Board 8 > There is no justification for gay marriage, pot, or prostitution being illegal.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Gay marriage automatically...illegal? Contradiction much?

Gay marriage provides equal benifits and rights to everyone while harming nobody. By that merit alone, it's not even something that should be put to vote, it should just automatically be legal.

Pot is less harmful than either alcohol or tobacco, and the only significant downsides to it would be solved by legalizing it - would remove a lot of street crime, free up police time, provide a new source of taxation, and allow it to be regulated.

The same goes for Prostitution. The only reason it's illegal is because it's a dangerous profession, and the only reason it's dangerous is because it's illegal - if it was legalized, it could be regulated and taxed, new jobs could be formed, it could be a much healthier profession, and would free up much needed police power.

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Joyrock
Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!

Aw yeah, preach it, TC!

*lights one up*

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You just burned a prostitute?!

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joyrock topic

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you should take this to the white house

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From: Ytterbium_70 | #002
Gay marriage automatically...illegal? Contradiction much?

Come one, come all, my great friend the typo. Should've been obvious given the title.

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Jakyl25 posted...
You just burned a prostitute?!

Let's just say it's gonna burn when she pees. lol

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KingButz posted...
joyrock topic

he's actually being rational and making good points for a change, don't discourage him this time

Liquid Wind posted...
KingButz posted...
joyrock topic

he's actually being rational and making good points for a change, don't discourage him this time

When has that ever discouraged me >.>;

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From: Liquid Wind | #009
he's actually being rational and making good points for a change, don't discourage him this time

just give him a few posts

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From: Liquid Wind | #009
he's actually being rational and making good points for a change, don't discourage him this time

Liquid Wind post

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KingButz posted...
From: Liquid Wind | #009
he's actually being rational and making good points for a change, don't discourage him this time
just give him a few posts

you can 'lol joyrock' at that time!

this is like scolding your dog for pissing on the rug before he's actually done it, you have to train em properly!

While I have no problem with legalizing prostitution, I will say that trying to regulate and tax that is going to be a logistical nightmare.

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From: TheRock1525 | #014
While I have no problem with legalizing prostitution, I will say that trying to regulate and tax that is going to be a logistical nightmare.

Still better than just calling it illegal and "hunting them down", though.

--
There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover, God himself, be your hope. You have to be your own hope.

From: TheRock1525 | #014
While I have no problem with legalizing prostitution, I will say that trying to regulate and tax that is going to be a logistical nightmare.

The brothels in Nevada seem to be doing fine.

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TheRock1525 posted...
While I have no problem with legalizing prostitution, I will say that trying to regulate and tax that is going to be a logistical nightmare.

I'd think it would work just fine if you regulate it the same they do massage clinics - regular health code inspections, mandatory condom usage, regular health records.

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Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!

Jakyl25 posted...
prostitute

Jakyl post

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OctilIery posted...
TheRock1525 posted...
While I have no problem with legalizing prostitution, I will say that trying to regulate and tax that is going to be a logistical nightmare.

I'd think it would work just fine if you regulate it the same they do massage clinics - regular health code inspections, mandatory condom usage, regular health records.

But here's the thing: if you make those requirements than technically you're only legalizing certain types of prostitution. You can only perform these acts in a set location with specific guidelines.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's pretty easy to enact these laws, it just seems like it'd be tough as hell to enforce it. What's to stop a person from just inviting a client in their own place or meeting them in a hotel room to have sex and exchange money there? Obviously, there's a risk for the prostitute but she also stands to make more money if she doesn't have to pay any taxes on this. Plus, then the government has to go about proving that your sexual encounter was A) by an unregistered prostitute and B) there was an exchange of money. There's also the issue of anonymity. Honestly, most men who are going to a prostitute prefer people not know they're doing so, either because of the social stigma or because they're cheating on their spouses. I'm assuming the man would prefer to have these encounters at a nondescript place rather than going to a brothel.

I guess, to me, it's always tougher to regulate a service than a good. There's so many ways a prostitute could circumvent this. Obviously, I'm sure some of them would appreciate a safer working environment. But what if a prostitute wants to work from home? There's plenty of out-of-house services. How do you document all their sexual encounters and determine which ones involved money exchanges and which ones didn't? Hell, even in a registered brothel, what's to stop them fudging the numbers there, too? Do you force them to give out a receipt for every transaction? Then you have to track down all the people who got a service provided by them.

It just seems like it's really, really, really easy for a prostitute to hide any money they've made. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with the legalization of prostitution. I just think if you're going to track and regulate it, it's going to be a hot mess.

