. :/

I mean... I'm all for people doing what makes them happy, but sometimes it seems like sex changes do more harm than good. I'm sure everyone is different though.

Gender dysphoria is a result of being trans. It is essentially a fancy unique way of describing having depression and anxiety over a condition. You can be trans and not dysphoric. It just isn't as typical.
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I just think everyone should leave their functioning penises and vaginas ALONE. :u There are people out there with limp dicks who would give anything to have what you're throwing away. Think about the penises!
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There seems to be some goalpost moving from the left lately on this. A few years ago, all you'd hear was "gender is a social construct". Now, apparently, it's not?

Because if it's just a social construct, then why not just live as an effeminate man, or a masculine woman?

To answer the topic at hand: sex reassignment surgery is what's recommended for these people right now, but it doesn't actually reduce their suicide rates from what I've heard (at least not by enough to consider it a good solution, even if it's the best one that's currently available).
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

I just think everyone should leave their functioning penises and vaginas ALONE. :u There are people out there with limp dicks who would give anything to have what you're throwing away. Think about the penises!

i think everyone should have the genitalia they actually want. cis people not liking theirs isn't a reason to punish trans people. but it could certainly be a reason to develop ways to help them, too.

so, how about instead of telling me not to be happy, you go find a way to make them happy, too? (And make a bunch of money in the process)
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The Eternal Flame posted...

To answer the topic at hand: sex reassignment surgery is what's recommended for these people right now, but it doesn't actually reduce their suicide rates from what I've heard (at least not by enough to consider it a good solution, even if it's the best one that's currently available).

yes it does, just not to the average of the population at large. and it would be great for a better solution to be developed, but that's not a reason to stop using the best solution we have now.
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Medussa posted...

OpheliaAdenade posted...

I just think everyone should leave their functioning penises and vaginas ALONE. :u There are people out there with limp dicks who would give anything to have what you're throwing away. Think about the penises!

i think everyone should have the genitalia they actually want. cis people not liking theirs isn't a reason to punish trans people. but it could certainly be a reason to develop ways to help them, too.

so, how about instead of telling me not to be happy, you go find a way to make them happy, too? (And make a bunch of money in the process)

Why can't you be happy with a penis though? Why not learn how to be happy with a penis? Then you wouldn't need surgery and you'd save a lot of money. :u And you can pee easier.
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The Eternal Flame posted...

There seems to be some goalpost moving from the left lately on this. A few years ago, all you'd hear was "gender is a social construct". Now, apparently, it's not?

The thing is that people lump a few terms under the single term "gender" when they shouldn't be.

"Sex/biological gender" is the person's biological... well, sex, that determines what genitals they have.
"Gender identity" is what the person views themselves as. Usually it matches the person's sex, but sometimes not and that's where we get transpeople.
"Gender Role" is what society believes that people of certain genders should look and act.

Gender role is a social construct, but gender identity is not. But people still lump them together because they share the word gender, and that's why it often seems that the word "gender" has different meanings.

OpheliaAdenade posted...

Why can't you be happy with a penis though? Why not learn how to be happy with a penis?

To transpeople with severe enough dysphoria, they can't just learn to live with it because their brain is telling them that's it's fundamentally wrong and shouldn't be there. it's like if you had a metal flange instead of a hand; you know it's wrong and doesn't belong there.

OpheliaAdenade posted...

Why can't you be happy with a penis though? Why not learn how to be happy with a penis? Then you wouldn't need surgery and you'd save a lot of money. :u And you can pee easier.

because my brain is expecting a vagina. and, at least at this point, there's no way to change that. not that I would, even if it were an option. I would much rather change my body than my brain. my brain is who I am.
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But when someone says they identify as a woman, isn't what they're identifying as effectively those gender roles? If not, then in which way do they feel like they're a woman?
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Mikablu posted...

OpheliaAdenade posted...

Why can't you be happy with a penis though? Why not learn how to be happy with a penis?

To transpeople with severe enough dysphoria, they can't just learn to live with it because their brain is telling them that's it's fundamentally wrong and shouldn't be there. it's like if you had a metal flange instead of a hand; you know it's wrong and doesn't belong there.

I understand that, but isn't it kind of backwards to treat that dysphoria with surgery? Isn't that extreme? Like if I want to have my functioning hand removed because it felt wrong to me, would any sane doctor do that for me?
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

Sayoria posted...

OpheliaAdenade posted...

