Board 8 > The Official Topic of Freedom and Liberty (Ron Paul 2012)

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foolm0ron 04/13/12 5:42:00 PM #451:	This interview is awesome. It's really interesting seeing how the reporter works. First, he throws out some BS corrupted version of what RP thinks, then when RP calls him out, he immediately takes it back and gives the real version. He obviously knows the real positions that RP takes, but he still can't resist throwing out some nonsense for shock value to try to portray RP worse by association. -- _foolmo_ 'You are obviously intelligent and insightful' - Sir Chris about me <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883653] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> This interview is awesome. It's really interesting seeing how the reporter works. First, he throws out some BS corrupted version of what RP thinks, then when RP calls him out, he immediately takes it back and gives the real version. He obviously knows the real positions that RP takes, but he still can't resist throwing out some nonsense for shock value to try to portray RP worse by association. -- _foolmo_'You are obviously intelligent and insightful' - Sir Chris about me </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DeepsPraw 04/13/12 5:44:00 PM #452:	From: foolm0ron \| #450 Man, old people using twitter So weird #tcot is hilarious and one of the best things to troll on Twitter -- oh yeah. i am a dog. i smoke cigarettes and vote democratic because i am classy - the dog http://i.imgur.com/x4Tma.jpg <cite>DeepsPraw posted [p:883654] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> From: foolm0ron \| #450Man, old people using twitterSo weird#tcot is hilarious and one of the best things to troll on Twitter -- oh yeah. i am a dog. i smoke cigarettes and vote democratic because i am classy - the doghttp://i.imgur.com/x4Tma.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 04/13/12 5:59:00 PM #453:	Stopped watching when RP referred to abortion as an act of violence. <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:883655] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Stopped watching when RP referred to abortion as an act of violence. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/13/12 6:05:00 PM #454:	Yeah the reporter pounced on that as well. I don't see the big deal about that. -- _foolmo_ 'To be foolmo'd is to be better opinion'd.' - Blairville <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883656] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Yeah the reporter pounced on that as well. I don't see the big deal about that. -- _foolmo_'To be foolmo'd is to be better opinion'd.' - Blairville </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 04/13/12 6:30:00 PM #455:	Abortion is not an act of violence, is what the big deal is. <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:883657] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Abortion is not an act of violence, is what the big deal is. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 04/13/12 6:30:00 PM #456:	From: Mr Lasastryke \| #455 Abortion is not an act of violence, is what the big deal is. So if someone poisoned you with the sole intention of you dying, what would you call that exactly? -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:883658] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> From: Mr Lasastryke \| #455Abortion is not an act of violence, is what the big deal is.So if someone poisoned you with the sole intention of you dying, what would you call that exactly? -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpghttp://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 04/13/12 6:32:00 PM #457:	So if someone poisoned you with the sole intention of you dying, what would you call that exactly? Yes, because me getting poisoned with the intention of me dying is exactly like an abortion. <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:883659] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> So if someone poisoned you with the sole intention of you dying, what would you call that exactly?Yes, because me getting poisoned with the intention of me dying is exactly like an abortion. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 04/13/12 8:20:00 PM #458:	Of course it's violence. It's physical force to terminate something. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:883660] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Of course it's violence. It's physical force to terminate something. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pickyour 7 time champion, Link. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 04/13/12 9:31:00 PM #459:	http://www.businessinsider.com/ron-paul-would-move-us-israel-embassy-to-capital-jerusalem-2012-4 This is one of the dumbest articles ever, and the fact that his "advisors" were surprised by this just goes to show you how stupid his "advisors" are... -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:883661] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> http://www.businessinsider.com/ron-paul-would-move-us-israel-embassy-to-capital-jerusalem-2012-4This is one of the dumbest articles ever, and the fact that his "advisors" were surprised by this just goes to show you how stupid his "advisors" are... -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpghttp://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/13/12 9:42:00 PM #460:	From: Mr Lasastryke \| #455 Abortion is not an act of violence, is what the big deal is. Do you disagree that it should be a state's rights thing though? -- _foolmo_ 'It's easy to get yourself in trouble if you start quoting people who don't like you in your signature' - Mods <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883662] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> From: Mr Lasastryke \| #455Abortion is not