Current Events > Senator: violence will break out unless we return power to the states

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://thinkprogress.org/mike-lee-civil-war-highways-86be306e06b9/

On Thursday, Sen. Mike Lee (R-UT) delivered a speech to the conservative Federalist Society that would have been more at home on Alex Jones radio show than at a gathering of many of the most powerful lawyers and judges in the country.

In it, Lee warned of a brewing civil war, and claimed that the only way to avert violence would be to eradicate a long list of federal programs including the interstate highway system, funding for K through 12 public education, federal higher education accreditation, early childhood education, the Department of Commerce, housing policy, workforce regulation, and what Lee labeled the huge glut of federally owned land.

Seriously, this is not hyperbole. A sitting United States senator actually said these things. You can watch the entire speech here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ4Krl--xps" data-time="

Lee, who also believes that federal child labor laws, Social Security, and Medicare are unconstitutional, claimed in his speech that America faces a stark choice federalism or violence.

According to Lee, when the federal government has the power to do pretty much anything, that thrusts the country into a fundamentally un-American contest to determine which half of our nation will have the power, at least temporarily, to unilaterally impose its will and its values on the other half.

Lee, of course, blamed this state of affairs on the left.

Many on the left dont seem too concerned, about a system of government where a political party which wins an election gains the temporary power to govern. Lee claims that the left believes that demographic and historic trends coupled with what many see as the inherent rightness of their leftist cause make their ultimate victory over red America inevitable.

And this whole democratic state of affairs, he says, will somehow lead to civil unrest.
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Lees long list of activities the federal government must cease appears to be entirely arbitrary (though, in true Republican form, he does claim that the feds should be allowed to enforce immigration laws).

In the past, Lee has argued that pretty much every federal law that liberals support violates the Constitution. He argued that the federal ban on child labor is unconstitutional because the Constitution was designed to be a little bit harsh, for example.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2018/11/16/sen-mike-lee-says-toxic/

The countrys strident good vs. evil style of national politics has become so toxic that it is sure to lead to violence on a large scale unless it embraces federalism, warns Sen. Mike Lee, R-Utah.

The continuous political war that holds out winner-take-all as the ultimate prize in a deeply divided nation has created a sort of constitutional dirty bomb that threatens the foundations of our republic, the conservative politician said to a warmly receptive Federalist Society convention audience on Thursday.

A constitutional scholar who was swept into office by the tea party in 2010, Lee said political rhetoric and rancor has reached such a fever pitch that its driving our politics toward violence. Ultimately, this will come down to a binary choice: federalism or violence.

Lees theory is that the current national politics that has the majority party in Washington Republican or Democrat forcing its will on the 49 percent of the country that disagrees is unsustainable. Allowing states to reclaim power as was intended by the Founding Fathers, he argued, will relieve the pressure and animosity that has developed and restore a more human and responsive politics.

Let Vermont be Vermont and Utah be Utah, Lee said, adding that theres a simple remedy for a resident who disagrees with his or her states policy choices: you can move.

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Why are people so obsessed with the states?

The states are a fiction. People think we are like the EU, where every state is actually a country. Or maybe like the UK, where every country there was actually a country at some point.

In the case of the US, the original 13 colonies could have been considered sort of like independent entities I guess. But other than that, and with a few exceptions (eg Texas) most other states were actually made up, fictional, as the US expanded westward the new, previously unconquered lands were added to the union and divided into states By a central power.

Utah was never the country of Utah , and Montana was never the country of Montana, they never ceded power like say, Scotland did to the UK.

Death penalty for that guy
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"Red America," he says...
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Weird how one political party can go from controlling every single branch of government to contemplating civil war all because of one election.
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The same Mike Lee who has been behind Government power up until Democrats got a blue wave?
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SchoolForAnts posted...

Why are people so obsessed with the states?

because they're a nice euphemism for "the corporate sponsors who own me"

the real aim is privatization of everything. handing control to a conservative state government that you know will in turn hand control to a corporation, is just handing it to the corporation with plausible deniability
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Darkman124 posted...

SchoolForAnts posted...

