Board 8 > Uhhh... what are they doing to Total Recall?

(+) Yeah! (+)

And what happened to Mars?

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They're making it more similar to the actual story.

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Joyrock
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Wait, is that a f***ing trailer... for a f***ing trailer?

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Not necessarily a good thing. The original movie is a masterpiece. This is one of those movies I'll just ignore, they could've had the decency to slap a subtitle or something on it.

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Psycho_Kenshin posted...
Not necessarily a good thing. The original movie is a masterpiece. This is one of those movies I'll just ignore, they could've had the decency to slap a subtitle or something on it.

No, it's a damn good thing. The original was decent but not great, and in the lower tier of PKD adaptions.

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Joyrock
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They always say it'll be more like the book, but this really does just look like some bland amalgam sort of conforming to the previous film and sort of not. And while I'm sure any K. Dick piece could make a good movie, as The Shining shows us you don't always have to stay faithful to make a great movie. They already made a great movie. And there's already a book.

This will be neither, and will probably be forgotten in two years, just my take.

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Dunno why you posted that when there is an actual trailer.



Looks actually pretty good. Obviously different from the first one. I don't think any of the trailer shows Mars, but from the looks of it, he's at the spaceport at the end of the trailer. I'm interested in how they'll deal with the ending, whether they'll leave it ambiguous like the original or come down on one side or the other.

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From: RayDyn | #003
Wait, is that a f***ing trailer... for a f***ing trailer?

Had to back the **** up when I thought it was telling me to get ready for a trailer. Clearly I didn't read that right. But apparently I did.

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FAHtastic posted...
Dunno why you posted that when there is an actual trailer.



Because I couldn't find the actual trailer for some reason. Thanks man.

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Psycho_Kenshin posted...
They always say it'll be more like the book, but this really does just look like some bland amalgam sort of conforming to the previous film and sort of not. And while I'm sure any K. Dick piece could make a good movie, as The Shining shows us you don't always have to stay faithful to make a great movie. They already made a great movie. And there's already a book.

This will be neither, and will probably be forgotten in two years, just my take.

First off, The Shining was a terrible movie, both as a horrible movie and as an adaption. Awful example.

Second, there have been several superb adaptions off of Dick's stories, and he has done tons more that would be just as suitable. Not to mention the original story, We Can Remmber It For You Wholesale, isn't a book, and I'm not sure why you'd be referring to it as that unless you had minimal knowledge of it.

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FAHtastic posted...
Dunno why you posted that when there is an actual trailer.



Looks actually pretty good. Obviously different from the first one. I don't think any of the trailer shows Mars, but from the looks of it, he's at the spaceport at the end of the trailer. I'm interested in how they'll deal with the ending, whether they'll leave it ambiguous like the original or come down on one side or the other.

Given that it's trying to be more true to Dick, it's probably going to be ambiguous. More general paranoia that way :3

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Joyrock
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Also, didn't know Total Recall was actually a book. Derp. :P
You learn something new everyday.

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Psycho_Kenshin posted...
OctilIery posted...
First off, The Shining was a terrible movie, both as a horrible movie and as an adaption. Awful example.

Of course, you can see other people's viewpoints and probably recognize that it's not an awful example, since despite not liking the movie yourself it's pretty well regarded.

No, it's a pretty damn awful example. Being well regarded does not stop it from being trash, both ruining the source material and failing to be a good horror movie.

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The Shining is a great movie that is a dreadful adaption of a pretty good story

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Ace_Killjoy posted...
Also, didn't know Total Recall was actually a book. Derp. :P
You learn something new everyday.

Yup!

Phillip K Dick has had lots of stuff adapted to movies, some more loosely than others(Next with Nic Cage was based on a story about a dystopian future with mutated humans where one was found with golden skin who could see a few seconds into the future).

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OctilIery posted...
No, it's a pretty damn awful example. Being well regarded does not stop it from being trash, both ruining the source material and failing to be a good horror movie.

There's a lot to discussing things like art where you've gotta have a somewhat more open-minded approach for the conversation to even happen. Like "To me it's trash, but I recognize that some would consider the artistic license taken there can be good". Or something like that. ;-)

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OctilIery posted...
Phillip K Dick has had lots of stuff adapted to movies, some more loosely than others(Next with Nic Cage was based on a story about a dystopian future with mutated humans where one was found with golden skin who could see a few seconds into the future).

Darn. We could've seen a golden Nic Cage.

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OctilIery posted...
First off, The Shining was a terrible movie, both as a horrible movie and as an adaption. Awful example.

Of course, you can see other people's viewpoints and probably recognize that it's not an awful example, since despite not liking the movie yourself it's pretty well regarded.

And yes I'm aware it's a short story or novella, ha why have I ever interacted with you Joyrock. You're not usually this pedantic dude.

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Psycho_Kenshin posted...
OctilIery posted...
No, it's a pretty damn awful example. Being well regarded does not stop it from being trash, both ruining the source material and failing to be a good horror movie.