an act of violence, is what the big deal is.Do you disagree that it should be a state's rights thing though? -- _foolmo_'It's easy to get yourself in trouble if you start quoting people who don't like you in your signature' - Mods </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 04/14/12 4:14:00 PM #461:	If Truth in Advertising laws applied to street signs: -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:883663] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> If Truth in Advertising laws applied to street signs: -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpghttp://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 04/14/12 4:30:00 PM #462:	Of course it's violence. It's physical force to terminate something. Actually, according to Wikipedia: Violence is defined by the World Health Organization as the intentional use of physical force or power, threatened or actual, against oneself, another person, or against a group or community, that either results in or has a high likelihood of resulting in injury, death, psychological harm, maldevelopment or deprivation. Now, whatever your views on abortion are, I think it's a stretch to say a fetus is a person, group or community. Do you disagree that it should be a state's rights thing though? No. <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:883664] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Of course it's violence. It's physical force to terminate something.Actually, according to Wikipedia:Violence is defined by the World Health Organization as the intentional use of physical force or power, threatened or actual, against oneself, another person, or against a group or community, that either results in or has a high likelihood of resulting in injury, death, psychological harm, maldevelopment or deprivation.Now, whatever your views on abortion are, I think it's a stretch to say a fetus is a person, group or community.Do you disagree that it should be a state's rights thing though?No. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 04/14/12 5:59:00 PM #463:	If a corporation is a person, surely a fetus is? -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:883665] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> If a corporation is a person, surely a fetus is? -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pickyour 7 time champion, Link. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/14/12 6:05:00 PM #464:	From: Mr Lasastryke \| #462 I think it's a stretch to say a fetus is a person, group or community You realize that this is just your position, right? Lots of people believe life begins at conception, lots believe it begins at birth, and there's a whole spectrum in between of what people believe. There is no concrete legal definition of life, which kind of muddies the water about what is violence. Even if there was a concrete definition, there is no point during the period from conception to birth that most people would be happy with being the official beginning of life. There's just too many people on too many sides to appease them all. So really, it doesn't matter what you think, or I think, or scientists, or the WHO, or Ron Paul, or anyone. It just matters that you can believe what you want without being forced to accept other people's beliefs, and by giving this right to the states, there will be abortion states and no-abortion states, so everyone will be able to choose. -- _foolmo_ 'Illegal activities is a slight misnomer, most of it is not related to material that is actually illegal.' - nintendogrl1 <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883666] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> From: Mr Lasastryke \| #462I think it's a stretch to say a fetus is a person, group or communityYou realize that this is just your position, right? Lots of people believe life begins at conception, lots believe it begins at birth, and there's a whole spectrum in between of what people believe.There is no concrete legal definition of life, which kind of muddies the water about what is violence. Even if there was a concrete definition, there is no point during the period from conception to birth that most people would be happy with being the official beginning of life. There's just too many people on too many sides to appease them all.So really, it doesn't matter what you think, or I think, or scientists, or the WHO, or Ron Paul, or anyone. It just matters that you can believe what you want without being forced to accept other people's beliefs, and by giving this right to the states, there will be abortion states and no-abortion states, so everyone will be able to choose. -- _foolmo_'Illegal activities is a slight misnomer, most of it is not related to material that is actually illegal.' - nintendogrl1 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
JDTAY 04/14/12 6:07:00 PM #465:	*SmartMuffin posted...* If Truth in Advertising laws applied to street signs: Damn, Smuffin, I'm surprised they haven't made you a city planner yet. -- PSN: JDTAY87 <cite>JDTAY posted [p:883667] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> SmartMuffin posted...If Truth in Advertising laws applied to street signs:Damn, Smuffin, I'm surprised they haven't made you a city planner yet. -- PSN: JDTAY87 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 04/15/12 3:32:00 AM #466:	You realize that this is just your position, right? Lots of people believe life begins at conception, lots believe it begins at birth, and there's a whole spectrum in between of what people believe. Life does not begin at conception. Just because "lots of people" believe otherwise doesn't mean they're right. Even if there was a concrete definition, there is no point during the period from conception to birth that most people would be happy with being the official beginning of life. 1) I'm pretty sure there is a concrete definition - look up "life" in the dictionary. 