Current Events > Sneasel is so bad in Pokemon GSC

(+) Yeah! (+)

ellis123 posted...

There was a dude that pit all of the trainers together on Youtube. Gen 2 came bottom across the board, minus Whitney.

That's because of the extraordinarily low level curve of the gyms. Claire topping out at 40 when Sabrina and Blaine both have lvl 50? Come on now.

DoctorPiranha3 posted...

10 levels too low from what? Your team is also low-leveled in comparison. The E4 in this game is more like mid-late game than a true end game, considering the Kanto content.

Unless you're talking about a predetermined Feraligatr solo, which I assume most people didn't do... yeah, Dragonites are gonna fuck you up. Especially since one of them knows Thunder which would wreck your level 40 Feraligatr

Kanto is the late game. Johto is half the length of the other games and even Lance is in the 40's. At the time it is also trivial without grinding to be in the 50's.

ellis123 posted...

Kanto is the late game. Johto is half the length of the other games and even Lance is in the 40's. At the time it is also trivial without grinding to be in the 50's.

...you do realize the game has a lower level curve that also affects the player's Pokemon? Because it doesn't matter if Lance's Pokemon are level 90 or level 20. Point is, your Pokemon are 5-10 levels lower than his are, and thus to scale to the elite 4 in the other gens.

This game also has badge boosts and stat experience, which makes up for being a little under leveled.

DoctorPiranha3 posted...

...you do realize the game has a lower level curve that also affects the player's Pokemon? Because it doesn't matter if Lance's Pokemon are level 90 or level 20. Point is, your Pokemon are 5-10 levels lower than his are, and thus to scale to the elite 4 in the other gens.

No, point is you are above his level. Just because you faffed around with Sentret didn't mean that others did. Similarly pointing out that Gen 2 Pokemon were trash until the end doesn't matter for difficulty as you can still clown on everything with Gen 1 dudes. You actively making it harder on yourself doesn't make Gen 2's E4 any less of a joke.

I was probably level 40 at the Johto E4

ellis123 posted...

No, point is you are above his level. Just because you faffed around with Sentret didn't mean that others did. Similarly pointing out that Gen 2 Pokemon were trash until the end doesn't matter for difficulty as you can still clown on everything with Gen 1 dudes. You actively making it harder on yourself doesn't make Gen 2's E4 any less of a joke.

No, you're not above his level. I highly suggest that you play the games again.

No one said anything about Sentret... point is, the available Pokemon options are complete dogshit before the E4 in this game, and so are the movepools. Gen 1 and other gens have a far wider variety of moves and Pokemon available.

Of course it can be cheesed when you know what you're doing, but most kids back then didn't preplan their team and just used what was available. Which was comparatively shit to all other generations.

NeonBoobs posted...

I was probably level 40 at the Johto E4

The Lake of Rage is available several gyms prior to the E4 in which you can catch a level 40 Gyarados.

ellis123 posted...

The Lake of Rage is available several gyms prior to the E4 in which you can catch a level 40 Gyarados.

Level 30.

DoctorPiranha3 posted...

Level 30.

I didn't say the Shiny Gyarados.

ellis123 posted...

I didn't say the Shiny Gyarados.

Well 30 is the highest level Gyarados you can get pre E4, because you can only catch a level 40 Gyarados at the Lake of Rage after getting the Super Rod... a post E4 item.

DoctorPiranha3 posted...

Well 30 is the highest level Gyarados you can get pre E4, because you can only catch a level 40 Gyarados at the Lake of Rage after getting the Super Rod... a post E4 item.

Ah, true.

I remember Hitmonchan being the biggest "Screw you, pal" pitch thrown in Gen 1. He seems amazing because he gets those elemental punches, and you think "Oh man, the coverage!" But then they work based on the Special stat.

DoctorPiranha3 posted...

Yep. And to top it off, the Elite 4 was the hardest in this game because your main team was likely to be shitmons with shit movepools. Good luck getting past Lance's three fucking Dragonites with the shit maingame mons and without doing research ahead of time.

What were they thinking?!

I don't agree with this. For a few reasons.

Dealing with Lance isn't that bad. Gen 2 lets you buy Ice Punch, which goes nicely on Kadabra/Alakazam, Feraligatr, Jynx, Slowbro, etc. You are also given Icy Wind from beating Pryce. If you are playing Crystal, you will almost certainly have Suicune that learns Aurora Beam at Level 41. Lapras is also an option although requires a guide/info to know how to get it. As for the rest, Will's team crumbles to going after the type that pairs with psychic of his Pokemon (they are all dual type), Koga's team isn't that good, Bruno only really has his Machamp which is a threat, and as for Karen, outside of Houndoom, not many of her Pokemon are all that threatening, particularly if you bring some Full Heals.

As for having a team of shitmons...you are forgetting that the game is generous in terms of the Gen 1 Pokemon that you can get. Gen 2 Pokemon are surprisingly more rare, but there are a few good picks. Before facing the Elite Four, you do have a fair selection including...

