Current Events > Is there a counter-argument to piracy other than 'it's illegal'?

(+) Yeah! (+)

weapon_d00d816 posted...

I don't really have a counter argument against it, just that there is no argument for piracy other than you don't want to pay. Don't get all preachy like "oh I don't want to support the creators/publisher for their greedy prices".

There is an exception, however. Region locking certain shows (as is often the case in Australia) often leaves people without a choice.

This one I actually agree with, sometimes companies don't give us the option to buy their product .
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Ultima Dragon posted...

The concept of "stealing" in the digital age is a weird one, since we're only talking about copies here. Nobody physically removed any existing thing from an actual brick and mortar establishment. No companies stock counts or projected sales are coming back negative.

When someone pirates something, it's almost like a non-action. It would just fly under the radar and no one would ever really know or notice since nothing is technically missing. Of course, it becomes a major problem when people start doing it en-masse.

It isn't the same as stealing, but it isn't exactly neutral for them either. The company loses potential profits. And even if that person hadn't the ability to pirate it and says "I wouldn't have bought it anyway", there's no way of accurately calculating how many people really "wouldn't have bought it anyway".
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Of course, while something being unavailable in your region is a generally agreed upon excuse to pirate something, it starts to get to the point where people begin to enjoy and seek out things that are specifically unavailable to them because, well, it's free...

And then when it does become available in their region, suddenly they're like "whelp, already watched that, too bad"

the physicality of a product and the abstract nature of digitizing doesn't offset freely consuming the work of an artist/group/company that was produced at cost and with the intention of sale
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If it isn't current and they've already made their money on it, fine. If you CAN'T GET IT IN THE STORE ANYMORE then fine.

Why argue that you should pay some guy on Ebay a crazy amount? Why argue that a game with a small print run should just have to change hands forever and hopefully you'll be in that circle? Do some of you get off on knowing that you played Panzer Dragoon Saga and a lot of others who want to haven't out of respect for some illogical rules?

Not every old game is available to purchase digitally.

Anisoptera posted...

If you're so against videogame piracy then stop streaming shows/movies from third-party sites. Stop listening to music on Youtube from unofficial channels. Stop uploading artwork on forums/social media without crediting the artists.

double standard video game fanboys arent too bright.
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TheFireRises posted...

GameFAQs is a site that spams malware in its ads. An adblocker is a necessity on this site.

then dont use it. your survival doesn't depend on visiting gamefaqs. yet you still choose to steal ad revenue.
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Times it's okay:
-it's out of print
-region locked
-you already bought a copy, but it was lost/stolen/damaged or you just want to try playing it on a new platform, etc
-the company is practicing sleazy practices (college text books)
-the developer/company wouldn't get the money anyway if you bought a new copy
-it's super rare or the means to play it in the original format are too complicated (arcade games, old console, needing a CRT TV, needing multiple adapters, etc)
-you live in a country where videogames are super expensive, are heavily regulated , and there's a very limited library of what you can play

Nah it's never "ok".

I don't really care if people like to pirate stuff. For me the problem is when people think that they are in the right to do so.
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Who cares what random people think is right and wrong? And most cases the company would lose money suing people who pirate because court costs are more than the $60 game you pirated.

Im Atheist, TONS of people think im "wrong". I dont care.
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Anisoptera posted...

Times it's okay:
-it's out of print
-region locked
-you already bought a copy, but it was lost/stolen/damaged or you just want to try playing it on a new platform, etc
-the company is practicing sleazy practices (college text books)
-the developer/company wouldn't get the money anyway if you bought a new copy
-it's super rare or the means to play it in the original format are too complicated (arcade games, old console, needing a CRT TV, needing multiple adapters, etc)
-you live in a country where videogames are super expensive, are heavily regulated , and there's a very limited library of what you can play

its never ok according to fanboys though. except the double standard on text books.
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Quite simply, you're just being a entitled freeloader for buying a product that still has an official pricetag on it. It's bad whenever a pirate encourages piracy and will do anything and I mean anything to defend their points, even if it meant using insane troll logic.

