Current Events > Wait technically Nintendo are losing potential money on the Switch right? Or.. ?

(+) Yeah! (+)

By consolidating their handheld and console market into one, they've effectively removed themselves from the entire handheld market of which they reigned Supreme for like 30 years.

So while it's true that switch technically sold more than their previous console the wii, it really should be compared to the ds as well and it's made no where near the combined sales of wii and ds.

Considering they haven't had this level of success before in the history of the company I don't think they're losing money at all.

Theoretically, yes

There was a news article recently saying Nintendo is the richest company in Japan, I think they're doing fine.

Temporarily unite as many users together on one platform to entice a subscription. Then start selling them multiple platforms again.

Probably not. With how much of a flop the Wii U was and how relatively less the 3DS sold compared to past handhelds (like half what the DS sold), they probably wouldn't have had a great generation if they had stuck to their format.

In pure hardware and software sales yes. They're not reaching that high again.

But they charge more per game, have a subscription service and their first party games sell more to make up for it. On top of that they have also diversified their merchandising and licensing.

Not sure how much they make from mobile but that's something they do as well.

It's weird how Nintendo is literally the most successful right now but everyone just pretends they aren't.

N64, while not a flop, performed weak compared to the competition.
GameCube was a bit of a flop.
Wii was a big success out of the gate, but flopped in in its late years.
Wii U was a flop.

Nintendo has struggled to a degree in the non-portable console business since the SNES. So there is no guarantee that a strictly non-portable console would be a success.

The line between dedicated handheld system and console system seems to have blurred, to the point that things will probably never ever be the same

You're comparing the Switch to a one off generation. No, the Switch didn't outperform the Wii and DS combined, because doing so would be a huge miracle.

Regardless, hardware isn't what makes money in gaming. Selling software (ideally, on your own platform) is where the big bucks are.

Revisited posted...

By consolidating their handheld and console market into one, they've effectively removed themselves from the entire handheld market of which they reigned Supreme for like 30 years.

No. Hardware-wise the Switch is a handheld. The dock is simply a packed in accessory.

Revisited posted...

So while it's true that switch technically sold more than their previous console the wii, it really should be compared to the ds as well and it's made no where near the combined sales of wii and ds.

Most of Nintendo's consoles sold nowhere near as much as the Wii either. The console division was barely making any money during the Wii U era and they produced a much greater profit by merging it into the handheld division.

Youre looking at it wrong. They found a way to charge console prices for handheld games and opened up handheld consumers to console games.

And all without competing with cellphones anymore.

Ok now that's a twist when you think about it, the console division actually being the one that was merged away not the handheld.

Revisited posted...

The line between dedicated handheld system and console system seems to have blurred, to the point that things will probably never ever be the same

This, really. There's not too much point making a distinction between a handheld and a home console nowadays when handheld devices can run full fledged home console standard games. The Switch can just about do both, with some performance sacrifices, but it's running on some fairly old technology, a next gen continuation of the same idea can do a much better job with far less noticeable sacrifices so the concept of a handheld/console split seems like something Nintendo probably won't need go back to.

Uhh... Nintendo was at a point where the next handheld would have been HD anyway, which meant exponentially higher costs than previous handhelds (3DS, DS). It was better to consolidate all their resources/development time/energy and cost into one console. And it worked.

And it's not like Sony or MS is competing in the handheld market.

The Wii and DS existing together were an anomaly that will never happen again. 3DS and Wii U were a shit show, especially the latter.

Arcanine2009 posted...

Uhh... Nintendo was at a point where the next handheld would have been HD anyway, which meant exponentially higher costs than previous handhelds (3DS, DS). It was better to consolidate all their resources/development time/energy and cost into one console. And it worked.

And it's not like Sony or MS is competing in the handheld market.

The Wii and DS existing together were an anomaly that will never happen again. 3DS and Wii U were a shit show, especially the latter.

Yeah very true. Still, going forward it means they've put their eggs all on this one basket though, for better or worse. If it doesn't take off they don't have a secondary division to fall back on. They'd have to be in it to win it

-Crissaegrim- posted...

This, really. There's not too much point making a distinction between a handheld and a home console nowadays when handheld devices can run full fledged home console standard games. The Switch can just about do both, with some performance sacrifices, but it's running on some fairly old technology, a next gen continuation of the same idea can do a much better job with far less noticeable sacrifices so the concept of a handheld/console split seems like something Nintendo probably won't need go back to.

So you think it's a permanent move forward for Nintendo to do basically a powerful handheld tablet that can be docked to TV?

Vyrulisse posted...

It's weird how Nintendo is literally the most successful right now but everyone just pretends they aren't.

Nintendo: Going out of business since 1889

Bosstoise posted...

Nintendo: Going out of business since 1889

This reminds me, a few days ago I was watching an old American Gladiators episode from season 2 and out of nowhere there was a sponsor pop up for the NES baked into the episode. Totally threw me for a moment due to not expecting it.

I doubt they lose money since they deliver freakin' 140 million consoles so far. If they did lose money, they'd come up with plan for next console already. Btw, there was rumor that Switch 2 will be on the way but did not say when ?.