Normal Type: Tauros, Miltank, Ursaring
Fire Type: Typhlosion, Magmar, Entei, Ho-Oh
Water or Ice Type: Gyarados, Feraligatr, Lapras, Suicune, Lanturn, Jynx, Mantine
Electric Type: Ampharos, Lanturn, Raikou
Psychic Type: Kababra/Alakazam, Jynx, Espeon, Luiga
Fighting Type: Machoke/Machamp
Ground or Rock Type: Graveler/Golem, Donphan
Dark Type: Umbreon

Luiga and Ho-Oh you can only get before the Elite Four in Silver/Gold respectively. As for the Legendary Beasts, outside of Suicune in Crystal, the game gives you a Master Ball for a reason to use on a runner. Use it on whichever one you want.

I'm sure I'm forgetting a few more viable picks, but that's just off the top of my head. Pick a few and you are good to go.

Charged151 posted...

I don't agree with this. For a few reasons.

Dealing with Lance isn't that bad. Gen 2 lets you buy Ice Punch, which goes nicely on Kadabra/Alakazam, Feraligatr, Jynx, Slowbro, etc. You are also given Icy Wind from beating Pryce. If you are playing Crystal, you will almost certainly have Suicune that learns Aurora Beam at Level 41. Lapras is also an option although requires a guide/info to know how to get it.

As for having a team of shitmons...you are forgetting that the game is generous in terms of the Gen 1 Pokemon that you can get. Gen 2 Pokemon are surprisingly more rare, but there are a few good picks. Before facing the Elite Four, you do have a fair selection including...

Normal Type: Tauros, Miltank, Ursaring
Fire Type: Typhlosion, Magmar, Entei, Ho-Oh
Water or Ice Type: Gyarados, Feraligatr, Lapras, Suicune, Lanturn, Jynx, Mantine
Electric Type: Ampharos, Lanturn, Raikou
Psychic Type: Kababra/Alakazam, Jynx, Espeon, Luiga
Fighting Type: Machoke/Machamp
Ground or Rock Type: Graveler/Golem, Donphan
Dark Type: Umbreon

Luiga and Ho-Oh you can only get before the Elite Four in Silver/Gold respectively. As for the Legendary Beasts, outside of Suicune in Crystal, the game gives you a Master Ball for a reason. Use it on whichever one you want.

I'm sure I'm forgetting a few more viable picks, but that's just off the top of my head. Pick a few and you are good to go.

This reminds me that one thing I love is how consistently good the Gen 1 trade Pokemon have been, atleast for in-game. Later trade mons haven't necessarily lived up to their precedent, but all of Golem/Alakazam/Gengar/Machamp basically mow down any game you can get them in.

I'll never forget when Machamp got No Guard, so that things like Dynamic Punch couldn't miss, which just made him utterly broken for the regular game.

The Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl E4 is the hardest, but no one played it so no one knows that.

Turbam posted...

The Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl E4 is the hardest, but no one played it so no one knows that.

I loved BD/SP for what it was. I get people wanted more, but if you get past that disappointment, it's pretty much what people wanted out of more modern Pokemon games: An actual difficult experience.

StealThisSheen posted...

I remember Hitmonchan being the biggest "Screw you, pal" pitch thrown in Gen 1. He seems amazing because he gets those elemental punches, and you think "Oh man, the coverage!" But then they work based on the Special stat.

lol yeah, kid me was so confused why Hitmonchan was trash cuz I didnt know they were related to the special stat

NeonBoobs posted...

lol yeah, kid me was so confused why Hitmonchan was trash cuz I didnt know they were related to the special stat

The crazy thing is that since FR/LG are also pre-split, Hitmonchan doesn't get to wreck the game until Let's Go.

EDIT: I'm specifically referring to RBY, to be clear, since you can be given one via the fighting dojo, which you can get to fairly early. You could argue HG/SS, but I think you can't get Tyrogue until later in the game, though I may be wrong on that.

StealThisSheen posted...

This reminds me that one thing I love is how consistently good the Gen 1 trade Pokemon have been, atleast for in-game. Later trade mons haven't necessarily lived up to their precedent, but all of Golem/Alakazam/Gengar/Machamp basically mow down any game you can get them in.

I'll never forget when Machamp got No Guard, so that things like Dynamic Punch couldn't miss, which just made him utterly broken for the regular game.

In my last run of Crystal (a few years ago), I used a Graveler and Kadabra all the way until Red. Even without being able to trade, the mid evolutions still put in a lot of work. Next time I play Pokemon though I'll probably get a mod or something that allows for getting trade evolutions...without trading. Trade evolving just feels like a terrible mechanic overall. The popular Pokemon Randomizer already let's you do this.
https://pokehacks.dabomstew.com/randomizer/changedevos.php

Pororin posted...

NeonDicktopus?

NeonCocktopus*

Charged151 posted...

In my last run of Crystal (a few years ago), I used a Graveler and Kadabra all the way until Red. Even without being able to trade, the mid evolutions still put in a lot of work. Next time I play Pokemon though I'll probably get a mod or something that allows for getting trade evolutions...without trading. Trade evolving just feels like a terrible mechanic overall. The popular Pokemon Randomizer already let's you do this.
https://pokehacks.dabomstew.com/randomizer/changedevos.php

Oh, absolutely. The mid evos do work. The fully evolveds just wreck... Everything. But you're right, I remember using Graveler and Machoke in my GSC run, too.