One time there was a YouTube comment that said that GTA: Vice City was available on Steam for $1.79 and someone replied "why get that old game for $1.79 when you can download it for free?" So I jumped in and called this person out for encouraging piracy and told him that he was stealing. He came up with a half-assed response about how he wasn't stealing and that he was simply getting free games. I completed his sentence with "that still has an official pricetag."

He threw a temper tantrum after that.
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Some people don't even want to bother with the sales on Steam because they don't want their credit card information stolen.

lots of people don't bother buying lots of things
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Piracy becomes less and less benign as more and more people do it.
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There will never be a world where everyone pirates. Those passionate about music will always buy the CDs, pre-order vinyls, and pay tickets to see the shows. Even those who love music will still pirate, but they will save up money to buy vinyls/merc/cd/cassette tapes when they get the chance.

Piracy would be harmful if everyone pirates and doesn't nothing to support the creators.

Anisoptera posted...

There will never be a world where everyone pirates. Those passionate about music will always buy the CDs, pre-order vinyls, and pay tickets to see the shows. Even those who love music will still pirate, but they will save up money to buy vinyls/merc/cd/cassette tapes when they get the chance.

Piracy would be harmful if everyone pirates and doesn't nothing to support the creators.

Sometimes 'passionate' people isn't enough to save a product.
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AssultTank posted...

Let's apply the Kantian principle of universality to piracy.

So we imagine a world where everyone pirates video games, music, and television shows.

Developers, artists, and film makers now make no money, but the content still costs money to produce. So the end result is that no developers, artists, or film makers will produce content. Thus piracy is a self defeating practice.

That's my argument against piracy. But then I tend to favor a Kantian approach to morality myself...

I'm pretty sure Radiohead and Nine Inch Nails would disagree.
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does there need to be another one?
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ForestLogic posted...

glitteringfairy posted...

ForestLogic posted...

glitteringfairy posted...

What other reason does there need to be? It's literally illegal and stealing is wrong.

Nah it's a lot more of a grey area than that.

Not really. Unless your trying to justify stealing to make yourself feel better

So if a really good cover band plays a near-flawless version of another bands song, does that make you a bad person for hearing it and enjoying it?

how the fuck is that the same thing at all?

I guess this is just a troll topic already
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If it's not on steam it gets pirated.
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I think piracy is great because it saves me money.Why should I give a a shit about idiot companies losing money?

megamanzero1000 posted...

I think piracy is great because it saves me money.Why should I give a a shit about idiot companies losing money?

If more people had the same kind of logic as you, than AssultTank's theory would go into effect.

AssultTank posted...

Let's apply the Kantian principle of universality to piracy.

So we imagine a world where everyone pirates video games, music, and television shows.

Developers, artists, and film makers now make no money, but the content still costs money to produce. So the end result is that no developers, artists, or film makers will produce content. Thus piracy is a self defeating practice.

That's my argument against piracy. But then I tend to favor a Kantian approach to morality myself...

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I think there are cases when it's acceptable. For example, when publishers incorporate intrusive DRM software that compromises a users privacy and burden's their computer. Also, when a game is marketed deceptively and isn't actually the level of quality that a $60 game should be (like No Mans Sky lying about features or Ubisoft releasing a broken, unfinished and terribly optimized Assassin's Creed game and hiding it with a review embargo).

Overall, I think at the end of the day the responsibility falls on developers to deliver enough high quality content to justify the price they're asking consumers to pay. $60 is a lot to pay for a game, and IMO it's one of the worst trends in the industry right now that the price is taken for granted so that a developer can charge that for any bullshit.
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Mernardi posted...

Pirates that act self-righteous are the worst.

StickFigures720 posted...

megamanzero1000 posted...

I think piracy is great because it saves me money.Why should I give a a shit about idiot companies losing money?

If more people had the same kind of logic as you, than AssultTank's theory would go into effect.

AssultTank posted...

