Current Events > To circumcise or not?

(+) Yeah! (+)

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oh dont me wrong, i agree with keeping the mutilation to a minimum (favorably none). very glad my wife and I were able to give our son the choice to make his own decision on the matter

but the topic is still technically about dicks tho lol

Sonixs posted...

Thankfully it doesn't grow back. But also skin tags don't grow back.

Dude you sound so fucking dumb right now. Skin tags actually do grow back and they can just spontaneously appear.

Enclave posted...

And you are once again ignoring that there's no great phimosis epidemic in Europe.

You keep saying I'm wrong but you ignore the fact that a rather massive number of men in the world are not circumcised and yet all these medical problems you complain about are not actually some major problem and then accuse me of being wrong. I'm not wrong, I'm being a realist. These "problems" solved by circumcision are not actually problems and we have billions of people in the world as proof of that.

Why would there be a phimosis epidemic? What the fuck are you talking about? Its a fairly rare condition. Not circumcising doesnt create an epidemic.

The problem still exists, and the medical consensus is literally that circumcision does have minor benefits. No amount of you trying to handwave that away or outright lie about it is going to change that. No amount of you pretending Ive said theyre major problems changes what Ive actually said.

Nobody (except that one guy I guess?) is saying you need to get circumcision done. Its a minor procedure with minor benefits. Some may consider it worth it for their children. Some may not. The fact remains that it removes the chance of phimosis, and lowers the occurrence of STDs and penile cancer. These are facts. Its wild you have all spent this long arguing with facts.

Zonbei posted...

Why would there be a phimosis epidemic? What the fuck are you talking about? Its a fairly rare condition. Not circumcising doesnt create an epidemic.

The problem still exists, and the medical consensus is literally that circumcision does have minor benefits. No amount of you trying to handwave that away or outright lie about it is going to change that.

If you're going to be literally removing a part of a persons body without consent you better have a damn good reason for it. You seem to just try to scattershot for literally any possible excuse you can reach for that's clearly not actually a real problem. It's like you're just looking for any possible excuse to justify an unjustifiable position.

The benefits are so microscopic that its not worth chopping off skin for

I have lived for 42 years without circumcision. I suffered no penalties for this. I have been perfectly fine

Enclave posted...

If you're going to be literally removing a part of a persons body without consent you better have a damn good reason for it. You seem to just try to scattershot for literally any possible excuse you can reach for that's clearly not actually a real problem. It's like you're just looking for any possible excuse to justify an unjustifiable position.

The projection here is insane. You literally invented that I claimed circumcision solved major problems, then tried to use the lack of the existence of major problems as a reason I was wrong.

Theres no scattershot; Ive been pretty clear this entire fucking time that it has the minor benefits of lowering STI and penile cancer occurence. I was reminded of phimosis and other rare issues caused by having a foreskin, because someone else brought it up. Thats it. Thats the entirety of my points. So scattershot, clearly.

Zikten posted...

The benefits are so microscopic that its not worth chopping off skin for

I have lived for 42 years without circumcision. I suffered no penalties for this. I have been perfectly fine

You have been perfectly fine. Objectively, other people have gotten penile cancer who wouldnt have without a foreskin. Thats why anecdotal evidence isnt that useful. Including my own.

the benefits are microscopic in your opinion. I personally think it was worth the benefits, and have experienced literally zero downsides. Anecdotal, again, but in this case were comparing our experiences.

Zonbei posted...

The projection here is insane. You literally invented that I claimed circumcision solved major problems, then tried to use the lack of the existence of major problems as a reason I was wrong.

Theres no scattershot; Ive been pretty clear this entire fucking time that it has the minor benefits of lowering STI and penile cancer occurence. I was reminded of phimosis and other rare issues caused by having a foreskin, because someone else brought it up. Thats it. Thats the entirety of my points. So scattershot, clearly.

Oh my god, so if you admit all the supposed "problems" are not actually problems WHY do you think it's okay to perform a non-consensual cosmetic surgery on a child? It's absolute lunacy that people think this is okay and the people who defend it come up with the most pointless stupid fucking reasons to do it as justification.

Zikten posted...

The benefits are so microscopic that its not worth chopping off skin for

I have lived for 42 years without circumcision. I suffered no penalties for this. I have been perfectly fine

Same. 34 and never had one problem.

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My boyfriend told me he wishes he still had his and not to mention a bunch of guys I've had sex with saying the same damn thing. Seriously people don't mutilate your sons because it's cleaner or it looks like yours. Let him make the choice on his own.