Why are people so obsessed with the states?

because they're a nice euphemism for "the corporate sponsors who own me"

the real aim is privatization of everything. handing control to a conservative state government that you know will in turn hand control to a corporation, is just handing it to the corporation with plausible deniability

That makes so much sense. A big company like AT&T would have a shitty red state like Montana in its pocket easily, maybe all it would take is a couple Pokmon cards and a 2DS :/

This shit needs to stop... federal oversight is necessary for some things.

The countrys strident good vs. evil style of national politics has become so toxic that it is sure to lead to violence on a large scale unless it embraces federalism, warns Sen. Mike Lee, R-Utah.

Well he is not wrong about the toxicity causing violence and problems.

Wrong about like....everything else though.
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Darkman124 posted...

SchoolForAnts posted...

Why are people so obsessed with the states?

because they're a nice euphemism for "the corporate sponsors who own me"

the real aim is privatization of everything. handing control to a conservative state government that you know will in turn hand control to a corporation, is just handing it to the corporation with plausible deniability

Are you saying you believe this about anyone who wants less federal and more state power? Or just the politicians?

Because thats quite an assumption

Darkman124 posted...

the real aim is privatization of everything. handing control to a conservative state government that you know will in turn hand control to a corporation, is just handing it to the corporation with plausible deniability

Wisconsin is the most recent example that stands out to me.
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Antifar posted...

Lee, who also believes that federal child labor laws, Social Security, and Medicare are unconstitutional,

...And he lost me.
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Darkman124 posted...

SchoolForAnts posted...

Why are people so obsessed with the states?

because they're a nice euphemism for "the corporate sponsors who own me"

the real aim is privatization of everything. handing control to a conservative state government that you know will in turn hand control to a corporation, is just handing it to the corporation with plausible deniability

I don't understand why people say local government is more corrupt, especially given the track record of the military industrial complex. Hundreds of billions of dollars go towards building crap weapons that are only designed to be expensive. I think the difference is that you can more easily talk about local corruption without sounding like a conspiracy theorist, while federal level corruption gets partially declassified or leaked decades after the fact when everybody involved is dead or retired.
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Man, Mike Lee sounds like a fucking idiot.
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Romes187 posted...

Are you saying you believe this about anyone who wants less federal and more state power? Or just the politicians?

Because thats quite an assumption

just the politicians. i think the typical person who says that is not well informed and is saying it because the right wing media outlets they listen to say it, and the 'football team' mentality of american politics leads to them parroting what they're told

the motivations of the media telling them this are pretty obvious, though, as many are funded by the same people who trade campaign contributions for political favors.

tennisdude818 posted...

I don't understand why people say local government is more corrupt, especially given the track record of the military industrial complex. Hundreds of billions of dollars go towards building crap weapons that are only designed to be expensive. I think the difference is that you can more easily talk about local corruption without sounding like a conspiracy theorist, while federal level corruption gets partially declassified or leaked decades after the fact when everybody involved is dead or retired.

you might notice that mike lee specifically did not suggest eradicating that. just everything else.

i think we should try to stay on topic. the highway system, K-12, etc are not major sources of federal corruption.

if anything, the MIC is the model that the right would prefer to see all federal spending follow.

and--again, for clarity--i'm speaking of politicians and donors, not regular people. i don't think conservative americans are evil. i think they are misinformed and manipulated.
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I like how he's right, but the author of the article is just oozing contempt
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I like how he is completely wrong.
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davyheinz posted...

I like how he is completely wrong.

Sick burn
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Magyar15 posted...

I like how he's right, but the author of the article is just oozing contempt

Way too early for hot takes.
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tennisdude818 posted...

Darkman124 posted...

SchoolForAnts posted...

Why are people so obsessed with the states?

because they're a nice euphemism for "the corporate sponsors who own me"

the real aim is privatization of everything. handing control to a conservative state government that you know will in turn hand control to a corporation, is just handing it to the corporation with plausible deniability

I don't understand why people say local government is more corrupt, especially given the track record of the military industrial complex. Hundreds of billions of dollars go towards building crap weapons that are only designed to be expensive. I think the difference is that you can more easily talk about local corruption without sounding like a conspiracy theorist, while federal level corruption gets partially declassified or leaked decades after the fact when everybody involved is dead or retired.

Because the amount needed to bribe the mayor of poopsville or the state of Montana is peanuts compared to the amount needed to bribe the federal government

SchoolForAnts posted...

tennisdude818 posted...