Honestly, I think they would be better off just living as girly boys or manly women. The surgeries and hormones sometimes do more harm than good. It is kind of barbaric if you think about it. That's how they used to "fix" homosexuals in the past.

At the end of the day, whether you're a man or a woman you're still the same person. :u I don't get why you need to disfigure your sex parts just to express yourself. I mean, if you want to wear a dress wear a dress. You might not look great in it but who cares?

Are you transgender?

If yes, then I don't get this question.
If no, then you don't get what it is like to be transgender.

For someone like me who doesn't ever really wear dresses, all I want is a vagina. I can do with female non-dress and non-skirt clothes. I just want and need a vagina.

I'm not, no. :v

But like... I just don't understand that intense desire for a vagina. Even with surgery, what you get isn't going to be an actual vagina. It'll just look like one, and it'll reduce the function of your sex organs. All you gain is the aesthetic. It just seems backwards to me to wound a body part that is working properly as is because of a mental desire for it to look a certain way.

Then it's really impossible for you to understand what I'm going through. Ever since I was a young teen and having those "fantasies" about having sex, my sexual fantasies came to me as having full-frontal sex using a vagina. Whenever I'd get "hot", my mind would set my body up by fantasizing myself having one. I thought this was odd and always kept it to myself because hey, I didn't understand it and society never encouraged the idea of "gayness" to me, but at the same time, I never had a penis in those fantasies.

To this day, I've never desired one and the issue is, it's a romance blocker. By that, I mean that I've had zero desire to find a love interest because mentally, I know having a penis is not something that matches my sexual alignment. It never has and it never will.

I find it very, very hard to just "live as a feminine male" when I don't feel the desires or wants of my penis. I've had many people interested in relationships with me.... men and women, but I've turned down all because I hate having this thing. It's a blockade preventing me from actually being able to take part in the actions that we as humans have instinctual.

Fake vagina or not, it would open the door for me to actually match my mental sexual desires.

The best I can say is, imagine being female and having a desire for external stimulation up front.... or vise versa. Being born male and having an interior stimulation desire. This is what I face and having a penis just completely ruins that. I am 30. I've had these desires since I was 13. I will not ever get over it and I need to address it.
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

Medussa posted...

OpheliaAdenade posted...

I just think everyone should leave their functioning penises and vaginas ALONE. :u There are people out there with limp dicks who would give anything to have what you're throwing away. Think about the penises!

i think everyone should have the genitalia they actually want. cis people not liking theirs isn't a reason to punish trans people. but it could certainly be a reason to develop ways to help them, too.

so, how about instead of telling me not to be happy, you go find a way to make them happy, too? (And make a bunch of money in the process)

Why can't you be happy with a penis though? Why not learn how to be happy with a penis? Then you wouldn't need surgery and you'd save a lot of money. :u And you can pee easier.

Telling a trans woman to be happy with her penis is like telling a gay man to start liking vaginas. It's not helpful at all and you just come off as a jerk. Instead of thinking about this from your point of view why don't you think about it from theirs. It might change how you see things.
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The Eternal Flame posted...

But when someone says they identify as a woman, isn't what they're identifying as effectively those gender roles? If not, then in which way do they feel like they're a woman?

no. there's a mental component to gender identity. if gender roles flipped completely, the same group of people would still be trans. because it's a physical and chemical issue with the brain.
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

Mikablu posted...

OpheliaAdenade posted...

Why can't you be happy with a penis though? Why not learn how to be happy with a penis?

To transpeople with severe enough dysphoria, they can't just learn to live with it because their brain is telling them that's it's fundamentally wrong and shouldn't be there. it's like if you had a metal flange instead of a hand; you know it's wrong and doesn't belong there.

I understand that, but isn't it kind of backwards to treat that dysphoria with surgery? Isn't that extreme? Like if I want to have my functioning hand removed because it felt wrong to me, would any sane doctor do that for me?

It is the best outcome for us, especially trans women. I refuse to have a quack try to alter my mind and push me to being someone else that I've never been all my life. People whose lives have no impact over my own personal choices should have no right to telling me what to do with my body.

And those who do dictate better not be pro-choice.
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Sayoria posted...