It's weird as hell to do so these days, a relic of the past that got overlooked too long because it didn't cause serious permanent effects

Enclave posted...

Oh my god, so if you admit all the supposed "problems" are not actually problems WHY do you think it's okay to perform a non-consensual cosmetic surgery on a child? It's absolute lunacy that people think this is okay and the people who defend it come up with the most pointless stupid fucking reasons to do it as justification.

Because there are minor benefits, and I dont care as much as you do about clutching my pearls over performing medicine when it comes to babies, a thing we do in many many other circumstances. Babies dont have bodily autonomy and never have.

I dont see why you are so confused by this. Minor benefits. Medical procedure. People can choose to have it done or not for their children. Just like any medical procedure. you believe its some horrible thing. I believe its a Tuesday. Thats the difference here. You have spent a million words arguing anything but that for sone reason, desperate to find something you can prove wrong.

Zonbei posted...

Because there are minor benefits, and I dont care as much as you do about clutching my pearls over performing medicine when it comes to babies, a thing we do in many many other circumstances. Babies dont have bodily autonomy and never have.

I dont see why you are so confused by this. Minor benefits. Medical procedure. People can choose to have it done or not for their children. Just like any medical procedure. you believe its some horrible thing. I believe its a Tuesday. Thats the difference here. You have spent a million words arguing anything but that for sone reason, desperate to find something you can prove wrong.

So there, you don't care about taking consent away from people. That says everything and does not speak well for you or others that take your position.

Enclave posted...

So there, you don't care about taking consent away from people. That says everything and does not speak well for you or others that take your position.

Nope, that sure isnt what I said.

You cant take away consent from babies. They dont have any to begin with. We already, as a society, have decided it is okay to make decisions for babies. Life changing decisions. That is literally what parenting is. You already agree with it, you are on board with taking consent away from babies. Explicitly. You just think its bad in this case because you have an emotional reaction to circumcision and have convinced yourself there are no health benefits whatsoever so it is being done for no reason.

so what I am okay with is the status quo, the reality of medicine where children dont have choices about their care and never have. Im not advocating for taking consent away. Im accepting that we shouldnt give medical
decisions to literal babies and children, and instead letting their parents make decisions for them like we do in every single other fucking instance.

Nice try at misrepresenting what I said though. It doesnt speak well for you that all you seem to be able to do is be repeatedly disingenuous and use shitty tactics instead of genuinely engaging.

Zonbei posted...

You cant take away consent from babies.

Yeah, we're done here.

Enclave posted...

Yeah, we're done here.

Of course we are, because you literally cant argue against that. You have absolutely no ground to stand on other than performative outrage at the mere concept, despite the fact it is a key part of our entire society.

Name one instance in society where babies have autonomy or must give consent. They dont choose their names, their homes, their families. Babies have medical procedures done without consent as a matter of course, from the literal moment of birth onwards. Parents have legal responsibility to make choices for their children. Babies dont choose their food, they dont choose their clothes, they dont choose whether they bathe, they dont choose to sit around in their own shit, they dont choose to get surgeries to fix many things. They dont choose to get vaccines, they dont choose anything. Every. And were all fine with that, including you, ok every instance except this one, where you think yelling WOW YOU THINK BABIES DONT HAVE CONSENT is going to help you win.

Thanks for being so transparent about it, I guess.

Enclave posted...

Just teach your kid how to wash their dick, why is this considered so outrageous? Teaching your kid basic god damn hygiene isn't difficult.

Do you even know wtf is phimosis? If you did then you wouldn't have made a dumb comment like that. And no, having good penis cleaning hygiene doesn't prevent phimosis

Weird how the majority of the world figured out how to handle phimosis and penis cancer without mutilating a baby's penis without their consent.

I guess America is just too stupid and needs circumcision to save them from themselves.

hockeybabe89 posted...

Weird how the majority of the world figured out how to handle phimosis and penis cancer without mutilating a baby's penis without their consent.

I guess America is just too stupid and needs circumcision to save them from themselves.

I mean. They handle it by just letting it happen at the usual rate. Which is fine, but choosing to lower the chances is also fine.

Why do people feel the need to chime in when they just have absolutely nothing to add and havent even thought through what theyre saying?

BigB0ss13 posted...

Do you even know wtf is phimosis? If you did then you wouldn't have made a dumb comment like that. And no, having good penis cleaning hygiene doesn't prevent phimosis

Phimosis is a rare occurrence. 1% of people have phimosis by the time they are 16 and if it's not severe it can be corrected with a steroid cream. If its severe then a partial or full circumcision is needed. Not hard to find information on this. Btw it's normal for babies and small kids to have phimosis. They usually grow out of it. How do I know? I had it when I was younger and the steroid cream helped stretch it out so it would retract.