Let's apply the Kantian principle of universality to piracy.

So we imagine a world where everyone pirates video games, music, and television shows.

Developers, artists, and film makers now make no money, but the content still costs money to produce. So the end result is that no developers, artists, or film makers will produce content. Thus piracy is a self defeating practice.

That's my argument against piracy. But then I tend to favor a Kantian approach to morality myself...

But not everyone pirates and their are very robust statistics and market research about piracy available. Companies know roughly how many people will pirate, and they budget that into their developing and marketing costs.
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daftpunk_mk5 posted...

But not everyone pirates and their are very robust statistics and market research about piracy available. Companies know roughly how many people will pirate, and they budget that into their developing and marketing costs.

Stores do the same with shoplifting and that cost is passed onto the consumers.
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daftpunk_mk5 posted...

StickFigures720 posted...

megamanzero1000 posted...

I think piracy is great because it saves me money.Why should I give a a shit about idiot companies losing money?

If more people had the same kind of logic as you, than AssultTank's theory would go into effect.

AssultTank posted...

Let's apply the Kantian principle of universality to piracy.

So we imagine a world where everyone pirates video games, music, and television shows.

Developers, artists, and film makers now make no money, but the content still costs money to produce. So the end result is that no developers, artists, or film makers will produce content. Thus piracy is a self defeating practice.

That's my argument against piracy. But then I tend to favor a Kantian approach to morality myself...

But not everyone pirates and their are very robust statistics and market research about piracy available. Companies know roughly how many people will pirate, and they budget that into their developing and marketing costs.

Piracy is likely a contributing factor on why some games are half-assed and incomplete.
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fenderbender321 posted...

Piracy is just copying and/or arranging property the same as somebody else did. Not inherently a crime. People argue that people won't create/produce as much if everyone can pirate it, but I doubt society would let a basic need like new movies/music go unfulfilled.

Again, AssultTank's theory.
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The idea that media wouldn't get made in a world where everyone pirates is poor logic. Even if people would only create media for profit they would switch to a crowdfunding format such as Kickstarter to prefund their products rather than selling them after they are made. But the real reason piracy isn't immoral is because it doesn't cause direct harm to anyone. It is an infinite good (digital content) any scarcity is artificial. Stealing my car is only wrong because another one won't instantly replace it. I am directly harmed and can no longer use my car. If you download a copy of some media I made the media still exists for me or others to use. No one is directly harmed. IP laws are a form of artificial scarcity designed to extract profit by making an unlimited good appear to be limited forcing a supply constraint that doesn't actually exist. It is bad for society. If you are interested in the science behind this there is a free book here:
http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/againstfinal.htm

Now I will return to never posting on this board.
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If I could download a car I would
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thronedfire2 posted...

ForestLogic posted...

glitteringfairy posted...

ForestLogic posted...

glitteringfairy posted...

What other reason does there need to be? It's literally illegal and stealing is wrong.

Nah it's a lot more of a grey area than that.

Not really. Unless your trying to justify stealing to make yourself feel better

So if a really good cover band plays a near-flawless version of another bands song, does that make you a bad person for hearing it and enjoying it?

how the fuck is that the same thing at all?

I guess this is just a troll topic already

Because when you buy an mp3, you're not buying a master recording of the performance of a song. You're buying the copied and pasted abstract data which instructs your computer how to make noises that sound the same as what the band sounded like when performing it. Effectively your computer is doing a flawless cover of that original performance of the song in-studio.
So in other words it's exactly the fucking same.


Helpful hint: next time you want to chime in on something with an opinion, know about what you're talking about, before launching into HURR TROLLLL U TROLLIN.
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The point is that piracy is an act of freeloading by getting stuff for free that is not authorised to be for free. It just seems a little strange that people would try to justify doing it. Don't let greed overcome you.
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Does there really need to be any other reason? Fucking thieves
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the worst part about these threads is that the pro-pirates will get really anal over the word steal despite knowing exactly what people mean by it despite their misuse of the word

StickFigures720 posted...

