Board 8 > So I'm watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer, as well as Angel *surely spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

And Lorne being dead means no more Angel singing!

Lorne was amazing for causing that scene if nothing else.

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(Maniac64 at work)
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I'm rather confused, since Lorne lived through the end of the finale! I hope you were all somehow perfectly aligned in playing a joke on me and Lorne actually serves a long time on the series and becomes a key member to Angel Investigations!

But yeah, they all got out all hunky dory after some help from the Groosalugg. This episode was really weird in that it didn't feel like a finale whatsoever. Nothing was really resolved. No major character changes were made, though I guess something can be said for Cordelia's claim that she likes her visions and they allow her to help people. It was a good story, I guess, but I've always been a big fan of "WHOAMG THIS IS THE FINALE GUYS" kind of deals. But I understand the difference in the show. It's a pity, though, because I've been enjoying the investment in Angel a little more than the investment in Buffy as of late. Fred is still around and I'm curious if she'll become a cast member in the same vein that Gunn became one this season. I wouldn't be surprised, nor really disappointed I guess. She's cute. Some neats stuff from Wesley as he filled into that leadership role and did what was necessary to achieve victory. I like how the difference in Wesley and Gunn's leadership styles was pointed out, and it's interesting because you think their leadership styles would be the opposite of what they really are.

FYI, 1 > 2

Character Rankings:
Wesley
Angel
Cordelia
Gunn

I like all of them, though. Gunn grew on me.

And since I forgot to do them for Buffy:
Giles
Xander
Anya
Spike
--small gap--
Riley (I'll count him since he was in the credits)
Buffy
Dawn
Willow
Tara

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snowpork
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And for fun, I've decided I'm going to keep a running ranking of the recurring characters from both series. Maybe to keep suspense, I'll keep this list secret and do a grand countdown reveal at the end of my watching of both series. Or maybe not. But I'm still going to keep fine tuning it until I'm comfortable with it/have all the eligible characters listed.

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snowpork
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I'm rather confused, since Lorne lived through the end of the finale! I hope you were all somehow perfectly aligned in playing a joke on me and Lorne actually serves a long time on the series and becomes a key member to Angel Investigations!

Mega Mana made the joke and we went with it. Seemed like a fun fake-out. I make no guarentees as to how long (or short) Lorne survives after this though. Or how much of a part he plays in the future.

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(Maniac64 at work)
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muddersmilk posted...

I'm rather confused, since Lorne lived through the end of the finale! I hope you were all somehow perfectly aligned in playing a joke on me and Lorne actually serves a long time on the series and becomes a key member to Angel Investigations!

Mega Mana made the joke and we went with it. Seemed like a fun fake-out. I make no guarentees as to how long (or short) Lorne survives after this though. Or how much of a part he plays in the future.

This

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Oh man minor characters.



Heh @ Wesley topping your Angel character list. He's really come along way from S3 Buffy.

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Alright, so the first three episodes of each season have been watched. Here's a rundown:

Buffy Season 6:
Bargaining: Part 1/Part 2
First things first, it's time for my favorite part of starting a new season: the opening credits. It's different, and I'm not sure how I feel about it. You can tell it switched networks. I don't like Alyson Hannigan getting a featured credit at the end. I don't like it because Willow is one of the gang, and this makes it seem like the network value her more than the others. With Giles, it was okay that he was considered special, since he was the knowledgeable father figure and just had that air of importance. That spot should be reserved for Anthony Stewart Head, dammit, who isn't even in the opening credits anymore. He damn well better make it back in there. Speaking of which, it's sad he is gone for a couple of episodes. Here's hoping his departure is rather brief, which it sounds like it will be.

I really don't like Willow being the "head" of the group. I understand she is the most powerful now, but it's just kind of weird. Really messes with the status quo of the group. Maybe this is just more of a still not preferring Willow over any of the others deal, but it is what it is. That opening where she was directing everyone with her mind was just silly. Perhaps it's just a development of her character, and I see it as a turn for the worse, which could very well be intentional given that I know a future storyline involves her in a big way, and it's looking more and more like it could happen this season. She's seems really dedicated to directing everyone, whether it be because she feels she has to, or whether she feels she is the only one who can. That spell deal was weird. Creepy, too. Either way, Willow's powers are becoming scarily strong, and I'm certain the gang is starting to notice that, too. I'm excited to see that develop. As of now, I'm uncomfortable watching Willow because of how strong she is becoming.