Nirvanas_Nox posted...

Phimosis is a rare occurrence. 1% of people have phimosis by the time they are 16 and if it's not severe it can be corrected with a steroid cream. If its severe then a partial or full circumcision is needed. Not hard to find information on this. Btw it's normal for babies and small kids to have phimosis. They usually grow out of it. How do I know? I had it when I was younger and the steroid cream helped stretch it out so it would retract.

Did you know 1 percent of men is 40 million people?

Sure, steroid cream can help fix it. It still sucks. Given the other minor benefits, personally Im glad Im circumcised.

Downsides of not being circumcised : possibility of phimosis and other foreskin issues, higher risk of STDs, infection, and cancer

downsides of being circumcised: file not found

Zonbei posted...

Did you know 1 percent of men is 40 million people?

Sure, steroid cream can help fix it. It still sucks. Given the other minor benefits, personally Im glad Im circumcised.

Downsides of not being circumcised : possibility of phimosis and other foreskin issues, higher risk of STDs, infection, and cancer

downsides of being circumcised: file not found

I agree. Children should have their appendix, gallbladder, tonsils, etc removed as soon as possible. I mean, children don't have bodily autonomy and the benefits outweigh the negatives, right?

Zonbei posted...

I mean. They handle it by just letting it happen at the usual rate. Which is fine, but choosing to lower the chances is also fine.

Why do people feel the need to chime in when they just have absolutely nothing to add and havent even thought through what theyre saying?

I have thought about what I am saying. Circumcision is objectively mutilation and nonconsensual. And our society being conditioned by religious horseshit is the only reason we make an exception for this procedure and not others. A lot of things could give us minor health benefits, but no one advocates cutting open children for every preventative measure you can think of.

If we don't have absolute autonomy over our bodies from our first breath, then what do we have? Are we even human? What is even the point of life?

hockeybabe89 posted...

I agree. Children should have their appendix, gallbladder, tonsils, etc removed as soon as possible. I mean, children don't have bodily autonomy and the benefits outweigh the negatives, right?

Your gallbladder and tonsils actually
serve a purpose, although if the consensus was tonsils arent worth the risk, then sure. Take them and the appendix out. Did you think this was a gotcha? I have literally said in this topic that I would be pro appendix removal if it were safe. (Although it will never be as safe as circumcision, so probably not actually doable.)

hockeybabe89 posted...

I have thought about what I am saying. Circumcision is objectively mutilation and nonconsensual. And our society being conditioned by religious horseshit is the only reason we make an exception for this procedure and not others. A lot of things could give us minor health benefits, but no one advocates cutting open children for every preventative measure you can think of.

Religion has absolutely nothing to do with my stance on this, and theres no religious conditioning affecting it. Literally just the facts of the matter.

I dont think youre using the word objectively correctly.

its almost like cutting a child open is way more dangerous than circumcision. Who knew. If it wasnt, Id be all for removing the appendix, as stated above.

Zonbei posted...

Your gallbladder and tonsils actually
serve a purpose, although if the consensus was tonsils arent worth the risk, then sure. Take them and the appendix out. Did you think this was a gotcha? I have literally said in this topic that I would be pro-appendix removal.

Well then you should shut the fuck up and be kept far away from parenting, voting, a medical license, etc.

Zonbei posted...

Religion has absolutely nothing to do with my stance on this, and theres no religious conditioning affecting it. Literally just the facts of the matter.

I dont think youre using the word objectively correctly.

its almost like cutting a child open is way more dangerous than circumcision. Who knew. If it wasnt, Id be all for removing the appendix, as stated above.

It does. You might not think so, but you're retroactively trying to justify circumcision. It is only acceptable in the US because of religion. It never would have become normalized otherwise and that is a fact. Don't try to use logic to justify what was established illogically.

hockeybabe89 posted...

Weird how the majority of the world figured out how to handle phimosis and penis cancer without mutilating a baby's penis without their consent.

I guess America is just too stupid and needs circumcision to save them from themselves.

Have you seen America's healthcare system? That shit doesn't surprise me

And by the way this topic has gone, same goes for the education system

hockeybabe89 posted...

It does. You might not think so, but you're retroactively trying to justify circumcision. It is only acceptable in the US because of religion. It never would have become normalized otherwise and that is a fact. Don't try to use logic to justify what was established illogically.