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TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

There is no justification for the government regulating personal relationships in any capacity. Marriage should be left to individuals and (if the individuals desire it) churches.

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I agree with this except for pot. Drugs are bad, mmkay? Although I do think the punishment for possession/selling it should be far less severe. Like just community service or something. It would do the potheads some good to get off the couch and exercise to lose the munchies gut.

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^i guess you think cigarettes and alcohol should be illegal too then

hell, coffee too, i know people who cant function till they have it in the morning.

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I need caffeine or else I get pissed.

But I don't drink coffee.

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TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
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The only problem I could ever have with legal pot is people smoking it near me, but I guess it wouldn't happen anyway because of the stigma associated with it and the fact that just smoking a plain cigarette in public is almost a crime now.

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From: Theon_Greyjoy | #018
Jakyl25 posted...
prostitute

Jakyl post

Hey, I'm 3 months dry.

Mostly because I'm unemployed at the moment but what can you do. <_<

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Man, I dunno, Joyrock. Sometimes you make really good topics and have excellent opinions. Other times you make topics like this.

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From: Jakyl25 | #025
Hey, I'm 3 months dry.

Three months without a prostitute? That's brutal.

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From: SmartMuffin | #020
There is no justification for the government regulating personal relationships in any capacity. Marriage should be left to individuals and (if the individuals desire it) churches.

So why should individuals be able to decide that thousands of people (that they have literally nothing to do with) can't marry the other consenting adult that they love? And don't answer with something along the lines of "that's what he majority wants". This question isn't about whether or not the majority wants it. It's about why they have the right to decide such a thing in the first place.

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The biggest problem with prostitution is the spread of disease. Sure, you can say such pleasantries as "mandatory screenings for STDs", but really? Are you sure that somebody who's short on funds and desperate for food/rent money is going to jump through that hoop? And disease can spread very quickly; if one prostitute engages a single john a night, that's seven men potentially infected in a week (well before symptoms start to show). And those men aren't necessarily going to keep seeing that one prostitute; the spread of disease grows geometrically. In order to reduce the spread of dangerous vectors, it is better to keep prostitution illegal.

"Oh," you say, "But look at Nevada! Look at the brothels there!" To that I ask, how many women can one brothel employ at a time? And again, desperate, broke people aren't going to bother getting that protection.

Also, exploitation of the poor, women, etc. But mostly disease prevention.

Thing is though that prostitution being illegal is not going to make anyone desperate or poor enough to do it *not* want to do it. All you're doing is punishing women who are victims already

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We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable

Making the profession less lucrative, thereby reducing the spread of dangerous contagions. It's not a matter of punishing the poor (although they may engage in it), it's a matter of disease prevention.

I concur with the message in this topic title.

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DeathChicken posted...
Thing is though that prostitution being illegal is not going to make anyone desperate or poor enough to do it *not* want to do it. All you're doing is punishing women who are victims already

I hear this line of thinking all the time in regards to both drugs and prostitution, and I always ask the same question: do you really not believe that there's a large grey area who don't participate in these things simply because it's illegal? That either people are prostitutes/druggies or not prostitutes/druggies, and the law does **** all to incentivize people's actions?

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Uglyface2 posted...
Making the profession less lucrative, thereby reducing the spread of dangerous contagions. It's not a matter of punishing the poor (although they may engage in it), it's a matter of disease prevention.

Actually, legal prostitution is very safe when it comes to STD prevention. Employers treat their prostitutes effectively as commodities, and having one catch a disease means losing capital.

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When it comes to things like prostitution, people do it because they're highly desperate. Same thing with drug addicts, really. You really think someone deep in the throes of heroin addiction is going to go "Well hell, this is illegal, so I'd better not shoot up today!". No. They don't care, because their situation has put them in a place where the law doesn't mean anything

Now, granted, an argument could be made that the illegalization of drugs has an effect on those who haven't quite gotten to that desperate of a point (although it's a false argument. Studies have shown that drug use has not actually gone down *at all* since it was made illegal. It's all at the same relative level it was before it was prohibited), but when it comes to prostitution, no, there is no gray area. No one decides they want to up and become a prostitute for fun. They decide to do it because they're already in that area where their situation is bad enough that who cares about the law

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Uglyface2 posted...
Are you sure that somebody who's short on funds and desperate for food/rent money is going to jump through that hoop?

I'm sure I'm not going to buy from a seller who doesn't jump through "that hoop," regardless of the industry in question. If the seller won't tell me, then I won't buy.