Oh, right. Buffy's return. Neato. Very weird watching her move around the town silently. I get kind of tired watching "stressed/confused/shocked Buffy" however. It gets done at least once a season, it seems. Understandable given her calling, but still. It gets old. A strong scene on top of the structure, though.

After Life
Some really good stuff from Dawn and Spike here. Dawn telling everyone to back off, and then being wary of Willow when dealing with that monster created by the spell was neat. She's come on really strong to start this season, which is surprising to me. And Spike was just awesome throughout. Completely understanding of what Buffy was going through, and now that he knows how Buffy really feels, it really gives way for my Buffy-Spike interaction in the future. Wonderful. Selfish Willow adds more to that development, and continues making me feel uncomfortable towards her.

But yeah, that monologue from Buffy about where she was and being back was pretty awesome. You could just tell something wasn't right with her the entire time, and her delivering that thanks to the gang was easily seen through. Earth being Hell seems to be one of those homages to the Buffyverse being a whole, what with the Angel "Earth is Hell" thing that occurred last season. Pretty neat, Powerful stuff finding out she had lied to all of them. Assuming the gang finds out at a later point in the season, that backlash should be interesting.

Right. Angel coming up next. Also, don't expect extensive writeups like this much further. It's rare that I have this much to talk about.

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snowpork
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Angel Season 3
Heartthrob
Kind of a weak opening, in my opinion. Didn't really do much to address the events from last season, but I guess there wasn't TOO much to address. Fred is still around, trying to get back to "normal" I guess. Wesley, Cordelia, and Gunn are just doing their thing. Angel is off doing some soul searching or whatever in the wake of Buffy's death, which doesn't get coped with hardly, at least not in a way I think would be fitting of their relationship. I guess Angel makes a note of that, though. I didn't really care about their relationship all that much I guess, so whatever. If it gets addressed at a later point in the season, so be it. Oh yeah. Pregnant Darla. I'd be surprised buuuuuuuuuuut I kinda spoiled myself on that earlier on during the watchthrough. Oops. My lesson has been learned.

That Vision Thing
Joss Whedon must like Kal Penn as a random guest, because he was in Buffy as well. MAYBE IT'S THE SAME CHARACTER AND AFTER BECOMING A PRIMAL ANIMAL IN BAD BEER, HIS CHARACTER GOES ON A VISION QUEST TO TRY AND COME AT PEACE WITH HIS INNER SELF AND DISCOVERS THIS UNTAPPED POWER AND STARTS USING IT FOR BAD THINGS BECAUSE THAT BEAST IS STILL WITHIN HIM! But yeah, attacking Cordy through her visions. How cruel. It's good they acknowledge Lilah is still around early on in the season. That guy that Angel saved is bound to have a bigger role later on. I like his look. Also, I loved Angel's interactions with that guard demon guy guarding the guy Angel freed. I wish I could remember his name. Their exchange was just awesome. I loved the nonchalance. Wonderful. Hilarious.

That Old Gang of Mine
I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. Yeah, Gunn never gets much character development ever, but this was still a good episode for him. I'm curious to see if his gang having lost their way, especially after seeing a demon eat Gio, even though he was a little twisted, will continue to be a player this season. That said, Wesley outshone Gunn in 30 seconds with his "do that again and I'll fire you" spiel. I loved scenes like that. It reminds me of one of my favorites scenes from Firefly: After the events on Ariel, Mal locks Jayne in the entrance area and goes off on him. Awesome. But yeah, Wesley is easily my favorite character on the show right now, which is saying a lot given my love for both Angel and Lorne (who has been in every episode so far yessssssssss one step closer to opening credits).

I hope to see more "Fred attempts to reconnect with the world" moments, and it'd be good to see Cordelia struggling with something other than "oww my visions hurt" things, which are legitimate concerns, but it's nice to see Cordelia in normal situations, too. I also wonder if they'll follow up on Angel's agreement with those three sisters. They seemed quirky enough to provide a lot of entertainment for an episode. But yeah, Fred has a lot of potential, though I hope they lay off on the geek speech quickly.

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From: ZaziGuado | #058

Also, I loved Angel's interactions with that guard demon guy guarding the guy Angel freed. I wish I could remember his name.

Skip, iirc.

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"One toot on this whistle will take you to a far away land."
-Toad, SMB3

I wanted to say Skip, but I didn't want to be wrong. Good deal. He was awesome. Moar Skip plz

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snowpork
Zazi is posting from his cellular telephone

I love Willow but I agree about her getting Gile's spot is wrong. But maybe it was meant to annoy.