As Ive already explained, the only reason it was even religious to begin with was health reasons, like many other religious laws.

also, it was doctors that began saying it was useful in the US, not churches.

I dont need to retroactively justify anything. I have laid out my stance very clearly, and its rational, whether you agree with it or not. Theres no illogic here.

hockeybabe89 posted...

Well then you should shut the fuck up and be kept far away from parenting, voting, a medical license, etc.

Yes, because in a universe where appendectomies are as safe as circumcision, Id be fine with saving lives. so clearly I should be kept away from voting or parenting. Makes sense.

Gwynevere posted...

And by the way this topic has gone, same goes for the education system

well we can certainly agree there

Are people advocating for a baby to make their own decisions being serious? Have you ever been with a baby? They cant make decisions lol.

IdiotMachine posted...

Are people advocating for a baby to make their own decisions being serious? Have you ever been with a baby? They cant make decisions lol.

Did you make your final decision? I voted no even though I'm getting it later. Not really a big deal and minor issue overall.

It's really a personal decision between parents and the doctor

IdiotMachine posted...

Are people advocating for a baby to make their own decisions being serious? Have you ever been with a baby? They cant make decisions lol.

THAT'S THE POINT!

lilORANG posted...

It's really a personal decision between parents and the doctor

This.

I'm for it. I had it done to me and I'm glad.

Despite some people having issues in recent years, there are medical reasons and there have been studies on it which prove benefits - even if minor, they exist. Last I checked, the CDC recommends it. Also, it's more hygienic. That's not even debatable.

But it ultimately comes down to the parent and their doctor. Nobody else should be weighing in.

Scardude posted...

Did you make your final decision? I voted no even though I'm getting it later. Not really a big deal and minor issue overall.

When I started this, I was leaning towards it (like 90%). My wife deferred the decision to me since I have a penis and I should know more about this subject than her. While this topic really didnt sway me one way or another, I have since learned a bunch of friends who have had boys literally all decided against their boys being circumcised. That has had a significant impact on my perspective, and am slightly leaning against it (Id say like 40% yes).

IdiotMachine posted...

When I started this, I was leaning towards it (like 90%). My wife deferred the decision to me since I have a penis and I should know more about this subject than her. While this topic really didnt sway me one way or another, I have since learned a bunch of friends who have had boys literally all decided against their boys being circumcised. That has had a significant impact on my perspective, and am slightly leaning against it (Id say like 40% yes).

Peer pressure works. At least you are more informed on the subject matter. Your son can get it later if he needs it. For most of his life, he won't even know you were considering it.

My brother grew up with a deformity of a leg. My father made the mistake of telling my brother they considered making him an amputee at birth. To this day, even though my father passed and decided not to, my brother won't forgive him for consideration of it alone. That would have been an actual mutilation as people here are saying. Point is, once you decide and go with it. Forget it. In the long run, won't matter.

Some crazy takes in here that I can't get with.

My partner and I disagreed with the status quo and decided we could give our kid some autonomy on this particular issue. There was no legitimate reason not to leave it up to him when he's older.

BuzzKilljoy posted...

Some crazy takes in here that I can't get with.

My partner and I disagreed with the status quo and decided we could give our kid some autonomy on this particular issue. There was no legitimate reason not to leave it up to him when he's older.

Even the people who need it when older get pestered about it. That's what I found crazy.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

People are just really passionate about dick hoods >_>

Maybe the next 500 topic will finally convince the dudes on the other side of the screen to see the error of their penis ways lol

10 pages of this shit. Jesus Christ.

Enclave posted...

THAT'S THE POINT!

There is a tangible difference between getting it done as a baby and as an adult. In the absence of the ability for the baby to choose, it is up to the parents to decide. Choosing let them decide as an adult comes with the downside of the procedure being completely different, and worse, when adulthood is reached.

There is no way to offer the child the choice as an adult, only a different choice (to go through with a procedure with worse outcomes as an adult, that youll actually remember and experience.)

let me repeat that: it is impossible to leave the choice for later. You are deciding no for the baby, and letting the adult in the future make a different, more difficult decision, because circumcision as an adult and as a baby are NOT EQUIVALENT. Not getting them circumcised is as much taking away their choice as getting them circumcised.

This happens a lot with parenting. You cant leave every choice up to your child when they grow up. Some choices are your responsibility as a parent.

NeonOPPAl posted...

People are just really passionate about dick hoods >_>

Maybe the next 500 topic will finally convince the dudes on the other side of the screen to see the error of their penis ways lol

You can fuck off any time now with your constant sexual implications on this topic.

lol....what? Where was THAT implication?

Dont