2) We should worry about what the correct definition of the beginning of life is, not the one that "makes most people happy." <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:883668] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> You realize that this is just your position, right? Lots of people believe life begins at conception, lots believe it begins at birth, and there's a whole spectrum in between of what people believe.Life does not begin at conception. Just because "lots of people" believe otherwise doesn't mean they're right.Even if there was a concrete definition, there is no point during the period from conception to birth that most people would be happy with being the official beginning of life.1) I'm pretty sure there is a concrete definition - look up "life" in the dictionary.2) We should worry about what the correct definition of the beginning of life is, not the one that "makes most people happy." </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
frankftw 04/15/12 8:08:00 AM #467:	From: Mr Lasastryke \| #466 Life does not begin at conception. Just because "lots of people" believe otherwise doesn't mean they're right. The same could be said of your belief. If there was a correct answer this wouldn't be debatable. Here are all the definitions of 'life' over at dictionary.com: the condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects and dead organisms, being manifested by growth through metabolism, reproduction, and the power of adaptation to environment through changes originating internally. the sum of the distinguishing phenomena of organisms, especially metabolism, growth, reproduction, and adaptation to environment. the animate existence or period of animate existence of an individual a corresponding state, existence, or principle of existence conceived of as belonging to the soul the general or universal condition of human existence It is illogical and against the working definitions to define the beginning of life based on the complexity of the organism. And I think we can all agree that life does not begin at unfertilized reproductive cells. Finishing up this deduction, it would seem that life would indeed begin at conception; a zygote certainly fits the first and third definitions and, depending on who you ask, the fourth (but that's not necessarily the debate at hand). -- [witty phrase including the guru champ SuperNiceDog] If there is one thing I know, it is that I know nothing. <cite>frankftw posted [p:883669] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> From: Mr Lasastryke \| #466Life does not begin at conception. Just because "lots of people" believe otherwise doesn't mean they're right.The same could be said of your belief. If there was a correct answer this wouldn't be debatable.Here are all the definitions of 'life' over at dictionary.com:the condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects and dead organisms, being manifested by growth through metabolism, reproduction, and the power of adaptation to environment through changes originating internally.the sum of the distinguishing phenomena of organisms, especially metabolism, growth, reproduction, and adaptation to environment.the animate existence or period of animate existence of an individuala corresponding state, existence, or principle of existence conceived of as belonging to the soulthe general or universal condition of human existenceIt is illogical and against the working definitions to define the beginning of life based on the complexity of the organism. And I think we can all agree that life does not begin at unfertilized reproductive cells. Finishing up this deduction, it would seem that life would indeed begin at conception; a zygote certainly fits the first and third definitions and, depending on who you ask, the fourth (but that's not necessarily the debate at hand). -- [witty phrase including the guru champ SuperNiceDog]If there is one thing I know, it is that I know nothing. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/15/12 10:35:00 AM #468:	From: Mr Lasastryke \| #466 1) I'm pretty sure there is a concrete definition - look up "life" in the dictionary. Hm, alright... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life "It is still a challenge for scientists and philosophers to define life in unequivocal terms." With like 6 different citations... multiple people have written long papers about how they can't define it 2) We should worry about what the correct definition of the beginning of life is, not the one that "makes most people happy." Definitely, but what is the "correct" one, then? I say because it's undefinable and a personal issue, it's the one that makes the most people happy. But obviously whatever you think is actually the correct one because you're the best. -- _foolmo_ 'To be foolmo'd is to be better opinion'd.' - Blairville <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883670] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> From: Mr Lasastryke \| #4661) I'm pretty sure there is a concrete definition - look up "life" in the dictionary.Hm, alright...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life"It is still a challenge for scientists and philosophers to define life in unequivocal terms."With like 6 different citations... multiple people have written long papers about how they can't define it2) We should worry about what the correct definition of the beginning of life is, not the one that "makes most people happy."Definitely, but what is the "correct" one, then? I say because it's undefinable and a personal issue, it's the one that makes the most people happy. But obviously whatever you think is actually the correct one because you're the best. -- _foolmo_'To be foolmo'd is to be better opinion'd.' - Blairville </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 04/15/12 3:08:00 PM #469:	I'll concede that it was pretentious of me to say that my definition of life is the only correct one. Definitely, but what is the "correct" one, then? I say because it's undefinable and a personal issue, it's the one that makes the most people happy. 