Really? Personally I find I Only Have Eyes For You to be a highlight of the season, top 5 easily. Buffy fighting with her own guilt of what happened to Angel, whether or not she's actually to blame for it, and in the attempt to block that emotion becomes extra condemning of James. I mean, the episode is really not even a MOTW episode, it's all Buffy's inner guilt and the episode itself is an external portrayal of that struggle which is why the episode doesn't wrap up with her beating the "bad guy", it wraps up with her realizing that it's OK for her to forgive herself.
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Nominate B.B. Hood for CB IX http://miniurl.org/ntI
This is a joke right? People don't actually love IOHEFY this much right?
I didn't think it was the worst episode of the season, but I certainly don't think of it as a great episode. Or even a really good episode. It's just forgettable to me. And I'm a Bangel shipper so I should like it more!
-- (Maniac64 at work) Guns don't kill people, Kinder eggs do. I saw it in a post on GameFAQs. ~FAHtastic
tbqh it has been so many years since I have seen this show that I barely ever know what the writeups are talking about and don't really remember anything except bits and pieces of this episode.
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I'm "kind of a big deal". http://img.imgcake.com/cyclo/Cyclopngegpngre.png
I sometimes have to check to remember one off MOTW episodes, particularly in Season 1. Otherwise I have watched most the big eps like 8 times so I'm good. Season 3 and 4 I should be be remembering with no problems as those are the ones I tend to watch straight through (Season 2 I just watch the big or really fun eps and skip the rest)
-- (Maniac64 at work) Guns don't kill people, Kinder eggs do. I saw it in a post on GameFAQs. ~FAHtastic
There's one great scene in IOHEFY (two I guess if I count the Spike reveal at the end), but that's it. The rest of it is sub-par compared to what I've come to expect. And when that scene happened, it was obvious that it was what the entire episode had been building up to, so everything that had already happened just felt kind of meaningless in some way. Sure, the stuff with Giles still lamenting the loss of Miss Calendar was nice, but it wasn't enough. I don't know, a better plot overall would've helped as well.
Season 2, Episode 20: Go Fish
I wasn't too thrilled with another MOTW episode given how invested I am in the main arc at the moment, but this one wasn't too bad I guess. I wasn't too engaged in the plot, but I guess I didn't expect the coach to be the villain, nor the method he used. It brought up interesting points in the Xander-Cordelia relationship which was nice to see, and Cordelia's bit of character growth during this episode was a decent scene for her.
The humor seemed a little off this episode, though. Willow wasn't funny in her "investigator Willow" role, and Xander seemed to be trying too hard. Buffy was probably the funniest, really. She's good in her humor, but it's not often she rises above Giles or Xander.
Willow teaching a class is so lame. When does it ever happen that a student is chosen to be a long-term substitute teacher? I'm not willing to suspend disbelief on that point.
I hope they have something planned for Principal Snyder. I get tired of thinking every time he is on screen that he knows more than he lets on. It seems, and I'm hoping, that it will be a plot point in Season 3.
Overall, this was a pretty forgettable episode meant to fill space during a long season.
The next episode has two parts. Color me excited. I'll watched those later today, probably.
EDIT: Actually, it appears the next two episodes are the season finale. I guess I just figured it'd be a 24 episode season. Not complaining, though. Not complaining at all.
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snowpork I wanna be a SuperNiceDog when I grow up!
go fish...and you were complaining about the last episode being season 1 levels of dumb...
i don't think there is an episode like go fish in the near future. kinda the last of a dying breed. not to use tv.com rankings as a strong indicator, but go fish scored an average of 7.9, the lowest ranked episode for season 3 is 8.0.
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There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not finding out
1. Passion 2. Becoming Part 2 3. Innocence 4. Halloween 5. Becoming part 1 6. What's My Line Part 1 7. What's My Line Part 2 8. Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered 9. School Hard 10. Surprise 11. Lie to Me 12. Phases (I fully admit to Oz bias here)
Not even Top 12. Though apparently I like my comedy far more than you.
i don't think there is an episode like go fish in the near future. kinda the last of a dying breed. not to use tv.com rankings as a strong indicator, but go fish scored an average of 7.9, the lowest ranked episode for season 3 is 8.0.
Well there is definitely a worse one in Season 4. Joss even apologized for it on a piece of paper that came with the DVDs
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"Hope is allowed to be stupid, unwise, and naive." ~Sir Chris
Sad news is that my laptop charger done broke on me. Luckily, it had stopped working for a bit a couple of days ago and I put in an order for a new one. It should hopefully be here...well, probably I guess Tuesday because of tomorrow being Sunday and Monday being a holiday. How lame. 1-3 day shipping is a damn lie.