It's a contract thing not a producers decision thing.

Alyson's agent negotiated for her to take the "And" spot (the 2nd best credit spot) once Tony left the credits.

So its not meant to annoy, it really is just business.

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(Maniac64 at work)
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Just like how Tara isn't in the main credits even though she appears in every (?) episode.

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Oh man Season Suck of Buffy.

And that season of angel aint much better. Good luck.

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While Buffy season 6 isn't that great over all, it does have the best episode in the series!

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No I'm not a damn furry. Looney Tunes are different. - Guiga
I wanted Sonic/Shadow romance at that time, not sex. - MWE

Season 3 of Angel is pretty good.

I mean, it's not great when you look back on it and try to remember all the things that happen, but watching episode to episode is a lot of fun. Tons of humor and quieter moments. I'm always surprised by how much I find myself just completely enjoying the ride even though there are a lot of times, nothing much happens.

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"Oh my God MWIS. I just really want to ask, if this is a SMALL CYOA.... what in the name of holy blue christ is a big one?!" - ExTha

Don't give him negative hype you guys. Although the two best seasons are behind him, it's still better than almost anything else you can watch.

The opinions on the last few seasons vary so drastically that I don't think it really matters. There are people that say seasons 4 and 5 of Buffy are terrible and he enjoyed them just fine.

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No amount of planning will ever replace dumb luck.

There are also people who think Season 6 and 7 of Buffy are the best of the whole show.

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(Maniac64 at work)
All the proteins, vitamins, and carbs of your grandma's best turkey dinner, plus 15% alcohol.

I liked s6 of buffy, though it had some weak episodes, it had some great ones.

and s3 of angel was like, top tier for me. it is the next one that is the worst imo.

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From: CycloRaptor | #070

it is the next one that is the worst imo.

Almost everyone agrees on that. Though there are a few episodes that are awesome for a certain actor's performance if nothing else.

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"One toot on this whistle will take you to a far away land."
-Toad, SMB3

I think a show that has such a wide variety of opinions on the highs and lows is the mark of a good show.

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Zazi is posting from his cellular telephone

Oh hey I watched an episode of each.

Buffy - Season 6, Episode 4: Flooded

Thank god Giles is back. I've missed him so much. That scene with him and Willow was amazing. Giles scolding anyone is awesome, just because his character always shows this rare moment of intolerance. And then Willow's brief "don't piss me off" moment was awesome too. Just a great interaction all around and easily the highlight of the episode. We also met some villains for the season, which were rather interesting choices. Jonathan, Warren, and whatever the other guy's name was are going to be strictly comedic relief villains I think. If they ever pose a threat, I think it will be through accidental means, and it shouldn't be long until some greater threat knocks them out of the way. Financial problems and other real life things are going to further enforce Buffy's "this world is too hard" stance, which is too bad. It's necessary stuff, but not as interesting as demonic forces making Buffy's life hard. Finally, Spike was good here in his limited screentime, too. I like the bond he and Buffy will be able to form during this season. And now Buffy is going to go see Angel somewhere that isn't L.A. or Sunnydale. lolol network split.

Angel - Season 3, Episode 4: Carpe Noctern

Fred is cute. Her slight southern accent isn't really my thing, but her quirks are endearing. She's no Cordy, but as she gets character development, I think she'll really start to shine both personality wise and beauty wise. No Lorne this episode. How disappointing. Marcus as Angel was pretty humorous and seeing him interact with the team, especially when he though Angel was gay, was comedy gold. David Boreanaz does silly well. I really enjoy how Angel has been more silly lately. I don't mind him serious, but there are enough cast members now that everybody can slide into every role needed to form a successful team. And again, lolol network split.

Something I want to note is that I think I actually enjoy Angel more as a series at this point. I've just develop such a greater attachment for all of them. They still feel fresh whereas Buffy's team is starting to feel a little stale. Giles and Spike are still awesome, but everyone else is starting to lose my interest a bit, which is disappointing. On Angel, I've just started loving each character more and more with each passing episode. Perhaps that is a case of the writers getting more time to work on each individual as the cast has slowly grown. I'm not sure, but I just love the cast of Angel so much, from the main cast to the recurring characters. Even the villains I enjoy more. Lindsey, Darla, Lilah, Holland Manners, and probably soon to be Gavin Park. The focus is less on the titular character, like in Buffy, and more on the problems they face. It just seems to work so much better at this point.

I dunno, anybody else have any thoughts, at least as it concerns both series up to the point I'm at?

