Current Events > Ontario set to roll out universal basic income

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http://www.bnn.ca/ontario-to-launch-basic-income-project-in-three-cities-1.732814

Great news lazy freeloaders, your messiah is here!

Ontario is launching a basic income pilot project this spring, aimed at providing financial stability for low-income residents in a time of precarious work and a changing economy.

Premier Kathleen Wynne announced the details of the province's three-year basic income project during a speech in Hamilton Monday.

"The project will explore the effectiveness of providing a basic income to people who are currently living on low incomes, whether they are working or not," Wynne said. "People participating in our pilot communities will receive a minimum amount of income each year -- a basic income, no matter what."

The pilot will launch in the Hamilton area -- including in Brantford, Ont., and Brant County -- and the Thunder Bay, Ont.,-area late this spring, and in Lindsay, Ont., this fall, with a minimum payment of nearly $17,000 for an eligible single person.

I'm sure these guys will use that extra money to really haul ass and upgrade their education and skills to become valuable members of society!
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Did a universal basic income kill your dog or something? Because you make like a dozen topics a week about it for no reason...
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Gamer99z posted...

Did a universal basic income kill your dog or something? Because you make like a dozen topics a week about it for no reason...

do you follow tc or what lmao

eggcorn posted...

Gamer99z posted...

Did a universal basic income kill your dog or something? Because you make like a dozen topics a week about it for no reason...

do you follow tc or what lmao

I don't know anything about TC other than the fact that I've noticed every single topic lately on this subject has been made by him. Which isn't a hard trend to pick up on after seeing almost a dozen.
Is this his gimmick or something?
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eggcorn posted...

Gamer99z posted...

Did a universal basic income kill your dog or something? Because you make like a dozen topics a week about it for no reason...

do you follow tc or what lmao

When you're unemployed and spend all day on GameFAQs you tend to notice or track these things to help kill the time. Some of these guys know my posting history better than I do.
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REMercsChamp posted...

I'm sure these guys will use that extra money to really haul ass and upgrade their education and skills to become valuable members of society!

Well I mean results would indicate from previous trials that yes, this is exactly what happens.
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That's not basic income

That's just welfare
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John_Galt posted...

That's not basic income

That's just welfare

That's what basic income is. Giving free money to unemployed drug addicts and ex-goat farmers so they can become astronauts and CEOs
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Doom_Art posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

I'm sure these guys will use that extra money to really haul ass and upgrade their education and skills to become valuable members of society!

Well I mean results would indicate from previous trials that yes, this is exactly what happens.

Yes, "trials". Done under tightly controlled and supervised conditions.
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John_Galt posted...

That's not basic income

That's just welfare

If it's means-tested, it's definitely just welfare.

I mean, do you have a legitimate criticism of the program apart from this weird emotionally charged thing you have going on right now?
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John_Galt posted...

That's not basic income

That's just welfare

So? Not everyone who receives welfare abuses it. My mom lost her job when i was a kid and used welfare and food stamps for like a year and then got back on her feet and is ok now.

Sure, there are people that abuse the system but its a small number of people and theres a lot of people who need help.

having a supplemental income would help a lot for low income people.
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Also yes, not a fan of making this exclusive to lower classes at all. UBI is for everyone, that's the point
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Doom_Art posted...

I mean, do you have a legitimate criticism of the program apart from this weird emotionally charged thing you have going on right now?

Besides the fact that the working population will have their taxes raised so they can support people who have basically become obsolete and sit around playing video games all day?
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Minimum wage in Ontario is 11.60 according to the internet for a"standard job". That's 24K and change in a year.
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Makeveli_lives posted...

Minimum wage in Ontario is 11.60 according to the internet for a"standard job". That's 24K and change in a year.

That assuming everyone works full time
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This actually isn't a universal basic income, because the "universal" part is missing. For it to be universal, it would have to be available to everyone, and this is just for low-income folks. Should be interesting to see what happens.
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REMercsChamp posted...

working population will have their taxes raised

where did the article say that

REMercsChamp posted...

people who have basically become obsolete and sit around playing video games all day?

Well again, you're not arguing based on any sort of real criticism. You're saying you think this will happen, you feel like it might, and it pulls out quite the reaction in you it seems, but you're not really basing it on anything other than your own emotions.
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I4NRulez posted...

having a supplemental income would help a lot for low income people.

The problem is, if there's a cutoff point, it becomes just another welfare trap.

If it's only available to someone making less than, lets say $17000 otherwise, that person's income will be up to $34000, then collapses to $17001 when that person no longer qualifies.

Doom_Art posted...

Well again, you're not arguing based on any sort of real criticism. You're saying you think this will happen, you feel like it might, and it pulls out quite the reaction in you it seems, but you're not really basing it on anything other than your own emotions.

The majority of the population on Earth is lazy and stupid. What the fuck do you think will happen.
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Honestly if someone gave me $17,000 for doing jack shit I'd want to repay them somehow. That's a community that makes you want to work for it.

REMercsChamp posted...

The majority of the population on Earth is lazy and stupid.

Source?

REMercsChamp posted...

What the fuck do you think will happen.

Well I mean based on the results of previous trials, especially based on the article you posted, more people working, healthier, spending more, and with no real drop in employment
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Doom_Art posted...

Source?

Being alive for 29 years?
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REMercsChamp posted...

Being alive for 29 years?

So again, we're back to just "feelings"
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Doom_Art posted...

Well I mean based on the results of previous trials, especially based on the article you posted, more people working, healthier, spending more, and with no real drop in employment

As I recall, these trials were back in the 70s. Why were they abandoned, if they worked out so great?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome_Program

REMercsChamp posted...