There's a lot to discussing things like art where you've gotta have a somewhat more open-minded approach for the conversation to even happen. Like "To me it's trash, but I recognize that some would consider the artistic license taken there can be good". Or something like that. ;-)

Except we're not discussing it as art. The art has nothing to do with its being an adaption, making it irrelevant to the conversation. We're talking about it as a horror movie and it as an adaption, anything else is not up for discussion in here, and it fails at both portions.

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Joyrock
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Ace_Killjoy posted...
OctilIery posted...
Phillip K Dick has had lots of stuff adapted to movies, some more loosely than others(Next with Nic Cage was based on a story about a dystopian future with mutated humans where one was found with golden skin who could see a few seconds into the future).

Darn. We could've seen a golden Nic Cage.

Even better, it was a feral creature incapable of speaking, so we'd never have to hear him!

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Joyrock
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This is just internet 101, you're expressing what you like and don't in what I'd say are inappropriate responses to people having different taste in movies or books (you don't like this word here so I'll say "prose?") and just practically yelling about it. And very pointless.

I'd further inquire why you think art is something separate from horror movies or adaptations, but not sure where that'd go but run with it if you want. And how of course it's all subjective and just replying to all my posts saying "irrelevant it's trash" is like the worst posting possible.

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Psycho_Kenshin posted...
This is just internet 101, you're expressing what you like and don't in what I'd say are inappropriate responses to people having different taste in movies or books (you don't like this word here so I'll say "prose?") and just practically yelling about it. And very pointless.

I'd further inquire why you think art is something separate from horror movies or adaptations, but not sure where that'd go but run with it if you want. And how of course it's all subjective and just replying to all my posts saying "irrelevant it's trash" is like the worst posting possible.

I already explained how the artistic elements of the movie are irrelevant in this discussion. Since you can't seem to contain the discussion to relevant aspects, you no longer have a place in said discussion.

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Joyrock
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All movies and books are art, art isn't an "element" of it. So what you're saying doesn't make sense. And again with the overly dramatic and trollish responses, oh wow you're excusing me from the thread. You've gotta find a better way to talk about your opinions on things.

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Psycho_Kenshin posted...
All movies and books are art, art isn't an "element" of it. So what you're saying doesn't make sense. And again with the overly dramatic and trollish responses, oh wow you're excusing me from the thread. You've gotta find a better way to talk about your opinions on things.

Ok you're done, have fun now :)

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Joyrock
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Joyrock, I'm just sayin' for what it's worth I posted in one of your threads a lot. You're really this bad at social interaction and discussing opinions? Shocking heel turn.

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How to be a dick

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Psycho_Kenshin posted...
Joyrock, I'm just sayin' for what it's worth I posted in one of your threads a lot. You're really this bad at social interaction and discussing opinions? Shocking heel turn.

I'm actually not bad at it at all. You're just taking the discussion out of bounds, and we're not going there. You were discussion how it was still a good adaption without sticking to the source material, but then you go off discussing aspects that had NOTHING to do with it being an adaption. It had artistic elements(though not really enough to make up for the rest of the film) but they were completely irrelevant to it being an adaption, and it was not just unfaithful to the source it was borderline insulting, in many places going completely against the source material.

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Joyrock
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everyone remembers the first time they try to argue with joyrock

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Sir Cobain posted...
everyone remembers the first time they try to argue with joyrock
And pretty much everyone says that because they got frustrated that I actually knew what I was talking about and proved them wrong. Pretty decisively, in most cases.

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Joyrock
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Psycho_Kenshin posted...
I think this can all be summed up by you not being able to step back and take a look at what other people might think. You're describing all these rules and boundaries on the conversation that nobody else except you has any notion of.

And again you're just not getting it when you say the movie The Shining has "artistic elements" which we shouldn't talk about, but we can talk about it as a "horror movie". A horror movie is a piece of art (or entertainment), and it's reviewed in a subjective way, and that's what we're talking about. That you apparently don't like the word art to be used when reviewing a horror movie, well that's a bit of a roadblock.

Actually I'm describing the discussion that we're having. It's pretty simple.

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Joyrock
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I think this can all be summed up by you not being able to step back and take a look at what other people might think. You're describing all these rules and boundaries on the conversation that nobody else except you has any notion of.

And again you're just not getting it when you say the movie The Shining has "artistic elements" which we shouldn't talk about, but we can talk about it as a "horror movie". A horror movie is a piece of art (or entertainment), and it's reviewed in a subjective way, and that's what we're talking about. That you apparently don't like the word art to be used when reviewing a horror movie, well that's a bit of a roadblock.

And of course, you've got this weird ego thing going on in regards to taste in entertainment. You're "decisively" proving somebody wrong on the fact that you don't like the horror movie The Shining?