1) It's not undefinable. Sure, there are multiple definitions of the word "life," but that does not mean it's not definable at all. 2) I very much disagree with the "it's a personal issue" bit - this reminds me of Muffin's "I have my own personal definition of the word 'Communist'" stance. Letting people have their own personal definitions of words instead of settling on a single correct one just makes everything more unclear and difficult for everybody. <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:883671] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> I'll concede that it was pretentious of me to say that my definition of life is the only correct one.Definitely, but what is the "correct" one, then? I say because it's undefinable and a personal issue, it's the one that makes the most people happy.1) It's not undefinable. Sure, there are multiple definitions of the word "life," but that does not mean it's not definable at all.2) I very much disagree with the "it's a personal issue" bit - this reminds me of Muffin's "I have my own personal definition of the word 'Communist'" stance. Letting people have their own personal definitions of words instead of settling on a single correct one just makes everything more unclear and difficult for everybody. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/15/12 3:27:00 PM #470:	From: Mr Lasastryke \| #469 2) I very much disagree with the "it's a personal issue" bit - this reminds me of Muffin's "I have my own personal definition of the word 'Communist'" stance. Letting people have their own personal definitions of words instead of settling on a single correct one just makes everything more unclear and difficult for everybody. Well I think the key here is that we're not talking about a dictionary definition of "life". We're talking about a legal definition. A definition that will be used as a basis to make laws regarding important personal liberties. Smuffin having his definition of "Communist" is dumb, sure, but when you tell him he's wrong and try to impose onto him the correct definition of the word, it doesn't affect anything. Like you said, it's purely a clarity and convenience issue. The definition of "life" is not just a clarity issue. It actually affects what people can and cannot do with their lives. So you really have to pay attention to what the consequences are for defining the term. My belief is that no matter what definition you choose, imposing that definition upon others is definitely wrong, because in doing so you are forcefully modifying their rights. That's why I said earlier that even if there WAS a 100% concrete definition of life, that wouldn't end the argument. That's why you can't just define "life" as what you think is obvious or simple, like any other word. Now we might differ because you probably don't care about the opinions of people that want to ban abortions. They're wrong, so why should their opinions change what my rights/beliefs are? That's exactly the point. And you can bet they feel exactly the same way about people who want to have abortions. Really, all anyone cares about is not having others' opinions/beliefs imposed on them. That's the root of pretty much every social, political, economic issue. And that is what Liberty protects. RP 2012. -- _foolmo_ 'I love you so much' - SineNomine <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883672] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> From: Mr Lasastryke \| #4692) I very much disagree with the "it's a personal issue" bit - this reminds me of Muffin's "I have my own personal definition of the word 'Communist'" stance. Letting people have their own personal definitions of words instead of settling on a single correct one just makes everything more unclear and difficult for everybody.Well I think the key here is that we're not talking about a dictionary definition of "life". We're talking about a legal definition. A definition that will be used as a basis to make laws regarding important personal liberties.Smuffin having his definition of "Communist" is dumb, sure, but when you tell him he's wrong and try to impose onto him the correct definition of the word, it doesn't affect anything. Like you said, it's purely a clarity and convenience issue.The definition of "life" is not just a clarity issue. It actually affects what people can and cannot do with their lives. So you really have to pay attention to what the consequences are for defining the term. My belief is that no matter what definition you choose, imposing that definition upon others is definitely wrong, because in doing so you are forcefully modifying their rights. That's why I said earlier that even if there WAS a 100% concrete definition of life, that wouldn't end the argument. That's why you can't just define "life" as what you think is obvious or simple, like any other word. Now we might differ because you probably don't care about the opinions of people that want to ban abortions. They're wrong, so why should their opinions change what my rights/beliefs are? That's exactly the point. And you can bet they feel exactly the same way about people who want to have abortions.Really, all anyone cares about is not having others' opinions/beliefs imposed on them. That's the root of pretty much every social, political, economic issue. And that is what Liberty protects. RP 2012. -- _foolmo_'I love you so much' - SineNomine </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 04/15/12 3:40:00 PM #471:	Actually, we don't differ on that - that's why I said I don't disagree with the idea that abortion should be a state's rights thing. Want to get an abortion? Go to a state where it's legal. You're pro-life? Move to a state where it's illegal. Everyone happy. Obviously, going or moving to a different state isn't necessarily as easy as I just made it sound, but this solution is still better than, say, Gingrich becoming president and making abortion illegal in every state. <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:883673] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Actually, we don't differ on that - that's why I said I don't disagree with the idea that abortion should be a state's rights thing. Want to get an abortion? Go to a state where it's legal. You're pro-life? Move to a state where it's illegal. Everyone happy.Obviously, going or moving to a different state isn't necessarily as easy as I just made it sound, but this solution is still better than, say, Gingrich becoming president and making abortion illegal in every state. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LordoftheMorons 04/15/12 3:50:00 PM #472:	Making every big decision a states rights thing isn't going to make everyone happy unless there are less than 6 such decisions -- No I'm not a damn furry. Looney Tunes are different. - Guiga I wanted Sonic/Shadow romance at that time, not sex. - MWE <cite>LordoftheMorons posted [p:883674] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Making every big decision a states rights thing isn't going to make everyone happy unless there are less than 6 such decisions -- No I'm not a damn furry. Looney Tunes are different. - GuigaI wanted Sonic/Shadow romance at that time, not sex. - MWE </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 04/15/12 3:54:00 PM #473:	I don't think everything should be a state's rights issue - that's why I'm not one of the raving RP fanboys! I don't think gay marriage should be one, for instance. <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:883675] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> I don't think everything should be a state's rights issue - that's why I'm not one of the raving RP fanboys! I don't think gay marriage should be one, for instance. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/15/12 3:56:00 PM #474:	Less than 6? What do you mean? But anyways, the trick is that you're not making anything a states rights thing. Everything already IS a states rights thing, people just like making everything a federal issue. -- _foolmo_ 'and out of the blue and completely unprovoked came foolmo and his insult' - Anagram <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883676] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Less than 6? What do you mean?But anyways, the trick is that you're not making anything a states rights thing. Everything already IS a states rights thing, people just like making everything a federal issue. -- _foolmo_'and out of the blue and completely unprovoked came foolmo and his insult' - Anagram </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LordoftheMorons 04/15/12 4:05:00 PM #475:	Because log_2 of 50 is less than 6. If people care about 6 or more issues, there's no way you can satisfy everyone by making a state for each person's person views on each issue. I mean if you still think that's how it should be that's fine, but you can't just dismiss arguments by saying someone can always move to a state that shares their beliefs. (also 5 max is saying there are only two positions on each issue, which is probably overly simplistic) -- No I'm not a damn furry. Looney Tunes are different. - Guiga I wanted Sonic/Shadow romance at that time, not sex. - MWE <cite>LordoftheMorons posted [p:883677] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Because log_2 of 50 is less than 6. If people care about 6 or more issues, there's no way you can satisfy everyone by making a state for each person's person views on each issue. I mean if you still think that's how it should be that's fine, but you can't just dismiss arguments by saying someone can always move to a state that shares their beliefs.(also 5 max is saying there are only two positions on each issue, which is probably overly simplistic) -- No I'm not a damn furry. Looney Tunes are different. - GuigaI wanted Sonic/Shadow romance at that time, not sex. - MWE </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/15/12 6:35:00 PM #476:	Oh yeah I see what you're saying. But you're doing that whole "oh your solution isn't perfect so it sucks" thing. I realize that it's impossible to please everyone. That doesn't mean my solution isn't better than yours. -- _foolmo_ 'To be foolmo'd is to be better opinion'd.' - Blairville <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883678] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Oh yeah I see what you're saying. But you're doing that whole "oh your solution isn't perfect so it sucks" thing. I realize that it's impossible to please everyone. That doesn't mean my solution isn't better than yours. -- _foolmo_'To be foolmo'd is to be better opinion'd.' - Blairville </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 04/15/12 7:19:00 PM #477:	From: LordoftheMorons \| #472 Making every big decision a states rights thing isn't going to make everyone happy unless there are less than 6 such decisions On the other hand, if you don't believe states should have the right to set policies, why should nations? In other words, if it's so terrible to ban abortions that we can't allow Arizona to do it, why do we allow Saudi Arabia to do it? Shouldn't we declare war on them and force them to have the exact same laws we do? -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:883679] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> From: LordoftheMorons \| #472Making every big decision a states rights thing isn't going to make everyone happy unless there are less than 6 such decisionsOn the other hand, if you don't believe states should have the right to set policies, why should nations?In