The point is that piracy is an act of freeloading by getting stuff for free that is not authorised to be for free. It just seems a little strange that people would try to justify doing it. Don't let greed overcome you.

Me personally, I actually don't think it's always 100% justifiable to pirate, and I honestly stopped doing it ever since I started having a grown up salary. But that said, I don't think most people who engage in it are necessarily bad people, and outside of rare/exorbitant cases I don't think they should go to jail or be fined over it. Like I said in my very first post, I view it as a really big grey area.
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I will use the "taking money argument"

Whether you pirate out of convenience or cheapness/laziness, you are taking money from the people who made that product. I am not talking about the actors or director/producers.

I am talking about the crew. The people that work on these things for a living. This is how they pay their bills.


Less profit=less episodes=less shows=less work


Though it's an interesting point to note that it's hard to gauge how much profit is lost, as there's no real guarantee that because someone pirates a show online that means they'll have watched it otherwise.
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ForestLogic posted...

thronedfire2 posted...

ForestLogic posted...

glitteringfairy posted...

ForestLogic posted...

glitteringfairy posted...

What other reason does there need to be? It's literally illegal and stealing is wrong.

Nah it's a lot more of a grey area than that.

Not really. Unless your trying to justify stealing to make yourself feel better

So if a really good cover band plays a near-flawless version of another bands song, does that make you a bad person for hearing it and enjoying it?

how the fuck is that the same thing at all?

I guess this is just a troll topic already

Because when you buy an mp3, you're not buying a master recording of the performance of a song. You're buying the copied and pasted abstract data which instructs your computer how to make noises that sound the same as what the band sounded like when performing it. Effectively your computer is doing a flawless cover of that original performance of the song in-studio.
So in other words it's exactly the fucking same.


Helpful hint: next time you want to chime in on something with an opinion, know about what you're talking about, before launching into HURR TROLLLL U TROLLIN.

lmao
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mp3 sales neither promise physicality nor original representation at the point of sale, which instead clearly advertises what is being offered/purchased, and no hypothetical cover band can match that same degree of recreation (let alone a real one) so that falls flat as a point of comparison

at most you could instead argue whether those against piracy then also believe that royalties are owed to the original performers based on the usage of their work
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I dont understand the pirate that cares about what others think. You obviously feel bad or need others to approve of your actions.

When something is amazing and no one can stop you from doing it just do it and enjoy it. Dont worry about them. They can pay for stuff and feel warm and fuzzy while hating me for what i do. I dont care and neither should you.
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StickFigures720 posted...

Piracy is likely a contributing factor on why some games are half-assed and incomplete.

nope. its fanboys enabling shitty developers
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Illuminoius posted...

the worst part about these threads is that the pro-pirates will get really anal over the word steal despite knowing exactly what people mean by it despite their misuse of the word

This
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I mean, whether it's strictly stealing or not, you are getting something that is meant to cost money without paying for it.
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Mernardi posted...

I'm still convinced that people that are pro-piracy are just poor. I've never had a problem buying what I want.

I make more than 85 percent of CE dorks, yet if there is an alternate way to enjoy something without paying, I'll take it. I'm cheap lol. Also, I don't give a fuck.
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'someone other than me will handle it' is a justification that tries to devalue same the work that people clearly internally value more, and it punishes creators for engaging their passion
that art/media creation will never be abandoned entirely does not then excuse consumption without compassion, it only asks creators to place in effort for you without a reason to beyond their own desire to create and share

the argument might level against a capitalist schema but not for the actualized piracy being referenced, and that reaches far beyond the conversation as stands
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Mist_Turnips posted...

Mernardi posted...

I'm still convinced that people that are pro-piracy are just poor. I've never had a problem buying what I want.

I make more than 85 percent of CE dorks, yet if there is an alternate way to enjoy something without paying, I'll take it. I'm cheap lol. Also, I don't give a fuck.

i bet 100% of the dorks thag whine about game piracy steal anime and manga or music
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