Darkman124 posted...

SchoolForAnts posted...

Why are people so obsessed with the states?

because they're a nice euphemism for "the corporate sponsors who own me"

the real aim is privatization of everything. handing control to a conservative state government that you know will in turn hand control to a corporation, is just handing it to the corporation with plausible deniability

I don't understand why people say local government is more corrupt, especially given the track record of the military industrial complex. Hundreds of billions of dollars go towards building crap weapons that are only designed to be expensive. I think the difference is that you can more easily talk about local corruption without sounding like a conspiracy theorist, while federal level corruption gets partially declassified or leaked decades after the fact when everybody involved is dead or retired.

Because the amount needed to bribe the mayor of poopsville or the state of Montana is peanuts compared to the amount needed to bribe the federal government

And the amount at stake at the federal level is much higher as well.
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Darkman124 posted...

Romes187 posted...

Are you saying you believe this about anyone who wants less federal and more state power? Or just the politicians?

Because thats quite an assumption

just the politicians. i think the typical person who says that is not well informed and is saying it because the right wing media outlets they listen to say it, and the 'football team' mentality of american politics leads to them parroting what they're told

the motivations of the media telling them this are pretty obvious, though, as many are funded by the same people who trade campaign contributions for political favors.

tennisdude818 posted...

I don't understand why people say local government is more corrupt, especially given the track record of the military industrial complex. Hundreds of billions of dollars go towards building crap weapons that are only designed to be expensive. I think the difference is that you can more easily talk about local corruption without sounding like a conspiracy theorist, while federal level corruption gets partially declassified or leaked decades after the fact when everybody involved is dead or retired.

you might notice that mike lee specifically did not suggest eradicating that. just everything else.

i think we should try to stay on topic. the highway system, K-12, etc are not major sources of federal corruption.

if anything, the MIC is the model that the right would prefer to see all federal spending follow.

and--again, for clarity--i'm speaking of politicians and donors, not regular people. i don't think conservative americans are evil. i think they are misinformed and manipulated.

You think the K-12 system manages money in a way that favors kids over unaccountable bureaucrats? Its not like performance improved when the federal government got involved. We spend a ton of money on it considering the awful outcome, and we spend more every year.

Edit: imagine if Apple spent more on R&D every year only to see phones actually go backwards and get more expensive.
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Republicans are learning that they no longer have to hide the fact that they're regressive fascists. It's terrifying.

SchoolForAnts posted...

Why are people so obsessed with the states?

The states are a fiction. People think we are like the EU, where every state is actually a country. Or maybe like the UK, where every country there was actually a country at some point.

In the case of the US, the original 13 colonies could have been considered sort of like independent entities I guess. But other than that, and with a few exceptions (eg Texas) most other states were actually made up, fictional, as the US expanded westward the new, previously unconquered lands were added to the union and divided into states By a central power.

Utah was never the country of Utah , and Montana was never the country of Montana, they never ceded power like say, Scotland did to the UK.

This is such an ignorant post.

The designation of a state vs. a country is irrelevant to this discussion. I'm not entirely sure if you even know that states have their own laws.

@Rexdragon125 posted...

Republicans are learning that they no longer have to hide the fact that they're regressive fascists. It's terrifying.

They get empowered when the regressive fascists in the Democratic party egg them on. Like how leading Democrat Eric Salwell of California said that if gun owners don't want to turn in their "semiautomatic assault weapon" guns, "the government has nukes" and "it'd be a short war"

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/california-dem-says-government-would-use-nuclear-weapons-against-gun-owners-resisting-firearms-control

And before you collapse because it's Fox News, they actually have a screencap of the tweet there.

It's literally a leading Democrat from California threatening to use nuclear weapons on American citizens who don't want to give up their rights.
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tennisdude818 posted...

Darkman124 posted...

Romes187 posted...

Are you saying you believe this about anyone who wants less federal and more state power? Or just the politicians?

Because thats quite an assumption

just the politicians. i think the typical person who says that is not well informed and is saying it because the right wing media outlets they listen to say it, and the 'football team' mentality of american politics leads to them parroting what they're told

the motivations of the media telling them this are pretty obvious, though, as many are funded by the same people who trade campaign contributions for political favors.

tennisdude818 posted...