Let me just say for the record that I don't support the industry in and of itself, but at the same time, I feel that people should be free to engage in any business they want as long as they aren't harming others.

Also, exploitation of the poor, women, etc. But mostly disease prevention.

Notably, issues with disease and exploitation in that industry weren't a problem back when the industry was legal. It only happens on the black market.

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I'm not really gonna engage here, but if the law is stupid people will break it, especially if they think it's reasonable that they won't get caught. And no, this doesn't mean people are desperate if they smoke weed or [blank].

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(although it's a false argument. Studies have shown that drug use has not actually gone down *at all* since it was made illegal. It's all at the same relative level it was before it was prohibited),

Study please.

but when it comes to prostitution, no, there is no gray area. No one decides they want to up and become a prostitute for fun. They decide to do it because they're already in that area where their situation is bad enough that who cares about the law

Three groups of women who would be affected by the legalization of prostitution:

1) Naive rich and/or insecure chicks who try it for attention.
2) Lower-class girls who are deeply desperate and need the money.
3) Lower-class girls who are desperate, but don't want to risk jailtime.

The first group is trivial and the second group will continue to work regardless of whether it's legal, but the third group would become an entirely new one once prostitution were made legal. So the question becomes whether or not you believe steering a certain percentage of the nation's young females towards selling their bodies for profit reflects social progress.

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To be fair, rather than becoming a prostitute you would get into the pornography industry.

It's a safer, legal alternative. Hell, couples videotape themselves having sex and sell the tapes all the time.

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TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

Any post that contains the word desperate here just isn't informed. There are a lot of people who will break the law, it does not mean they are desperate. Just because somebody chooses a career outside the law does not mean they're desperate. There are people with college degrees and careers who choose to go that route.

But sure I agree with the logic that if say weed is legal and prostitution is legal, then it'd make sense we'd see a bump in people trying these things. It'd also make these things, well particularly prostitution, much safer. That's certainly a good thing.

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I agree with legalizing the first two.

The 3rd has way too many problems associated with it, though.

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TheRock1525 posted...
To be fair, rather than becoming a prostitute you would get into the pornography industry.

It's a safer, legal alternative. Hell, couples videotape themselves having sex and sell the tapes all the time.

The lack of freedom never stands still it's always trying to get more, filming porn is barely legal here. Pun intended. But yeah, you may've heard recently in LA porn can now only be filmed with condoms on, so most of the industry is now in Vegas. Plus you need to get permission to film. And, in case you didn't know, you can't film porn legally in most parts of America.

Also for the record, it's actually not even close to as lucrative, outside of a very very small minority of pornstars who have fame and command higher pay.

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Is being a prostitute all that lucrative, though? I never said the porn industry was going to make everyone super rich, just that it's a safer, legal alternative to prostitution.

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From: TheRock1525 | #039
To be fair, rather than becoming a prostitute you would get into the pornography industry.

Harder field to break into.

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From: TheRock1525 | #043
Is being a prostitute all that lucrative, though?

Depends on the level of prostitute you're talking about.

Your low-level street walking prostitute is not making all that much, especially if she has a pimp.

High-class escorts make a very nice sum of money.

There's a lot of in-between there. Generally, you're going to make enough to live off of if you're living alone.

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I doubt porn stars do just one scene a day...

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Oddly enough yes, prostitution is in general far more lucrative than porn. It's the oldest profession for a reason.

I've heard some podcasts with pornstars as the guests describing how they got into the biz and how much they got paid per shoot, and I forget the exact numbers off hand but it was very low, something like 300 dollars for a scene. Which is a day of shooting.

(a prostitute could get that in an hour)

Also, just for the record, many famous pornstars go into prostitution as well.

Plus, again since even in LA and Vegas where most porn is filmed, these companies can only get so many filming permits from the state and whatnot, these jobs really aren't flying around as much as you'd think.

Believe it or not, our mighty porn is under fire.

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I'm glad to see we've got our porn experts in here.

The only thing though is that a lot of people sell sex tapes (not in the literal sense, but selling downloads) that aren't filmed in California or Las Vegas. What is the legality of that?

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TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

Or what's the legality of a camwhore?

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TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

The 30 or 40 minute scene you watch is actually the best bits from several hours of filming. At least according to say Katie Morgan or Cassie Young on their podcast, pretty much one scene a day for an actress.

As for sex tapes for download, if you're not talking about amateur porn which is for the most part actually filmed in Vegas or California and isn't as amateur as it's made to look. I'm sure there are people doing illegal things, naturally, but if you haven't gotten a permit to film porn, it's not legal.

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