other words, if it's so terrible to ban abortions that we can't allow Arizona to do it, why do we allow Saudi Arabia to do it? Shouldn't we declare war on them and force them to have the exact same laws we do? -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpghttp://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/15/12 7:22:00 PM #478:	From: SmartMuffin \| #477 Shouldn't we declare war on them and force them to have the exact same laws we do? Duh, what do you think "spreading democracy" means? -- _foolmo_ 'It's easy to get yourself in trouble if you start quoting people who don't like you in your signature' - Mods <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883680] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> From: SmartMuffin \| #477Shouldn't we declare war on them and force them to have the exact same laws we do?Duh, what do you think "spreading democracy" means? -- _foolmo_'It's easy to get yourself in trouble if you start quoting people who don't like you in your signature' - Mods </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 04/15/12 7:24:00 PM #479:	Most liberals are fundamentalists without knowing it. A surprising number of libertarians are fundamentalists without knowing it too. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:883681] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Most liberals are fundamentalists without knowing it. A surprising number of libertarians are fundamentalists without knowing it too. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pickyour 7 time champion, Link. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/15/12 9:47:00 PM #480:	Man, RP has the best sign out of everyone Obama's O thing was always pretty good, too, but wow Romney's looks terrible. -- _foolmo_ 'You are obviously intelligent and insightful' - Sir Chris about me <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883682] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Man, RP has the best sign out of everyoneObama's O thing was always pretty good, too, but wow Romney's looks terrible. -- _foolmo_'You are obviously intelligent and insightful' - Sir Chris about me </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 04/16/12 2:52:00 AM #481:	In other words, if it's so terrible to ban abortions that we can't allow Arizona to do it, why do we allow Saudi Arabia to do it? Shouldn't we declare war on them and force them to have the exact same laws we do? Arizona isn't comparable to Saudi Arabia, though. You don't have to declare war on Arizona to force them to allow abortions. <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:883683] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> In other words, if it's so terrible to ban abortions that we can't allow Arizona to do it, why do we allow Saudi Arabia to do it? Shouldn't we declare war on them and force them to have the exact same laws we do?Arizona isn't comparable to Saudi Arabia, though. You don't have to declare war on Arizona to force them to allow abortions. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/16/12 8:39:00 AM #482:	From: Mr Lasastryke \| #481 Arizona isn't comparable to Saudi Arabia, though. You don't have to declare war on Arizona to force them to allow abortions. Just like we don't need to declare war to force Saudi Arabia to allow abortions either. -- _foolmo_ 'he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance' - ertyu quoting Tidus <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883684] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> From: Mr Lasastryke \| #481Arizona isn't comparable to Saudi Arabia, though. You don't have to declare war on Arizona to force them to allow abortions.Just like we don't need to declare war to force Saudi Arabia to allow abortions either. -- _foolmo_'he says listen to my story this maybe are last chance' - ertyu quoting Tidus </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 04/16/12 10:27:00 AM #483:	Arizona isn't comparable to Saudi Arabia, though. You don't have to declare war on Arizona to force them to allow abortions. No, but you have to threaten it. In the end, if a state refuses to comply with federal laws, war will be declared on them and the feds will invade. The precedent for this was set with the civil war. -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:883685] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Arizona isn't comparable to Saudi Arabia, though. You don't have to declare war on Arizona to force them to allow abortions.No, but you have to threaten it. In the end, if a state refuses to comply with federal laws, war will be declared on them and the feds will invade. The precedent for this was set with the civil war. -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpghttp://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 04/16/12 11:00:00 AM #484:	The difference: Arizona ratified the US Constitution. If a state doesn't want to obey the supremacy clause of the Constitution, their remedy is not to ratify it in the first place. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:883686] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> The difference: Arizona ratified the US Constitution. If a state doesn't want to obey the supremacy clause of the Constitution, their remedy is not to ratify it in the first place. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pickyour 7 time champion, Link. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 04/16/12 11:28:00 AM #485:	Of course, if the Congress refuses to follow the constitution, that argument is sort of bunk. If you enter a contract with someone, and they break it, they then have no right to sue you if you break it too. -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:883687] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Of course, if the Congress refuses to follow the constitution, that argument is sort of bunk.If you enter a contract with someone, and they break it, they then have no right to sue you if you break it too. -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpghttp://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 04/16/12 11:34:00 AM #486:	Actually, they do in many cases. Your remedy in many situations is to sue them, not to break the contract yourself. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:883688] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Actually, they do in many cases. Your remedy in many situations is to sue them, not to break the contract yourself. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pickyour 7 time champion, Link. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 04/16/12 11:36:00 AM #487:	My point wasn't that the US Justice system is flawed. I was making more of an appeal to common sense... -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:883689] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> My point wasn't that the US Justice system is flawed. I was making more of an appeal to common sense... -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpghttp://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MRNlCEWATCH 04/16/12 11:38:00 AM #488:	oh ya go my romney -- no more mr. nice sess....hello mr. nice watch! somebody call the brinks truck! I INVENTED POSTING <cite>MRNlCEWATCH posted [p:883690] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> oh ya go my romney -- no more mr. nice sess....hello mr. nice watch!somebody call the brinks truck! I INVENTED POSTING </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 04/16/12 11:40:00 AM #489:	Well, if you want to view ratification as a contract, I think it makes perfect sense. Arizona has a forum to litigate its disputes with Congress, if it thinks Congress is not following the Constitution. That is the federal courts. Indeed, this is exactly what states do. They do something that contradicts federal law, and the case gets litigated. If Arizona, hypothetically, doesn't want to obey the authority of the courts, it shouldn't have ratified the Constitution in the first place. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:883691] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Well, if you want to view ratification as a contract, I think it makes perfect sense. Arizona has a forum to litigate its disputes with Congress, if it thinks Congress is not following the Constitution. That is the federal courts. Indeed, this is exactly what states do. They do something that contradicts federal law, and the case gets litigated.If Arizona, hypothetically, doesn't want to obey the authority of the courts, it shouldn't have ratified the Constitution in the first place. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pickyour 7 time champion, Link. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/16/12 11:40:00 AM #490:	sess how much hav u donated to the romneys? -- _foolmo_ mobile computer <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883692] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> sess how much hav u donated to the romneys? -- _foolmo_mobile computer </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 04/16/12 11:42:00 AM #491:	Poor Mittens spent something like $40 million of his own money on his 2008 campaign. That's like, a year's earnings.....and not just any year, but a fairly good, 20% return year. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:883693] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Poor Mittens spent something like $40 million of his own money on his 2008 campaign. That's like, a year's earnings.....and not just any year, but a fairly good, 20% return year. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pickyour 7 time champion, Link. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MRNlCEWATCH 04/16/12 11:44:00 AM #492:	0 dollars and 0 cents. Unlike pseudoliberal ultramarxist communist megamuslim Ron Paul, Romney believes and capitalism and has no need for my money. He's got plenty on his own. -- no more mr. nice sess....hello mr. nice watch! somebody call the brinks truck! I INVENTED POSTING <cite>MRNlCEWATCH posted [p:883694] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> 0 dollars and 0 cents.Unlike pseudoliberal ultramarxist communist megamuslim Ron Paul, Romney believes and capitalism and has no need for my money. He's got plenty on his own. -- no more mr. nice sess....hello mr. nice watch!somebody call the brinks truck! I INVENTED POSTING </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 04/16/12 11:44:00 AM #493:	If Arizona, hypothetically, doesn't want to obey the authority of the courts, it shouldn't have ratified the Constitution in the first place. Except the courts don't have the authority to contradict the constitution. Is it your position that the Supreme Court can outlaw free speech so long as it decides that's a good idea? What if the Supreme Court decides that the constitution clearly allows them to appoint Obama as dictator for life? You cool with that? Just because they vote on it 5-4? -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:883695] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> If Arizona, hypothetically, doesn't want to obey the authority of the courts, it shouldn't have ratified the Constitution in the first place.Except the courts don't have the authority to contradict the constitution. Is it your position that the Supreme Court can outlaw free speech so long as it decides that's a good idea? What if the Supreme Court decides that the constitution clearly allows them to appoint Obama as dictator for life? You cool with that? Just because they vote on it 5-4? -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpghttp://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/16/12 11:45:00 AM #494:	Damn I should switch over to him... way cheaper to support. I wonder why he's not more popular with poor people? -- _foolmo_ mobile computer <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883696] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Damn I should switch over to him... way cheaper to support. I wonder why he's not more popular with poor people? -- _foolmo_mobile computer </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 04/16/12 11:47:00 AM #495:	The Constitution delegates to them the power to decide what the Constitution says. This is unfortunately a problem with the US Constitution, because there is no one to overrule them short of an amendment. But it is hard to create a system that fixes this problem (there is always someone with final authority), and the framers did a very good job IMO in limiting it as much as possible. Also, remember that judges, like presidents, can be impeached. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:883697] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> The Constitution delegates to them the power to decide what the Constitution says. This is unfortunately a problem with the US Constitution, because there is no one to overrule them short of an amendment. But it is hard to create a system that fixes this problem (there is always someone with final authority), and the framers did a very good job IMO in limiting it as much as possible.Also, remember that judges, like presidents, can be impeached. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pickyour 7 time champion, Link. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SmartMuffin 04/16/12 11:49:00 AM #496:	no one to overrule them short of an amendment An amendment can't overrule them either if they decide it means something else. The first amendment is pretty damn clear. Didn't stop the Alien and Sedition act. Also, remember that judges, like presidents, can be impeached. By the President, right? Well why would he impeach them for making him a dictator? -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ <cite>SmartMuffin posted [p:883698] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> no one to overrule them short of an amendmentAn amendment can't overrule them either if they decide it means something else. The first amendment is pretty damn clear. Didn't stop the Alien and Sedition act.Also, remember that judges, like presidents, can be impeached.By the President, right? Well why would he impeach them for making him a dictator? -- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpghttp://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MRNlCEWATCH 04/16/12 11:49:00 AM #497:	*foolm0ron posted...* Damn I should switch over to him... way cheaper to support. I wonder why he's not more popular with poor people? Because they believe that Barack The Hussein Osama will save them with his Super-Euro Iron Curtain Change crap -- no more mr. nice sess....hello mr. nice watch! somebody call the brinks truck! I INVENTED POSTING <cite>MRNlCEWATCH posted [p:883699] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> foolm0ron posted...Damn I should switch over to him... way cheaper to support. I wonder why he's not more popular with poor people?Because they believe that Barack The Hussein Osama will save them with his Super-Euro Iron Curtain Change crap -- no more mr. nice sess....hello mr. nice watch!somebody call the brinks truck! I INVENTED POSTING </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 04/16/12 11:52:00 AM #498:	An amendment can't overrule them either if they decide it means something else. The first amendment is pretty damn clear. Didn't stop the Alien and Sedition act. You can word it in very clear language. Courts have followed amendments throughout US history. If we actually get a tyrannical court at some point in the future that simply doesn't care about the law (we haven't at any point in US History up until now), you would amend the constitution to get rid of judicial review. By the President, right? Well why would he impeach them for making him a dictator? No, by Congress, the same as for a President. Majority vote in the House to impeach, 2/3 in the Senate to remove from office. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pick your 7 time champion, Link. <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:883700] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> An amendment can't overrule them either if they decide it means something else. The first amendment is pretty damn clear. Didn't stop the Alien and Sedition act.You can word it in very clear language. Courts have followed amendments throughout US history. If we actually get a tyrannical court at some point in the future that simply doesn't care about the law (we haven't at any point in US History up until now), you would amend the constitution to get rid of judicial review.By the President, right? Well why would he impeach them for making him a dictator?No, by Congress, the same as for a President. Majority vote in the House to impeach, 2/3 in the Senate to remove from office. -- Congratulations to SuperNiceDog, Guru Winner, who was smart enough to pickyour 7 time champion, Link. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/16/12 11:54:00 AM #499:	So should we make a new topic? -- _foolmo_ mobile computer <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883701] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> So should we make a new topic? -- _foolmo_mobile computer </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
foolm0ron 04/16/12 11:54:00 AM #500:	Obamney can suck my D -- _foolmo_ mobile computer <cite>foolm0ron posted [p:883702] in The Offici... [t:62176259]...</cite> <quote> Obamney can suck my D -- _foolmo_mobile computer </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Board 8 > The Official Topic of Freedom and Liberty (Ron Paul 2012) (+) Yeah! (+)

Board 8 > The Official Topic of Freedom and Liberty (Ron Paul 2012)