Current Events > Why is Persona 5's third villain so bad...

(+) Yeah! (+)

Madarame and Kamoshida were great villains, they were fun to hate. The 3rd douche feel like a cartoon villain...

was he the drugs one?

MedeaLysistrata posted...

was he the drugs one?

Yup.... like it somehow felt like the least intimidating and he is a mafia boss

His threat was just so weak.. Youve got 3 weeks before I.. leak this picture I took of you standing imposingly towards me where my drugs and alcohol that are clearly not next to you are!!

Even the first two were infinitely more daunting.. youll get expelled and your future is fucked and youll have legal charges pressed against you and your future is fucked

The problem is that Kamishida was first, and probably one the strongest villains to showcase.

It also felt personal to all characters plus makoto who wasn't in the party yet

P5 is front loaded

ThisIsAKnoife posted...

His threat was just so weak.. Youve got 3 weeks before I.. leak this picture I took of you standing imposingly towards me where my drugs and alcohol that are clearly not next to you are!!

Even the first two were infinitely more daunting.. youll get expelled and your future is fucked and youll have legal charges pressed against you and your future is fucked

Keep in mind, this takes place in Japan where drugs is supremely looked down upon. People's careers actually ended because of them.

So in a Japanese context, that's a pretty big threat.

Yeah, his threat should have been better. Like he's a mafia boss, he should be threatening to kill you and your families or something.

But overall I felt that they did well with having the villains be increasingly bigger threats. First one only affected your school, second one affected students at multiple schools, third one affected an entire area of the city, and so on.

Ivynn posted...

Keep in mind, this takes place in Japan where drugs is supremely looked down upon. People's careers actually ended because of them.

So in a Japanese context, that's a pretty big threat.

Plus Joker can't get in more trouble given he's essentially out on probation and anything like this would land him in prison.

Kamoshida and Madarame had a personal connection towards someone from the Phantom Thieves which made you want to take them down even more. Kaneshiro, who the PTs and Makoto have just met, blackmailing them doesn't hit the same bases as Kamoshida physically abusing Ryuji + trying to Harvey Weinstein Ann or Madarame using his status as Yusuke's father figure to abuse Yusuke + steal his work. Both of which had been happening long before Joker had even entered the picture.

I liked his dungeon at least and the music too. But yeah, it's weak because he's the one that doesn't really have a personal connection to any of the cast before the dungeon starts. He was also more comedic than any of the others, almost like a Mementos quest character.

Kamoshida had an incredibly strong personal connection to multiple characters and was the most down to earth villain in that he wasn't even really a "villain" in that he wasn't fantastical or exaggerated, he was the type of guy we've all seen on the news and maybe even suffered under. Someone who crawled into a place of small scale power and impunity and exploited it to the hilt. The type of person that it's legitimately really hard to do anything about as a teen, especially in a society that's ordered by age and where rocking the boat is heavily frowned upon. It was incredibly well done.

ThisIsAKnoife posted...

His threat was just so weak.. Youve got 3 weeks before I.. leak this picture I took of you standing imposingly towards me where my drugs and alcohol that are clearly not next to you are!!

He also threatened to turn makoto into essentially a sex slave

so ya know

coolpal23 posted...

He also threatened to turn makoto into essentially a sex slave

so ya know

Yeah but I mean, any real investigation would be very likely to show that he was doing shady shit with students and she was just dumb enough to confront him.

I know Japan is hard on drugs and such, but everyone besides joker would probably get a slap on the wrist.

If this took place in America than yeah that would be laughed at, but I remember the music composer for Death Note getting sentenced to prison for possession of Marjuanna while the Rurouni Kenshin author gets a slap on the wrist for the possession of CP. I don't know man, Japan has weird priorities when it comes to drugs.

i completely forgot he existed by the end of the game. even his dungeon i got through faster than any other in the game lol

MarcyWarcy posted...

i completely forgot he existed by the end of the game. even his dungeon i got through faster than any other in the game lol

Unless I'm mistaken, but his dungeon is the only one you don't have to exit and re-enter outside of the calling card.

Ivynn posted...

Keep in mind, this takes place in Japan where drugs is supremely looked down upon. People's careers actually ended because of them.

So in a Japanese context, that's a pretty big threat.

There's also the cultural differences. Shame is a much bigger deal to the Japanese, whereas it's comparatively non-existent socially in the US.

legendary_zell posted...

I liked his dungeon at least and the music too. But yeah, it's weak because he's the one that doesn't really have a personal connection to any of the cast before the dungeon starts. He was also more comedic than any of the others, almost like a Mementos quest character.