Hey, you guys, I just wanted to come back and say I take back what I said. The episodes started picking up right after my post, and Xander is now right back to form and just the way I like him. I'm deep in season four now and it's still going strong. Sorry for doubting. XD
ZaziGuado posted... Sad news is that my laptop charger done broke on me. Luckily, it had stopped working for a bit a couple of days ago and I put in an order for a new one. It should hopefully be here...well, probably I guess Tuesday because of tomorrow being Sunday and Monday being a holiday. How lame. 1-3 day shipping is a damn lie.
I take it you watch Buffy on your laptop?
If you want the DVDs you can borrow them from me. We can find some meeting place between IC and CR.
-- (Maniac64 at work) Guns don't kill people, Kinder eggs do. I saw it in a post on GameFAQs. ~FAHtastic
And yeah, I watched the show through Netflix on my laptop. I like watching it on the laptop because it forces me to put all my attention on the show. I don't want to risk chance of getting distracted by having it on the tv. I would, actually, be interested in seeing the DVDs sometime, though. I'm into special features and the occasional commentary.
Not sure when I'll get started on the finale. I might here in fifteen minutes, or I might tonight, or I might tomorrow. Have to see how I'm feeling and how my night goes.
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snowpork I wanna be a SuperNiceDog when I grow up!
From: muddersmilk | #204 This is a joke right? People don't actually love IOHEFY this much right?
I didn't think it was the worst episode of the season, but I certainly don't think of it as a great episode. Or even a really good episode. It's just forgettable to me. And I'm a Bangel shipper so I should like it more!
I don't get all the love for it either. Too cheesy for me. But not awful, just average.
Best episodes of Season 2: 1. Passion 2. Becoming, Part II 3. Innocence 4. Becoming, Part I 5. Surprise 6. Lie to Me 7. School Hard 8. Halloween 9. Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered 10. What's My Line? Part 2
Interesting episode. Lots of backstory, which was much appreciated. A very good ending with awesome suspense created for the next episode. A return of an old friend followed by her sudden death. I can definitely tell this is all building up to something huge. My favorite scene was the one in the library where Xander calls everyone crazy saying that Angel needs to die. Very powerful and very well acted.
I feel bad because I don't really feel like writing much tonight, so this episode, and part 2 which I haven't decided if I'm going to watch tonight or not, probably won't get worthy thought dumps. I enjoyed this episode, though. It was better than What's My Line: Part 1 because it didn't feel like pure setup.
Things I'm looking forward to in the finale: Spike's return, see if anything more happens with Kendra or if she is truly dead, ultimate showdown between Angelus and Buffy, bat**** crazy Drusilla actions Umm, and pretty much everything else. Here's hoping it lives up to the high expectations.
Whistler is an interesting character. At first I thought it was Oz doing the voice overs, but that would make no sense so I quickly dismissed it. I'm curious to see if he is shown just in flashbacks to Angel's history or if he make an appearance in the present day. I like the idea of a demon not being completely evil, though I don't consider Whistler a "good" guy at this time. He just seems like someone who wants to make situations interesting. The things he said, while I don't remember them at this time, I remember enjoying.
I don't know. I'm hoping I get to see more of him in Part 2, which I'll be watching now.
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snowpork I wanna be a SuperNiceDog when I grow up!
Sigh...It sucks so much knowing that Angel comes back. That ending was pretty amazing and would've been a perfect ending to Angel's character. That final scene between Buffy and Angel was pretty spectacular, and even though I've been largely against the Buffy-Angel relationship, it was still pretty sad to see her stab him like that.
It also sucks knowing that Spike is coming back, because now his reappearance won't be as big of a deal for me. He's a great character, but I'm curious as to what makes him all goody good (if truly ever) with the gang.
There's not really much I can say. Everything was pulled off wonderfully. The serious scenes were top notch acting, and SMG should be applauded for the job she did in them. The Xander-Willow moment was touching, but I don't like it because Xander is with Cordelia and he needs to stop being all over Buffy and Willow and I don't look forward to that arc where Xander and Cordelia have to break up.
I've been having sort of writer's block when it comes to these lately, so if anybody wants to hear about anything specific, just ask and I'll tell them.
From: Ness26 | #226 Opinion on what Xander said to Buffy as she went to go fight Angel?