John_Galt posted...

That's not basic income

That's just welfare

That's what basic income is. Giving free money to unemployed drug addicts and ex-goat farmers so they can become astronauts and CEOs

Better than an internet forum poster.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

The problem is, if there's a cutoff point, it becomes just another welfare trap.

If it's only available to someone making less than, lets say $17000 otherwise, that person's income will be up to $34000, then collapses to $17001 when that person no longer qualifies.

that's why its just a supplemental income. I don't think the government should pay people to live without contributing.

but the government should try to help people who prove they are trying to contribute.

So essentially it should provide support up to say 10k a year. So a single mother of 2 who makes 20k a year would be a lot better off with the 800 extra bucks a month.

there should obviously be some type of scaling but i think it should have an enrollment period like health care.

I don't have all the answers but i think it can work.
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Getting a job requires nice clothes, a car, insurance, and a smartphone. You may even have to have certain clothes and shoes/boots for certain jobs. This welfare program will help struggling families find work.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Doom_Art posted...

Well I mean based on the results of previous trials, especially based on the article you posted, more people working, healthier, spending more, and with no real drop in employment

As I recall, these trials were back in the 70s. Why were they abandoned, if they worked out so great?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome_Program

looks like it was set up by the left and shut down by the right without a final verdict on if it worked or not
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Questionmarktarius posted...

Doom_Art posted...

Well I mean based on the results of previous trials, especially based on the article you posted, more people working, healthier, spending more, and with no real drop in employment

As I recall, these trials were back in the 70s. Why were they abandoned, if they worked out so great?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome_Program

If you actually read the first paragraph of the Wiki, it clearly says that it was started by the two left wing parties in Canada, and immediately shut down by the right wing once they got power. Basic reading comprehension goes a long way.
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Scody posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

Doom_Art posted...

Well I mean based on the results of previous trials, especially based on the article you posted, more people working, healthier, spending more, and with no real drop in employment

As I recall, these trials were back in the 70s. Why were they abandoned, if they worked out so great?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome_Program

If you actually read the first paragraph of the Wiki, it clearly says that it was started by the two left wing parties in Canada, and immediately shut down by the right wing once they got power. Basic reading comprehension goes a long way.

Right. And the people voted in a party who shut that shit down immediately. Much like what is going to happen to Wynne in Ontario next year.
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faizan_faizan posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

John_Galt posted...

That's not basic income

That's just welfare

That's what basic income is. Giving free money to unemployed drug addicts and ex-goat farmers so they can become astronauts and CEOs

Better than an internet forum poster.

I just don't get why he's this misanthropic. Imagine being as perpetually butthurt as this loser is about downtrodden people receiving assistance.

REMercsChamp posted...

And the people voted in a party who shut that shit down immediately.

Well I mean if you're suggesting that the reason most people voted for the right wing party was because of the UBI pilot program, then sure.
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Doom_Art posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

And the people voted in a party who shut that shit down immediately.

Well I mean if you're suggesting that the reason most people voted for the right wing party was because of the UBI pilot program, then sure.

I'm sure it's one of the reasons. Wynne has a 10% approval rating right now. The UBI is part of the problem.
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REMercsChamp posted...

I'm sure it's one of the reasons.

Source?
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This is just welfare not ubi.
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Scody posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

Doom_Art posted...

Well I mean based on the results of previous trials, especially based on the article you posted, more people working, healthier, spending more, and with no real drop in employment

As I recall, these trials were back in the 70s. Why were they abandoned, if they worked out so great?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome_Program

If you actually read the first paragraph of the Wiki, it clearly says that it was started by the two left wing parties in Canada, and immediately shut down by the right wing once they got power. Basic reading comprehension goes a long way.

Five years is not "immediately".

Sojy posted...

faizan_faizan posted...

REMercsChamp posted...

John_Galt posted...

That's not basic income

That's just welfare

That's what basic income is. Giving free money to unemployed drug addicts and ex-goat farmers so they can become astronauts and CEOs

Better than an internet forum poster.

I just don't get why he's this misanthropic. Imagine being as perpetually butthurt as this loser is about downtrodden people receiving assistance.

Sure man, call me the loser, but I'm not the one doing nothing with my life, becoming obsolete and begging for free handouts.
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"The project will explore the effectiveness of providing a basic income to people who are currently living on low incomes, whether they are working or not,"

Okay not a fan of that last part. Hope they got a solution for lighting a fire under couch potatoes.
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ClockworkHare posted...

"The project will explore the effectiveness of providing a basic income to people who are currently living on low incomes, whether they are working or not,"

Okay not a fan of that last part. Hope they got a solution for lighting a fire under couch potatoes.

The trick to doing so is to make the free money not all that great, and gradually take it back as the recipient moves up.

The one in the 70s, and most Negative Income Tax plans, take back 50 cents of every dollar earned, in exchange for an income floor.

Questionmarktarius posted...

ClockworkHare posted...

"The project will explore the effectiveness of providing a basic income to people who are currently living on low incomes, whether they are working or not,"

Okay not a fan of that last part. Hope they got a solution for lighting a fire under couch potatoes.

The trick to doing so is to make the free money not all that great, and gradually take it back as the recipient moves up.

The one in the 70s, and most Negative Income Tax plans, take back 50 cents of every dollar earned, in exchange for an income floor.

So you can exchange doing nothing for a 50% income tax rate. And because 99% of the people on Earth are honest, hard working and intelligent, and interested in personal/career development, of course they will take the route of working hard and getting educated or acquiring new skills rather than taking the free money and shit posting on CE all day.
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