Current Events > How do game companies cater to both competive and casual players?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Take SFIV to SFV.

Casuals.

Links and frame data are too understand.
1 frame links are too hard.
Gameplay is too defense oriented and boring to watch.
I don't want to practice every day to stay good.

SFV
Let's make it easier to hit links and have hit confirmable supers.
Elimination of true 1 framers.
Offensive oriented gameplay.
Easier to pick up and play.

Nobody likes it. And let's not act like adding arcade mode would save it, they need to relaunch it entirely.

So how do you do it? It's not just fighting games it effects a wide variety of genres.
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Maybe instead of trying to cater to a specific audience, just try to make a good game?
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brotrrwinner posted...

Maybe instead of trying to cater to a specific audience, just try to make a good game?

It's not IV, but I like it for what it is.

I think a lot of people came to IV during Ultra when it was somewhat balenced (along with Super) and don't remember the othrer iterations.

Vanilla, AE, AE 2012 were broken as well.
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casual mode and competitive mode
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Stylish mode in Guilty Gear.

And yeah, Vanilla+AE were pretty fucked. USFIV, outside of Elena and a few other things, was a pretty strong FG. SFV could have waited. Instead we have a fucking stillbirth in the FGC.
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SFV's gameplay is lackluster because:

- The neutral, with stubby normals, is very boring and as a result footsies are barely a thing compared to what they were in SF4
- Combos generally only have one route without variations
- The game isn't executionally difficult

You can still retain SFV's low skill floor and fix these issues.

Elimination of true 1 framers.

True 1 framers were never used in SF4, they would always be plinked or slinked. For example, take the more executionally difficult characters like Ibuki, Sako would always be slink his tsumuji loops.

they don't have to directly. While SF4 was hard, it was still entertaining to both casuals and vets. SF4 had more sales and viewers on twitch than SF5
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Get rid of v trigger, dumb comeback mechanic almost as bad as X Factor.
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Fox_Master posted...

SFV's gameplay is lackluster because:

- The neutral, with stubby normals, is very boring and as a result footsies are barely a thing compared to what they were in SF4
- Combos generally only have one route without variations
- The game isn't executionally difficult

You can still retain SFV's low skill floor and fix these issues.

Elimination of true 1 framers.

True 1 framers were never used in SF4, they would always be plinked or slinked. For example, take the more executionally difficult characters like Ibuki, Sako would always be slink his tsumuji loops.

I think re adding proximity normals would help with the variety of some characters.

They're too bare bones, and some are basic without V-trigger.

Plinking isn't explained in game in IV you have to go online, and it's hard to do at first. Option selects were another problem, but outside of the basic crouch tech and maybe some situational teleports it was only a thing at high level play.

I used SF for an example, but I see it happening with card games and other games that try to departure from an established formula. Nobody usually embraces it unless it's a Nintendo game and the innovations are years late...
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ManSpread posted...

Get rid of v trigger, dumb comeback mechanic almost as bad as X Factor.

Yeah, and some v-skills are too good or useless.

Karin should not get that much versatility off her V-Skill and a two bar trigger.
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What's the fascination with just-frames anyway?

Capcom should be looking at the tutorial for Rev 2. It even teaches you basic option selects. Guilty Gears deep ass tutorial and stylish mode make it easy for casuals but nobody plays anime.
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nayr626 posted...

Karin should not get that much versatility off her V-Skill and a two bar trigger.

delet dis
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Smash Melee catered to both

Sm4sh does too

BlazBlue and Guilty gear too

Questionmarktarius posted...

What's the fascination with just-frames anyway?

With Karin?

You get max damage if you hit it fast enough.

If you watch players like Punk he has her optimized to a science.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

What's the fascination with just-frames anyway?

Skill ceiling and player identity. How many people could pull off the same combos as Smug and Sako in SF4? In SFV everyone has the same basic flowchart combos and resets.
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nayr626 posted...

With Karin?

with any game.

Not fighting games​, but DMC, MGS, etc all have options for both hardcore and casual gamers
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PowerOats posted...

Smash Melee catered to both

Sm4sh does too

BlazBlue and Guilty gear too

And those are alienated from the community because of "Anime!" and "Nintendo".

It's over saturation at this point. Isn't this the same problem that happened in the 90's? It seems like its at a mid point where it's still grass roots, but it's not quite professional yet and most players don't want that to happen.

FightingGames posted...

nayr626 posted...

Karin should not get that much versatility off her V-Skill and a two bar trigger.

delet dis

Am I wrong?
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ManSpread posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

What's the fascination with just-frames anyway?

Skill ceiling and player identity. How many people could pull off the same combos as Smug and Sako in SF4? In SFV everyone has the same basic flowchart combos and resets.

I was happy when I was able to pull of Sakura's tatsu loop.

Never quite did the Sako SFIV loop :(.
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PowerOats posted...

Smash Melee catered to both

Sm4sh does too

BlazBlue and Guilty gear too

I disagree with Guilty Gear, it has a steep learning curve for a casual fighting game plaeyr.

The problem with sf4 was that you couldn't do good damage without having good execution unless you were a grappler or something.

So sf5 should have kept the difficult stuff but made it so those are only reauired if you want to optimize your combos and get like an extra 10% damage.

That way pros can still style and have different combos from other people but playing it isnt a part time job for normal people
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WizardPowers posted...

The problem with sf4 was that you couldn't do good damage without having good execution unless you were a grappler or something.

So sf5 should have kept the difficult stuff but made it so those are only reauired if you want to optimize your combos and get like an extra 10% damage.

That way pros can still style and have different combos from other people but playing it isnt a part time job for normal people

Most characters had a 2 frame variation. Not a lot of characters had one frame bnbs outside of Rose, Evil Ryu, and Chun/Sakura loops I want to say.

And even then pro's would always miss one framers and FADC's..

Which was why it was fun to watch because every game was like a chess match.

Optimized Karin and Ibuki in SFV are hard as well..not everyone knows max damage Karin or Ibuki set ups.
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Halo managed to cater to both during the Bungie era. Not so much when 343 took over though.
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