Current Events > Wonder Woman was great, most of the time. *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

I really hated it in the last 20 minutes though. They set it up perfectly where 'maybe Ares just doesn't exist and people are like this' as Diana is shocked and has to reevaluate her whole belief system. And the result of this huge reality check in the middle of chaos is grounds for some beefy character development. But NOPE! Fucking goofy ass British guy is actually Ares in a dumb plot twist and they have a superhuman battle. When the rest of the movie was grounded in reality.

Ok yes, WW blocking bullets and jumping and super strength are obviously not realistic, but her doing these minor things every once in a while in the movie is there to show how great she truly is. It's supposed to be jarring every time. But then you have a DBZ fight in the middle of nowhere and it's like, wtf?

Cliche "but humans are imperfect!" vs "but they are still worthy" contrast we see all the time.



I thought the movie was great and found really nothing wrong with it, up until Ares onwards. Ugh.
---

Master Kazuya posted...

They set it up perfectly where 'maybe Ares just doesn't exist and people are like this"

Except for where that wouldn't make sense since Zeus was 100% real, and Hippolyta and Antiope talked about Ares when Diana wasn't even around, because they knew he was coming back.

I mean, yeah, it would've been a good plot twist if Wonder Woman wasn't a character that involved mythological figures being real. But the movie was never trying to go that route.

I do think a lot of the CGI was pretty cheesy, though. Especially in the final battle. But...eh.
---

Master Kazuya posted...

Cliche "but humans are imperfect!" vs "but they are still worthy" contrast we see all the time.

At some point you have to remember that heroic characters like Wonder Woman are old as fuck as far as comics and actually contributed to establishing this trope in the first place.

So of course it's going to pop up in her origin movie (that just happened to take too damn long to finally appear in cinema unlike male superheroes Superman and Batman who appeared much sooner). The "dangers of human (male) imperfection" rhetoric has been a part of the WW mythology for decades. It was part of her journey from her homeland as an emissary to the outside world which functioned on completely different rules than her home island. She was warned before leaving about "man's destructive ways" and she wanted to see for herself.
---

I kinda wished it ended with only a hint of Ares, and Steve Trevor dying anyway. That way WW would have her "Man is bad" narrative, "But maybe some are like him" sub thought, and WW2 would have the showdown with Ares in World War 2 (would have been better IMO with Ares being responsible for the most destructive war of all time)
---

so can she fly or not
---

Only thing I hated was them making her the reincarnation of Zeus. Now it's not a story about Diana, but lady Zeus going forward.
---

she fly at the ending.
---

Ares wasn't wrong. But we had to have our action-packed superhero ending.
---

Master Kazuya posted...

They set it up perfectly where 'maybe Ares just doesn't exist and people are like this'

Sure, but the actual ending was Ares does exist, but people are actually just like this anyway and Ares doesn't really have anything to do with it.

Master Kazuya posted...

Fucking goofy ass British guy is actually Ares in a dumb plot twist and they have a superhuman battle. When the rest of the movie was grounded in reality.

I don't really know about rest of movie was grounded in reality. WW Jumps into a sniper tower so hard the tower explodes. The story was kind of a coming of age thing where she slowly learns how to use her powers over time. They did something similar in Man of Steel, except the peak happens towards the middle of the movie and a lot more time is spent having superpowered battles.

Akagami_Shanks posted...

I kinda wished it ended with only a hint of Ares, and Steve Trevor dying anyway. That way WW would have her "Man is bad" narrative, "But maybe some are like him" sub thought, and WW2 would have the showdown with Ares in World War 2 (would have been better IMO with Ares being responsible for the most destructive war of all time)

If it's anything like the comics, Ares isn't dead. He'll come back eventually.
---

ClockworkHare posted...

At some point you have to remember that heroic characters like Wonder Woman are old as fuck as far as comics and actually contributed to establishing this trope in the first place.

Fair

Akagami_Shanks posted...

I kinda wished it ended with only a hint of Ares, and Steve Trevor dying anyway. That way WW would have her "Man is bad" narrative, "But maybe some are like him" sub thought, and WW2 would have the showdown with Ares in World War 2 (would have been better IMO with Ares being responsible for the most destructive war of all time)

Yeah that would be better.

ChromaticAngel posted...

. WW Jumps into a sniper tower so hard the tower explodes.

If you notice the sentence afterward, I literally pointed out how WW's powers were the exception. It's not fair to only use the first half of a point as a means to retort back. Also, tell me that WW using her superjump ability (which was already established that she could do) is the equivalent of Ares summoning metal flame swords in a all out multi-sword lunge in a giant ball of fire, followed by full on telekinesis, teleportation, and lightning summons.

ChromaticAngel posted...

Sure, but the actual ending was Ares does exist, but people are actually just like this anyway and Ares doesn't really have anything to do with it.

If that's the case then Ares didn't have to exist to drive that point home in a narrative sense.

slmcknett posted...

Except for where that wouldn't make sense since Zeus was 100% real, and Hippolyta and Antiope talked about Ares when Diana wasn't even around, because they knew he was coming back.

I think if Ares was just implied to be around instead of overtly around, it'd be better. I get that Ares has to play some role in the movie because he was built up in the beginning, but I personally think it'd be way cooler if Ares was this sort of omniscient presence rather than some actual dude.
---

Agree completely with the idea of Ares being more of a omnipresence that shows up in the next movie. Though WW did make great strides in economy of plot, instead of trying to cram everybody and their mother in like SS and BvS.

Master Kazuya posted...

If you notice the sentence afterward, I literally pointed out how WW's powers were the exception. It's not fair to only use the first half of a point as a means to retort back. Also, tell me that WW using her superjump ability (which was already established that she could do) is the equivalent of Ares summoning metal flame swords in a all out multi-sword lunge in a giant ball of fire, followed by full on telekinesis, teleportation, and lightning summons.

Ares is a entirely different class of being. Throwing fireballs and shit is just what he does. He doesn't do it throughout the movie because Ares actually benefits from being around conflict. He started a war and prolonged it because that's how he gets his power. During times of absolute peace, he's totally defenseless.

Throughout the movie, WW keeps running across people suffering. She has all these powers, but none of them are good for helping feed people, or helping children find their missing parents. All she can do is beat the shit out of people, but that doesn't actually help anyone. She wants to help people, but can't. Everywhere she goes, she wants to stop and help and Steve Trevor says repeatedly "There's nothing you can do."

Eventually Ares shows up in full glory, and Charlie asks Steve "What do we do?" and Steve responds "There's nothing we can do." Because this is what Wonder Woman was for. She was useless the whole movie intentionally to harp on the fact that her purpose was to defeat Ares. It was the only way she could be effective at helping people. She couldn't help anyone who was suffering, but by killing Ares, she could at least prevent more suffering. Her powers manifested proportional to the opponents she was fighting.

She needs to hurl lightning at Ares to kill him, so that's why she doesn't do it until then. Watching a movie about how she goes around crushing everyone with her godlike powers doesn't make her a hero, it makes her female Ares.

Master Kazuya posted...

If that's the case then Ares didn't have to exist to drive that point home in a narrative sense.

I mean, that's the plot twist. He doesn't have to exist. They'll fight and kill each other anyway. He's just good at making it especially awful by doing things like showing people how to make terrible chemical weapons or other instruments of war.
---

BillyKidd posted...

Only thing I hated was them making her the reincarnation of Zeus. Now it's not a story about Diana, but lady Zeus going forward.

she's his daughter, not him
---

lol
---

Like Stardust Crusaders LOL
---