I don't understand why people say local government is more corrupt, especially given the track record of the military industrial complex. Hundreds of billions of dollars go towards building crap weapons that are only designed to be expensive. I think the difference is that you can more easily talk about local corruption without sounding like a conspiracy theorist, while federal level corruption gets partially declassified or leaked decades after the fact when everybody involved is dead or retired.

you might notice that mike lee specifically did not suggest eradicating that. just everything else.

i think we should try to stay on topic. the highway system, K-12, etc are not major sources of federal corruption.

if anything, the MIC is the model that the right would prefer to see all federal spending follow.

and--again, for clarity--i'm speaking of politicians and donors, not regular people. i don't think conservative americans are evil. i think they are misinformed and manipulated.

You think the K-12 system manages money in a way that favors kids over unaccountable bureaucrats? Its not like performance improved when the federal government got involved. We spend a ton of money on it considering the awful outcome, and we spend more every year.

Edit: imagine if Apple spent more on R&D every year only to see phones actually go backwards and get more expensive.

Eeeehhhhhh.

The iPhone XR lost the home button and headphone jack (you cant charge and listen to music at the same time now!) and it has had issues. It is a downgrade from the iPhone 8 lol

Yes, education and highways are what is killing the US economy.

Brilliant.
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@RoboLaserGandhi posted...

SchoolForAnts posted...

Why are people so obsessed with the states?

The states are a fiction. People think we are like the EU, where every state is actually a country. Or maybe like the UK, where every country there was actually a country at some point.

In the case of the US, the original 13 colonies could have been considered sort of like independent entities I guess. But other than that, and with a few exceptions (eg Texas) most other states were actually made up, fictional, as the US expanded westward the new, previously unconquered lands were added to the union and divided into states By a central power.

Utah was never the country of Utah , and Montana was never the country of Montana, they never ceded power like say, Scotland did to the UK.

This is such an ignorant post.

The designation of a state vs. a country is irrelevant to this discussion. I'm not entirely sure if you even know that states have their own laws.

1) insult the poster
2) do not explain why your insult is applicable
3) bring some point of view that has nothing to do with the point

Wow where did you learn to debate, at trump university?

@Goats posted...

I'm not advocating violence, just preparedness. This kind of rhetoric isn't going to take the nation in a good place and Democrats need to be prepared. They see us as terribly weak and incompetent, and the increased calls for violence are just going to end in tragedy if we aren't prepared for it tyranitar.

Eeehhhhh, Democrats ARE weaker and more incompetent (note - i am much closer to a Democrat to a republican in ideology, I am not red hat).

Think about it, they frame the national conversation and we allow them to do it. A few examples:

1) virtue signaling

- so you hate racism? Virtue signaling!
- you dont like our corruption? Virtue signaling!
- you dislike sexism? Virtue signaler!

Democrats should have been like since when is virtue signaling, if by having values means virtue signaling, bad?

But nooooooo, instead democrats react like s-sorry! I am not virtue signaling :(

2) chain migration

So the immigration law allows for what is calling family reunification: the ability to sponsor your close relatives. So what does trump do? He calls it chain migration and makes it sound like you want to bring your neighbor and his dog and they will bring their neighbor and their camel as well.

Democrats should have been like lmao, its cslled family reunification and its only for close relatives, learn to read. But instead they are like oh! B-but chain migration isnt bad D:

See my point? They allow the far right to control and frame the conversation as they see fit.

They also roll over and do whatever the right tells them to. Fucking chuck shummer even offered to fund the wall last year

The Violent Right sure wants to kill its political opponents in war. It's the only side whose politicians and pundits constantly talk about civil war.
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tennisdude818 posted...

You think the K-12 system manages money in a way that favors kids over unaccountable bureaucrats?

yes

principally when it is used to bring funding in low income areas up to par with that of high income areas

i suggest you read this paper on the subject rather than relying on your assumptions

https://www.nber.org/papers/w22011.pdf
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Mobs though.
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Proudclad has been afraid of conservatives this whole time, that's the real reason being his shitty opinions.
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If only there were some Republicans in power to stop these out of control Democrats.

When's the last time Republicans held any political power in this country?
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guy is a straight up lunatic
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