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That brief reply you just made didn't really comment on what it was replying to in any way. If you're actually interested in having a discussion on something, why not comment on this whole definition of the word art thing that seems to be a thing for you?

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Psycho_Kenshin posted...
That brief reply you just made didn't really comment on what it was replying to in any way. If you're actually interested in having a discussion on something, why not comment on this whole definition of the word art thing that seems to be a thing for you?

Because it's irrelevant, as I have stated.

Discussion over. Feel free to go on, but this is my last reply on the matter.

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Joyrock
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I know one thing that is relevant, everybody check out the movie Total Recall from 1990, it's classic.

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Psycho_Kenshin posted...
I know one thing that is relevant, everybody check out the movie Total Recall from 1990, it's classic.

It's decent :)

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Joyrock
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Oh look guys, joyrock's making the "last response" ultimatum after being revealed as condescending and immature. What a tool.

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Westbrick posted...
Oh look guys, joyrock's making the "last response" ultimatum after being revealed as condescending and immature. What a tool.

Except I wasn't revealed as either.

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Joyrock
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I love when, every few weeks, joyrock comes into a topic screaming "I wanna be the worst user on B8, I wanna! F*** MWC, ME ME ME!".

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Except I wasn't revealed as either.

You're taking a critically acclaimed movie and considering it "trash" without a tinge of humility or subjectivity. I know this can't be your first online discussion about art, but it sure seems that way.

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Westbrick posted...
Except I wasn't revealed as either.

You're taking a critically acclaimed movie and considering it "trash" without a tinge of humility or subjectivity. I know this can't be your first online discussion about art, but it sure seems that way.

Actually the movie has some pretty diverse opinions on it, and upon release was generally disliked. There are a good deal of arguments both for and against it.

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Joyrock
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Post one.

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From: OctilIery | #027
adaption

is this a hipster douche movie reviewer preferred spelling or am I just out of the loop

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Actually the movie has some pretty diverse opinions on it, and upon release was generally disliked. There are a good deal of arguments both for and against it.

This is the semblance of a reasonable opinion. This, however...

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/shining/

...indicates that the current critical consensus is overwhelmingly positive. So long as you can accept this, you're free to criticize the movie (not the people, the movie) however you like.

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tereziWright posted...
Post one.

King has several complaints about it, for one. One of the big(and most valid) complaints is that the removal of supernatural elements from the book made Jack much less sympathetic and unmotivated. IT's basically about a family that lives with an obviously bad guy - not someone who takes the descent into madness or anything of the sort.

The film drags, and despite memorable imagery establishes little real mood until later in the movie.

"Parts of the film are chilling, charged with a relentlessly claustrophobic terror, but others fall flat. Not that religion has to be involved in horror, but a visceral skeptic such as Kubrick just couldn't grasp the sheer inhuman evil of The Overlook Hotel. So he looked, instead, for evil in the characters and made the film into a domestic tragedy with only vaguely supernatural overtones. That was the basic flaw: because he couldn't believe, he couldn't make the film believable to others. What's basically wrong with Kubrick's version of The Shining is that it's a film by a man who thinks too much and feels too little; and that's why, for all its virtuoso effects, it never gets you by the throat and hangs on the way real horror should."

On top of that, the acting frequently falls flat. Nicholson has pretty much a singular, flat personality throughout the movie, and Shelly Duvall is abysmal, and was even the source of one of the two Razzie nominations the film got(the other being worst director).

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Joyrock
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Westbrick posted...
Actually the movie has some pretty diverse opinions on it, and upon release was generally disliked. There are a good deal of arguments both for and against it.

This is the semblance of a reasonable opinion. This, however...

Actually that entire statement is fact. It is stating the existence of such opinions, and thus it is impossible for it to be opinion itself - it's either fact or fiction, and in this case is fact.

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Joyrock
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As you know, joyrock, initial reception is an absolutely horrific way to judge the aesthetic quality of a film; by that standard, Citizen Kane is garbage. It's also disingenuous to take the criticisms of the author of the source material all that seriously, especially when things were changed.

Out of all the claims you listed, only one was specific: that removal of supernatural elements (which were there, arguably; just implied) made things less believable. The rest- bad acting, poor pacing- are unspecific and consequently unverifiable.

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Actually that entire statement is fact. It is stating the existence of such opinions, and thus it is impossible for it to be opinion itself - it's either fact or fiction, and in this case is fact.

Every "statement of fact" one makes also includes value judgments about which information is relevant and which isn't, meaning that opinion lies at the heart of "factual" claims. In your case, you failed to mention that modern critical conception is overwhelmingly positive.

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By the way, if you're looking for a collection of critical opinions rotten tomatoes isthe wrong way to go because of a misleading system - it doesn't gather how much the average person liked it, just what percentage liked it. Metacritic is superior:

http://www.metacritic.com/movie/the-shining

While both user and critical suggest it was liked, neither is "overwhelmingly positive"

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Joyrock
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There is literally no source for anything worse than Metacritic.

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