Kamoshida had an incredibly strong personal connection to multiple characters and was the most down to earth villain in that he wasn't even really a "villain" in that he wasn't fantastical or exaggerated, he was the type of guy we've all seen on the news and maybe even suffered under. Someone who crawled into a place of small scale power and impunity and exploited it to the hilt. The type of person that it's legitimately really hard to do anything about as a teen, especially in a society that's ordered by age and where rocking the boat is heavily frowned upon. It was incredibly well done.

Yeah I am doing his palace right now and the song is great, not gonna lie. Although if I remember correctly Futaba had the best song

The palace hits different if you fail it and watch the cutscene. Makoto gets drugged up and used as a prostitute, and in her drugged up stupor she is so broken that she can only think to call Joker's name for help, and that's how the cops get Joker. Although they forgot to give Sae any unique dialogue about it

It was so depressing it just made me wanna give Queen a big hug, even though I think she's the worst of the waifus lol

But yeah, the stakes of the third villain may not seem as high as the first two since he doesn't really have a personal attachment to the party members. But clearly, the stakes are very high

NoxObscuras posted...

Yeah, his threat should have been better. Like he's a mafia boss, he should be threatening to kill you and your families or something.

But overall I felt that they did well with having the villains be increasingly bigger threats. First one only affected your school, second one affected students at multiple schools, third one affected an entire area of the city, and so on.

That's the thing about Japan, is that in contemporary Japan you see a lot more of these modern gangs that aren't Yakuza and they blend in because they don't have decades or centuries of influence behind them. And one of their best sources of power is making sure to trap people in debt to them and getting payments from them and letting the criminal system chew them up if they try to run or don't pay or contact the police. You're basically blackmailed on a personal level while also knowing that just by getting implicated in crimes by the group, your whole family will suffer.

his palace theme bops tho

Yeah Kaneshiro was incredibly underwhelming as a antagonist, but I guess they had to have one to keep things somewhat more believeable. Kaneshiro seems like he sucks as a villain but he was willing to human traffick people and it happens upon failure so it is what it is. To be fair Madarame was rather weak too and the only things that pushed him into unforgiveable territory was that he exploited kids and purposely let Yusuke's mom die from that seizure she was having.

Youre close to the GOAT dungeon.

I don't even think Madarame is that good, but Kaneshiro is definitely the weakest.

But it's okay because his palace tune blows my brain.

was Kamoshida actually rape (penetration) hus students, or "just" abuse and molesting?

He says in his confession he was trying to get Ann to sleep with him.

I hope having sex with your students under threat of blackmail would count as rape.

BurmesePenguin posted...

He says in his confession he was trying to get Ann to sleep with him.

I hope having sex with your students under threat of blackmail would count as rape.

it would count as rape, yes.
I guess it wasn't taken serious by the Japanese players because the rape didn't happen yet, while other bosses already did their crime.
sexual abuse is still a big crime, tho.

Japan hate drugs but are completely fine with the excessive smoking? It makes no sense for that to be normalized and the other to be condemned

Ricemills posted...

was Kamoshida actually rape (penetration) hus students, or "just" abuse and molesting?

It's implied he raped Shiho, since she's the one he turned to after Ann refused to go to his house. Not to mention he seems to be based off of Masato Uchishiba, who like Kamoshida was a gold medalist (except his was for judo instead of volleyball) turned coach who got exposed for raping one of his students. So there's at least that 1 instance.

Noumas posted...

Japan hate drugs but are completely fine with the excessive smoking? It makes no sense for that to be normalized and the other to be condemned

The USA does the same shit in most states lol. Every country has stupid laws

Kamoshida is the only villain that you get invested in taking down.
All the others are just bad guys that you need to beat.

Kyle1022 posted...

The USA does the same shit in most states lol. Every country has stupid laws

Probably because one just negatively affects a few parts of the body while the others negatively affects that and the mind.

FatAnimeBooty posted...

Kamoshida is the only villain that you get invested in taking down.
All the others are just bad guys that you need to beat.

Not entirely true, but yeah, Kamoshida is the most hateable villain for the majority of the game.

Even the big main villain while pretty bad, doesn't compare to kamoshida since he hits a little too close to reality

isnt that the fat dude with the robotic piggy bank? i actually enjoyed that fight!

ZevLoveDOOM posted...

isnt that the fat dude with the robotic piggy bank? i actually enjoyed that fight!

Yeah, the fight was great, it's the low presence of the villain in the story the problem

He is more a background plot device compared to nearly every other villain in the game. He literally only has one on screen scene.