Then it's really impossible for you to understand what I'm going through. Ever since I was a young teen and having those "fantasies" about having sex, my sexual fantasies came to me as having full-frontal sex using a vagina. Whenever I'd get "hot", my mind would set my body up by fantasizing myself having one. I thought this was odd and always kept it to myself because hey, I didn't understand it and society never encouraged the idea of "gayness" to me, but at the same time, I never had a penis in those fantasies. To this day, I've never desired one and the issue is, it's a romance blocker. By that, I mean that I've had zero desire to find a love interest because mentally, I know having a penis is not something that matches my sexual alignment. It never has and it never will.I find it very, very hard to just "live as a feminine male" when I don't feel the desires or wants of my penis. I've had many people interested in relationships with me.... men and women, but I've turned down all because I hate having this thing. It's a blockade preventing me from actually being able to take part in the actions that we as humans have instinctual. Fake vagina or not, it would open the door for me to actually match my mental sexual desires.The best I can say is, imagine being female and having a desire for external stimulation up front.... or vise versa. Being born male and having an interior stimulation desire. This is what I face and having a penis just completely ruins that. I am 30. I've had these desires since I was 13. I will not ever get over it and I need to address it.

This may sounds crude and overly simple... but can't you just... pretend your bum is a vagina? I mean... it isn't that far away from the front. I know that sounds ridiculous... but you'd probably get better results from it than a makeshift surgical vagina. :v I mean, your imagination is a powerful thing.
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

Sayoria posted...

Then it's really impossible for you to understand what I'm going through. Ever since I was a young teen and having those "fantasies" about having sex, my sexual fantasies came to me as having full-frontal sex using a vagina. Whenever I'd get "hot", my mind would set my body up by fantasizing myself having one. I thought this was odd and always kept it to myself because hey, I didn't understand it and society never encouraged the idea of "gayness" to me, but at the same time, I never had a penis in those fantasies. To this day, I've never desired one and the issue is, it's a romance blocker. By that, I mean that I've had zero desire to find a love interest because mentally, I know having a penis is not something that matches my sexual alignment. It never has and it never will.I find it very, very hard to just "live as a feminine male" when I don't feel the desires or wants of my penis. I've had many people interested in relationships with me.... men and women, but I've turned down all because I hate having this thing. It's a blockade preventing me from actually being able to take part in the actions that we as humans have instinctual. Fake vagina or not, it would open the door for me to actually match my mental sexual desires.The best I can say is, imagine being female and having a desire for external stimulation up front.... or vise versa. Being born male and having an interior stimulation desire. This is what I face and having a penis just completely ruins that. I am 30. I've had these desires since I was 13. I will not ever get over it and I need to address it.

This may sounds crude and overly simple... but can't you just... pretend your bum is a vagina? I mean... it isn't that far away from the front. I know that sounds ridiculous... but you'd probably get better results from it than a makeshift surgical vagina. :v I mean, your imagination is a powerful thing.

No. It's not that simple and like I said, you cannot understand. It's far more difficult than that. Anal sex and vaginal sex are two different things entirely. I could feel the desire for anal and vaginal sex at the same time or separate sometimes. I know the feeling and desires of both. I just cannot take part in the latter because I'm blocked.
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

Mikablu posted...

OpheliaAdenade posted...

Why can't you be happy with a penis though? Why not learn how to be happy with a penis?

To transpeople with severe enough dysphoria, they can't just learn to live with it because their brain is telling them that's it's fundamentally wrong and shouldn't be there. it's like if you had a metal flange instead of a hand; you know it's wrong and doesn't belong there.

I understand that, but isn't it kind of backwards to treat that dysphoria with surgery? Isn't that extreme? Like if I want to have my functioning hand removed because it felt wrong to me, would any sane doctor do that for me?

BIID is a thing (and, unlike a lot of people, I think it's a decent comparison). and you're right, most doctor's wouldn't help you right now. but that's because it's still not very understood. the few people who have BIID and have done something physical to treat it do report a better life. but, there are some issues with the comparison. having 80% functional genitals doesn't really change your day to day life. only having one hand will. that's why, imo, doctors right now treat the two differently. but I'm not sure that's going to be true forever.
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

This may sounds crude and overly simple... but can't you just... pretend your bum is a vagina?

/facepalm.

No. No, we cannot do that. it's not even remotely close to what the issue is.

Sayoria posted...

No. It's not that simple and like I said, you cannot understand. It's far more difficult than that. Anal sex and vaginal sex are two different things entirely. I could feel the desire for anal and vaginal sex at the same time or separate sometimes. I know the feeling and desires of both. I just cannot take part in the latter because I'm blocked.

But you don't even know what vaginal sex is like. Isn't that just a concept in your head? You're already using your imagination to even conceive of it. No male knows what it actually feels like to have a vagina to begin with. They know what it looks like, but the sensation of it is a completely foreign concept to them.
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

Sayoria posted...