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snowpork
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Yeah, I definitely agree with Angel having stronger characters. It's why I think overall it's a better show. It's more of an ensemble cast.

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No amount of planning will ever replace dumb luck.

I love the main cast of both shows with a couple of exceptions (one being a very unpopular opinion) but I enjoy the plots of Buffy much more and Buffy still has my overall favorite characters (though Angel and Wesley are up there too). I'll take season 3 of Angel over season 6 of Buffy though.

Jonathan, Warren, and whatever the other guy's name was are going to be strictly comedic relief villains I think.
"Tucker's brother"

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(Maniac64 at work)
All the proteins, vitamins, and carbs of your grandma's best turkey dinner, plus 15% alcohol.

It's Andrew. Ah, the good old trio. XD

I don't know if you'll like the direction Buffy is going this season, and there are a couple of blah episodes, but on the whole I enjoyed it. I've also heard the Buffy goes downhill the longer it's on, and Angel gets better the later the season so maybe you're experiencing that.

It's funny because nobody ever remembers Andrew's name in universe and neither does Zazi!



When the show was airing, there was definitely a feeling of Buffy starting to feel like it's dragging on while Angel still felt in its prime, I guess you are getting that feeling even now watching through it for the first time. Personally, I really liked Buffy S6 and S7.

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The batman villians all seem to be one big joke that batman refuses to laugh at - SantaRPG

Season 7 of Buffy is significantly better if you watch it on DVD rather than waiting a week between each episode. It makes a big difference.

And man I disagree with the Angel thing. Season 5 is great but I completely stopped watching Season 4 while it aired. And watching all of it later made me feel like I made the right choice.

Each to their own I guess.

The important thing is to see what Zazi will think of it.

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"Hope is allowed to be stupid, unwise, and naive." ~Sir Chris

From: LordoftheMorons | #065
While Buffy season 6 isn't that great over all, it does have the best episode in the series!
I disagree but well discuss that later!

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I will say our feelings are more or less in alignment at that point in time, although....as the seasons both go on they both easily become my least favorite in its respective series. Which is a shame because season 3 of Angel has such potential.

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I assume this best episode of the series talk has to do with the musical episode. I have high hopes for that one.

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Zazi is posting from his cellular telephone

Your hopes are exactly as high as they should be!

Tagtastic. I've missed this topic.

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JonthePenguin
http://www.backloggery.com/main.php?user=erunion

Aww, you know about the musical. I was really hoping you would start watching and Buffy would be singing and you'd be all "wtf"

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The batman villians all seem to be one big joke that batman refuses to laugh at - SantaRPG

Andrew has an Iowa shirt on in this episode I just watched. That's pretty cool.

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ZaziGuado posted...

Andrew has an Iowa shirt on in this episode I just watched. That's pretty cool.

Wait what? Why don't I remember that. I can't believe I could have never noticed it.

When does it happen? I must find it!

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(Maniac64 at work)
All the proteins, vitamins, and carbs of your grandma's best turkey dinner, plus 15% alcohol.

It's when they are painting the van. It's covered partly by his button up, but you can see the o and the w and bits of the I and the a and I'm pretty sure there is an old school hawk, too.

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snowpork
Zazi is posting from his cellular telephone

Oh man I guess I've never paid enough attention to it.

That is awesome and now I am forced to like Andrew more.

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(Maniac64 at work)
All the proteins, vitamins, and carbs of your grandma's best turkey dinner, plus 15% alcohol.

Yeah I also have to greatly disagree with Angel being better. I kind of agree on the cast being stronger, but except for season 5 and a stretch it season 3, the show on the whole was just a lot weaker.

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I feel like Angel has less "bad" parts but the highs aren't as high either. It is a more consistent show, but I wouldn't necessarily say either one seemed significantly better to me.

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Andrew is already a fantastic character... XD

stay away, purge

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snowpork
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UP

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The batman villians all seem to be one big joke that batman refuses to laugh at - SantaRPG

bumpo

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SuperNiceDog ate all my bananas.

Oh hey I've watched two episodes of each since the last update, but don't really have it in me to write anything. I'm enjoying both series, though.

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snowpork
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Well that's good.

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(Maniac64 at work)
All the proteins, vitamins, and carbs of your grandma's best turkey dinner, plus 15% alcohol.

Indeed.

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JonthePenguin
http://www.backloggery.com/main.php?user=erunion

At least get to THE episode of Buffy. XD

He already watched Hush.

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"Hope is allowed to be stupid, unwise, and naive." ~Sir Chris

Once More with Feeling!