I liked it, and it was a really smart thing to say, whether he said it for her sake or because he just didn't like Angel. I agreed with him when he initially said that Angel didn't deserve his soul back and deserved to die, so I enjoyed the line. Don't want Buffy holding back because she's waiting for a restoration spell to kick in.
From: CoolCly | #227 And Xander's obvious uncomfortable attitude when talking to the gang after everything was over?
I didn't really pick up on that if there was a conscious effort to make him look that way. I mean, I guess on second look he makes face motions after the idea of Buffy and Angel spending time together because he was restored, but I assume he always does that.
And I agree that Spike was pretty ace this episode. I look forward to seeing more of him.
From: Ness26 | #226 Opinion on what Xander said to Buffy as she went to go fight Angel?
I liked it, and it was a really smart thing to say, whether he said it for her sake or because he just didn't like Angel. I agreed with him when he initially said that Angel didn't deserve his soul back and deserved to die, so I enjoyed the line. Don't want Buffy holding back because she's waiting for a restoration spell to kick in.
YES! You have no idea how controversial this is. I have had to argue it on so many occasions with people who despised Xander for this moment and consider what he did to be completely unforgivable. Never mind that if he tells the truth Buffy is going to lose that fight, die, and the world will either end or soul filled Angel will have to sacrifice himself to the portal on his own.
-- (Maniac64 at work) Guns don't kill people, Kinder eggs do. I saw it in a post on GameFAQs. ~FAHtastic
He remembers what he does when he was evil. That's kind of the point of the course. So after the shock wore off he would likely be able to figure it out.
Unless Angelus didn't know about that method of closing the portal, which could be the case. It's been awhile since I watched Becoming.
-- (Maniac64 at work) Guns don't kill people, Kinder eggs do. I saw it in a post on GameFAQs. ~FAHtastic
My Immortal posted... I don't disagree with what Xander did, but I disagree with his reasons. He didn't do it to safe Buffy, he did it to kill Angel.
Oh that was definitely part of it, he never bothers to hide his feelings towards Angel, but I think he also understood that Buffy would hold back if she knew the truth. We've seen that all season and Xander is good at seeing stuff like that.
I would bet it was a little of both.
I'll have to listen to the commentary for that ep tonight and see if Joss mentions it. I feel like he did.
-- (Maniac64 at work) Guns don't kill people, Kinder eggs do. I saw it in a post on GameFAQs. ~FAHtastic
From: CoolCly | #239 The movie is barely canon >_>
It's worse than season 1.
Yeah, they pretty much replaced it with the comic version (which isn't great, but better than the movie and actually fits what gets described in the show).
A very impressive step up in quality from Season 1. Great plots, extraordinary villains, consistent quality, good humor, and great character development. I'm hoping there is more of the same, and even better, ahead. That's about all I can really put into words. Just not much to criticize.
My favorite thing about Season 2 was how much they made the overarching plot-centric episodes really count. The best episodes are those dealing with Spike and Angelus, which is wonderful because when you are invested in the characters like that, it's good that their screen time and plots are executed so well. Episodes like School Hard, Innocence, and Passion are the highlights of the season. I'm glad it's not MotW episodes that don't have as much effect on the main plot.
Character rankings: Angelus - oozed charisma and commanded every scene he was in. brilliantly written and acted Spike - needed more screen time this season, and a bigger involvement in the season conclusion. Giles - staying the course, and i'm excited to learn more about Ripper Giles Buffy - SMG does such a good job with the character, and it's great that we seem to be getting out of the "i just want to be a teenage dammit" phase Xander - really stepped it up. became less obnoxious and his pining over all the females became less obvious. also had good humor lines throughout the season Drusilla - the actress did a wonderful job giving her a creepy vibe. i hope there's more in store for this character. Angel - he's good, and hopefully he can retain some of the cutthroat tendencies of Angelus because I'm sad to see those go Cordelia - probably improved the most from season 1 to 2, but that wasn't really a tall task. I actually enjoy her now, though, so that's saying something Willow - she just kind of annoys me. needs some better character development. Oz - just kill him off already.
I won't include Principal Snyder in the rankings, but I'll mention him. I really hope they have something planned for him, because it's obvious he knows stuff, at the very least that they live on a Hellmouth. I really don't like him, but in a good way. I'm not supposed to like him.
Top 5 Episodes: Passion Innocence Becoming Part 2 Lie to Me School Hard HM: What's My Line? Part 2, When She Was Bad, Becoming Part 1
As I said, I most enjoyed the main plot episodes, which is awesome. I hope this trend continues.