No. It's not that simple and like I said, you cannot understand. It's far more difficult than that. Anal sex and vaginal sex are two different things entirely. I could feel the desire for anal and vaginal sex at the same time or separate sometimes. I know the feeling and desires of both. I just cannot take part in the latter because I'm blocked.

But you don't even know what vaginal sex is like. Isn't that just a concept in your head? You're already using your imagination to even conceive of it. No male knows what it actually feels like to have a vagina to begin with. They know what it looks like, but the sensation of it is a completely foreign concept to them.

It's like instinct. You know how things are done and can just do things or feel things naturally.

Yes, you can argue that I don't know but when I was 13, it just all came naturally to me. I've always been very innocent of everything and when puberty hit, it was like a roller coaster with my mind saying "This isn't right" .... I've tried to understand it, but I never understood my penis.

Again, it's not anything I expect you to understand. It's really not.
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There is a mental imperative in a trans person to be reacted to as a member of the gender they are transitioning into in order to socially interact on any level. The moment you start getting reactions contrary to this you can easily see the anti-social and destructive tendencies start up.

There is no amount of therapy that is going to stop that. It has been tried. It can give ways to stem it, to turn it to less destructive methods, but this is why transition is the recommended course of action. If the person transitions until the conditions are met, the problem reduces to normalcy. This is variable, as each person's requirements are complex and different, but this is a proven course of action that has results.

It is entirely possible that the results are not enough to save the person or to give them a normal life, but it still has a higher success rate than any other method tried. Those suicide studies mentioned are not even slightly current, and are all based on data from over 10 years ago on trans people that have had SRS methods that aren't even being used anymore. Show me a current one from the last 5 years and I will consider some validity to it, since the game has changed for us so much in the last decade that the entire socio-political landscape has shifted entirely.

So yeah, in summary. Thanks guys for paying for my SRS. <3
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Mikablu posted...

OpheliaAdenade posted...

This may sounds crude and overly simple... but can't you just... pretend your bum is a vagina?

/facepalm.

No. No, we cannot do that. it's not even remotely close to what the issue is.

/hoofpalm

It is completely the issue and a far better solution to permanent surgery and chemical treatments

PinkiePie462 posted...

Mikablu posted...

OpheliaAdenade posted...

This may sounds crude and overly simple... but can't you just... pretend your bum is a vagina?

/facepalm.

No. No, we cannot do that. it's not even remotely close to what the issue is.

/hoofpalm

It is completely the issue and a far better solution to permanent surgery and chemical treatments

This has got to be a joke account.
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so, you don't actually care to listen to what 4 actual trans people are telling you? so what was the point of the topic in the first place? oh, right.
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"/hoofpalm"
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Waluigi7 posted...

PinkiePie462 posted...

Mikablu posted...

OpheliaAdenade posted...

This may sounds crude and overly simple... but can't you just... pretend your bum is a vagina?

/facepalm.

No. No, we cannot do that. it's not even remotely close to what the issue is.

/hoofpalm

It is completely the issue and a far better solution to permanent surgery and chemical treatments

This has got to be a joke account.

How so?
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

but can't you just... pretend your bum is a vagina?

...
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IR_G posted...

Waluigi7 posted...

PinkiePie462 posted...

Mikablu posted...

OpheliaAdenade posted...

This may sounds crude and overly simple... but can't you just... pretend your bum is a vagina?

/facepalm.

No. No, we cannot do that. it's not even remotely close to what the issue is.

/hoofpalm

It is completely the issue and a far better solution to permanent surgery and chemical treatments

This has got to be a joke account.

How so?

PinkiePie462 posted...

/hoofpalm

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Anteaterking posted...

OpheliaAdenade posted...

but can't you just... pretend your bum is a vagina?

...

wait what
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That's really up to the individual trans person. There are health reasons as to why some of them choose not to get the reassignment surgeries, and then there are personal reasons. But for many, yes, it's an effective way of reaffirming identity.
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PinkiePie462 posted...

Mikablu posted...

OpheliaAdenade posted...

This may sounds crude and overly simple... but can't you just... pretend your bum is a vagina?

/facepalm.

No. No, we cannot do that. it's not even remotely close to what the issue is.

/hoofpalm

Hoofpalm?

PinkiePie462 posted...

(whatever the fuck that is supposed to mean)

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It's not like an MtF is going to have a real vagina anyway, so the bum it is, the bum as usual.