Current Events > Are you a fan of comeback mechanics in video games?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Why or why not?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/3/0/1/AAAHH2AAEy9V.jpg

No

Eh

I can't imagine people would stills be playing fighting games without things like a super meter, so it pretty has to be a default of "yes."

ellis123 posted...

I can't imagine people would stills be playing fighting games without things like a super meter, so it pretty has to be a default of "yes."

A super meter and a comeback system are two different things.

It's the reason most competitive games have players other than elitist snobs. So yes. I'm a fan of comeback mechanics.

Rubber band ai used to be the blight of gaming. Things have gotten so much worse that it is something that isnt even thought about anymore.

Bullet Bill 2024

Dakimakura posted...

Rubber band ai used to be the blight of gaming. Things have gotten so much worse that it is something that isnt even thought about anymore.

Like in need for speed you're in first place by a lot then the other racers catch up in no time when you break around a corner or some shit.

VeggetaX posted...

A super meter and a comeback system are two different things.

Yes. But only in the same way as the relationship between a square and a rectangle are not the same thing. Street Fighter II, the origin of the super meter, even sold it not as a gameplay thing but explicitly as a comeback mechanic.

trappedunderice posted...

Like in need for speed you're in first place by a lot then the other racers catch up in no time when you break around a corner or some shit.

I don't mind when a player does it, but it's complete bullshit when an AI does it. Was really notorious in older games.

Do you guys think Limit Breakers from FF7 as a form of a comeback mechanic? The reason I ask this is because in fighting games the people who are against comeback mechanics' logic is "the game rewards you for losing or taking damage". That logic would apply to Limit Breakers right?

VeggetaX posted...

Do you guys think Limit Breakers from FF7 as a form of a comeback mechanic?

They are not, no.

VeggetaX posted...

The reason I ask this is because in fighting games the people who are against comeback mechanics' logic is "the game rewards you for losing or taking damage". That logic would apply to Limit Breakers right?

A comeback mechanic is something that gives an advantage to the losing side as a way to keep things even and so that the losing side always has the threat of pulling a come from behind victory. Limit Breaks are purely just gameplay letting you see flashy attacks far more than they actually pull you from behind. This is doubly so as there is no real such thing as a "comeback mechanic" when the two sides are inherently playing completely different games as is the case in RPGs. It's why enemies have massively higher HP pools but comparatively lower Atk power: that isn't a comeback mechanic, it's just a mechanic.

VeggetaX posted...

The reason I ask this is because in fighting games the people who are against comeback mechanics' logic is "the game rewards you for losing or taking damage".

Lolwut? Please show me this "rewarding you for losing or taking damage" pathetic crowd so I can laugh at them lol

Several Guilty Gear games have Instant Kill moves! INSTANT. KILL. Forget comeback, they have a "you-win" mechanic here yet nobody in their right mind would ever accuse Guilty Gear games as "rewarding you for losing or taking damage". Now let that sink in...

Want another example? Let's see the X-Ray moves in MKX. Those might be considered a comeback mechanic by starting players, however, for regular players it's nothing but yet another form of attack which can be used, countered and retaliated against. Both newbie and regular can and will use it against you.

So from my pov it rewards everyone, both starting player who uses it as a last ditch effort and regular player who uses it to complement their arsenal. It doesn't reward the losing side exclusively.

nocturnal_traveler posted...

It's the reason most competitive games have players other than elitist snobs. So yes. I'm a fan of comeback mechanics.

Also this...

nocturnal_traveler posted...

I don't mind when a player does it, but it's complete bullshit when an AI does it. Was really notorious in older games.

...and this.

https://youtu.be/vimZj8HW0Kg?si=ub2_I6BP_6w7h_S-

As long as they're balanced okay. Mario Kart seems like too much of a clusterfuck, especially after they added blue shells.

ellis123 posted...

They are not, no.

A comeback mechanic is something that gives an advantage to the losing side as a way to keep things even and so that the losing side always has the threat of pulling a come from behind victory. Limit Breaks are purely just gameplay letting you see flashy attacks far more than they actually pull you from behind. This is doubly so as there is no real such thing as a "comeback mechanic" when the two sides are inherently playing completely different games as is the case in RPGs. It's why enemies have massively higher HP pools but comparatively lower Atk power: that isn't a comeback mechanic, it's just a mechanic.

What if the meter goes up faster if you're low on health?

Smash Bros. Ultimate has a few characters with comeback mechanics. I play Lukario, pretty much the character that started them in Smash, in that game so I guess so, in this context it can be a double edge sword because one day you read a roll at the ledge and kill at 30% with max aura fsmash and the following day you can't kill at 200%.

I thought this was gonna be about like... when you're downed in Borderlands and can kill an enemy to get second wind.

Not blue shell stuff.

Though I guess they're not too far apart.

ellis123 posted...

I can't imagine people would stills be playing fighting games without things like a super meter, so it pretty has to be a default of "yes."

Virtua Fighter still going strong, baby. But generally, while there comeback elements in things like super meter gains, and even round resets, "comeback mechanics" are usually considered gains in excess of what you should earn for doing poorly. You still need to play well to use super meter meter, as nowadays actually using super moves itself comes with the risk of losing out on EX moves. Ultra, on the other hand, was fed almost entirely by getting your own ass beat, and gave absurd damage unscaled. "I guess right once where you guess right three times, and now we have equal health, haha."

And fuck X Factor.

I think Rage in Super Smash Bros Ultimate is a pretty dumb mechanic, basically the higher your % the more knockback your moves do. Most games you both hit each other a lot on your first stock, then say you get killed, now not only are you down a full stock but your opponent hits like a truck and can kill you even earlier.

At least Ultimate toned this down quite a bit compared to Wii U, but it is still annoying sometimes. As far as some characters like Lucario, Terry, Joker, etc having their own mechanic I dont mind it too much, it makes that character unique.