That's about all I have right now. I'm going to start Season 3 at the conclusion of this post. If anybody wants to ask me anything about Season 2 or know more of my thoughts on certain parts, I'll be more than happy to answer. Hopefully I get out of this writing funk soon.
As to address previous things, I'm surprised the Xander line is even a debate. It seemed pretty cut and dry to me.
Also, I forgot to mention that I liked the whole Buffy leaving town thing. I'll be interested in seeing how they handle that to start Season 3. It was a good scene to end the season on.
This episode started rather slow and I found myself not enjoying it, but when it picked up it was pretty good. I enjoyed the callback of "Lily" from Season 2. That was an interesting move. I also enjoyed the opening scene with Xander, Willow, and Oz taking on the vampires. It was an fun subplot watching them attempt to neutralize the vampire population with limited success. I would've liked a little more Giles-Buffy's Mom interaction this episode, but I understand there was a lot to cover.
My favorite scene was Buffy's uprising scene where she threw away the Anne name and started kicking ass again. Serious Buffy is nice, but wisecracking Buffy is better.
The Angel-Buffy stuff is probably going to be interesting. I expect more dreams and such like that before Angel comes back.
From: Djungelurban | #243 I'm so confused by your hatred of Willow... She definitely my fave on the show, even at that point... But to each his own...
I don't hate Willow, the character just annoys me. For example, the scene between her and Oz in this last episode where she kept getting down on him for repeating a grade. She has this uber smart nerd thing going and it's kind of lame. I especially hated how she was teaching that damn class last season. I'm not going to suspend disbelief for that, especially with authority as hard-headed as Principal Snyder.
From: ZaziGuado | #245 I especially hated how she was teaching that damn class last season. I'm not going to suspend disbelief for that, especially with authority as hard-headed as Principal Snyder.
It was a computer class and it was in the 90's. I mean, just going by my personal experience, pretty sure half my class was a better computer teacher than our actual teacher, in fact, most of the actual teaching was being done by me and 2-3 other guys in the class, not by the teacher (we taught him some stuff too though) and Willow is a computer wiz on top of that. Overall, putting her in charge of the lessons seems like a totally logical move to me by a principal that really doesn't give a crap...
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Nominate B.B. Hood for CB IX http://miniurl.org/ntI
Yeah you really don't need to suspend disbelief for that at all, because there shouldn't be disbelief to suspend. That kind of stuff happened back then- my older sister was in a computer class being taught 90% of the time by her boyfriend who was in the same grade as her.
First off, I forgot to mention in the first episode that I enjoy the new opening. Seeing Seth Green in the credits actually makes me more positive and hopeful about his character. Plus, I still love the Power Rangers vibe that the music gives me.
The most important thing about this episode is probably the back and forth between Buffy and everyone else. I'm not sure how popular of a viewpoint this is, but I thought her friends were being total douchebags about everything. Yes, Buffy ran away and that sucks and she caused all sorts of worry. Why does that mean they need to be jerks about it? I'd say the pressures of being a slayer are hard for anyone who isn't one to understand, and I would think two years being friends with her would allow everyone to see that. Instead they give her the cold shoulder and turn what was intended to be a small gathering to reconnect into an uncomfortable gathering of people who really don't give a **** about her. It annoyed me when it seemed like they were winning the war of words, because they don't have near as much ground to stand on, in my opinion. I don't see what gives everyone the right to criticize Buffy for mishandling a fate they could never understand.
The plot was an interesting one, and I hope they handle the house being destroyed by the legion of the undead in the next episode or coming episodes. I loved Giles line about the mask and "silly Americans." The humor was generally solid all around this episode.
And now to address the Willow witchcraft plot point. I know that there's a plot where Willow becomes evil or possessed or something. I think I caught an episode involving it evil Willow on TV once. I assume this is the avenue for that to happen. However, I didn't know when that occurred (I'm now assuming this season) or how long it occurred for. It's an arc I'm very excited for, though, and I hope it's one that gets extended play. Willow could certainly use the shake up in character that is more than "oh hey look at me I'm dating someone."
The scene between Giles and Snyder was delightful. The smirk on Giles' face throughout the dialogue was amazing, and the stiff forearm was the cherry on top. I'm excited to see further development of Snyder throughout the season, and what his political involvement with the Mayor and all that is.
I'd be fine with Angel staying out for a little while longer, but I wouldn't be surprised if he is addressed this next episode now that "How does Buffy come back?" and "How does Buffy readjust?" have both been settled. I wouldn't complain, though, because overarching plot episodes are my favorite.