It's not that simple. Their home consoles outside the Wii haven't sold gangbusters but they had higher margins, except like the Wii U which they kinda sold at some loss for a bit IIRC.

Comparatively their handhelds always sell like crazy, but they're inherently cheaper both hardware and software wise in their MSRP, even though the cost of production isn't even that much lower. The 3DS was sold at a loss for a bit during their price cut arc. $170 by today's standard is like pretty damn cheap for a console that comes with 2 screens and one of them runs double resolution due to 3D. Just because the graphics aren't as powerful doesn't mean it's like phenomenally cheaper

Switch on the other hand was only briefly sold at a loss during the chip shortage era but had insane return on each units. They're still selling well and is one of the highest selling consoles of all time, so you mix that together, and you might even find that Nintendo realized handhelds have been holding them back this whole time. Since the Wii, their infrared and other motion techs have also gotten much cheaper and less specialized, but also the Joy Cons are like $80

Handheld is specifically a loss for the consumers. They were very affordable, and their dev time never took that long and had very consistent stream of quality releases. Also their games always relied on gameplay more than flashy graphics to distract the players. Handheld aficionados can attest to this, that the only thing a handheld was truly deficient in was being able to travel in larger worlds (technically Xenoblade 1 worked but... it's by far the worst version of that game on the 3DS), but they generally just had much funner games for cheaper and for far less waiting time, but it also cost the companies developing them very little aside from creative manpower.

Bosstoise posted...

Nintendo: Going out of business since 1889

I mean things were pretty dire around the gamecube era before they turned it around, when gaming was in its teen years

legendarylemur posted...

It's not that simple. Their home consoles outside the Wii haven't sold gangbusters but they had higher margins, except like the Wii U which they kinda sold at some loss for a bit IIRC.

Comparatively their handhelds always sell like crazy, but they're inherently cheaper both hardware and software wise in their MSRP, even though the cost of production isn't even that much lower. The 3DS was sold at a loss for a bit during their price cut arc. $170 by today's standard is like pretty damn cheap for a console that comes with 2 screens and one of them runs double resolution due to 3D. Just because the graphics aren't as powerful doesn't mean it's like phenomenally cheaper

Switch on the other hand was only briefly sold at a loss during the chip shortage era but had insane return on each units. They're still selling well and is one of the highest selling consoles of all time, so you mix that together, and you might even find that Nintendo realized handhelds have been holding them back this whole time. Since the Wii, their infrared and other motion techs have also gotten much cheaper and less specialized, but also the Joy Cons are like $80

Handheld is specifically a loss for the consumers. They were very affordable, and their dev time never took that long and had very consistent stream of quality releases. Also their games always relied on gameplay more than flashy graphics to distract the players. Handheld aficionados can attest to this, that the only thing a handheld was truly deficient in was being able to travel in larger worlds (technically Xenoblade 1 worked but... it's by far the worst version of that game on the 3DS), but they generally just had much funner games for cheaper and for far less waiting time, but it also cost the companies developing them very little aside from creative manpower.

So you argue the opposite to the above users, it's actually the handheld that was holding them back and thus merged away, not the console division?

Revisited posted...

So you think it's a permanent move forward for Nintendo to do basically a powerful handheld tablet that can be docked to TV?

Definitely. The Switch is working out very well for them, so it'd be in their best interest to iterate and improve upon it.

Dedicated handhelds are pretty much dead, in the face of cheap smartphone games, which everyone--even little kids, unfortunately--have some kind of mobile device. I don't ever see kids playing on handheld consoles while I'm out or at work, but I do see them constantly on tablets and smartphones.

Revisited posted...

So while it's true that switch technically sold more than their previous console the wii, it really should be compared to the ds as well and it's made no where near the combined sales of wii and ds.

Why not compare it to the Wii U and 3DS?

Nintendo isn't losing money by any stretch of the imagination. They have a shitload of cash on hand, they use older, cheaper technology and they pay their upper management significantly less than Western companies do.

Solar_Crimson posted...

Definitely. The Switch is working out very well for them, so it'd be in their best interest to iterate and improve upon it.

Dedicated handhelds are pretty much dead, in the face of cheap smartphone games, which everyone--even little kids, unfortunately--have some kind of mobile device. I don't ever see kids playing on handheld consoles while I'm out or at work, but I do see them constantly on tablets and smartphones.

Percentage wise do you consider switch more of a handheld system or console system?

Revisited posted...

So you argue the opposite to the above users, it's actually the handheld that was holding them back and thus merged away, not the console division?

Yes, and it's probably true. Otherwise we'd see them release a dedicated handheld in the middle of the Switch's lifespan, because those have always sold well for them. Also even though a lot of games on the DS/3DS sold really well, the top titles were mostly Pokemon and Mario Kart. Neither sold on the level that MK8D and Animal Crossing ended up selling on the Switch at double the price. At this point, handhelds should basically be dead

IceCreamOnStero posted...

Regardless, hardware isn't what makes money in gaming. Selling software (ideally, on your own platform) is where the big bucks are.

yup, this is where Nintendo gets its lunch eaten by Sony. Nintendos relations with third party especially AAA developers is terrible, and its hardware is too weak to run AAA games.