And, yes, I absolutely recommend any and all mods that allow you to evolve without trading. They're a blast.

Turbam posted...

The Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl E4 is the hardest, but no one played it so no one knows that.

Having to face this after going to Stark Mountain is a hard challenge alright...
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/5e193b92.jpg

StealThisSheen posted...

I loved BD/SP for what it was. I get people wanted more, but if you get past that disappointment, it's pretty much what people wanted out of more modern Pokemon games: An actual difficult experience.

I still have no idea why GameFreak couldn't make TMs reusable in BD/SP... Yes, you can get more, but come on...

Charged151 posted...

I still have no idea why GameFreak couldn't make TMs reusable in BD/SP... Yes, you can get more, but come on...

This is fair. That said, reusable TMs and harder difficulty do seem like things that kinda go against each other, so it's sorta a... "You can't make everybody happy" kind of situation.

StealThisSheen posted...

This is fair. That said, reusable TMs and harder difficulty do seem like things that kinda go against each other, so it's sorta a... "You can't make everybody happy" kind of situation.

*Shrugs* True

IceCreamOnStero posted...

Curselax doesn't even run Shadow Ball. It usually runs Earthquake or Special coverage instead.

For meta/multiplayer maybe but I was just talking about in game. Mine ran shadow ball and my Aerodactyl ran earthquake and those two carried me through the e4

I was roughly 40 at the elite 4 when I did a playthrough where I did not faint any wild pokemon or use any rare candies (just a very light challenge run)

Real question tho: What level were y'all pokes when you beat Red the first time?

think the actual games peaked in gens 2 and 3

PvP gameplay peaked in gens 4 and 5

Touch posted...

Real question tho: What level were y'all pokes when you beat Red the first time?

Late 60s I think? The grind was fucking unbearable

BoyOfBattle posted...

PvP gameplay peaked in gens 4 and 5

The PvP gameplay is definitely peaking now in the SwSh and SV era, since it's much more accessible than ever, and so you're getting more varied gameplay styles than before. That's one thing modern Pokemon is absolutely doing right.

Touch posted...

Real question tho: What level were y'all pokes when you beat Red the first time?

I had a vastly overleveled Pikachu that did everything lmao

Touch posted...

Real question tho: What level were y'all pokes when you beat Red the first time?

Low 60's mainly. I had both Ho-oh and Luiga, so it wasn't that bad.

I think the highest I had for Red was a 67 or so.

Guide posted...

I had a vastly overleveled Pikachu that did everything lmao

Wait, wait, I confused Red with Blue somehow, even though this is GSC. They was probably an overleveled Feraligatr and a bunch of 40something other guys.

The jankiness of Gen 2 is part of the reason why I love it.

PvP took a nosedive when they introduced team preview. Was that gen 5 or 6?

LeCh0nk posted...

PvP took a nosedive when they introduced team preview. Was that gen 5 or 6?

5

it had pros and cons but imo team preview was good for PvP. sure you couldnt surprise reverse sweep the opponent with like a last mon lucario vs a blissey anymore, but seeing team comps off the bat meant you needed to strategize from turn 1.

also with team preview, you didnt need to sac 1 team slot to a dedicated "lead" anymore. shoutout to my TrickScarf uxie i ran in 4th gen tho

Kingler had this issue in gen 1. High attack, low special, but no STAB physical moves

Same with Scyther and Pinsir in gen 1. Great attacking stat. Literally only learned a few normal moves >_> I think Yellow gave Scyther STAB Wing Attack...which was 35 BP lol

NeonBoobs posted...

Same with Scyther and Pinsir in gen 1. Great attacking stat. Literally only learned a few normal moves >_> I think Yellow gave Scyther STAB Wing Attack...which was 35 BP lol

I used a Game Shark to put Mega Horn on those two, among other attacks for other Pokemon that were lacking in beneficial moveset varieties.

I remember using gameshark to put rock slide on Aerodactyl in gen 2 cuz even fucking Lance had it on his, but it was impossible to get on your's.

NeonBoobs posted...

I remember using gameshark to put rock slide on Aerodactyl in gen 2 cuz even fucking Lance had it on his, but it was impossible to get on your's.

Yeah...between his Barrier Dragonite in Gen 1, his impossibly low level Dragonites in Gen 2, and his Aerodactyl with Rock Slide also in Gen 2, he has a lot to answer for.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I think the issue with focusing on what the actual tournament players want is... That's what lead to things like Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite being so much worse than previous titles. When you cater only to the most hardcore PvP players, it becomes less fun for everybody else. Granted, MvC ended up not even doing the former right, so they lost both, but... The point stands.

The ratio of people willing to try playing competitive battles online has definitely increased in correlation with how easy it is to do so, and I think that's a bigger win. At the end of the day, the tournament players are still playing, even if they gripe. Meanwhile, by making things easier, you're getting more people enjoying online than ever before.

NeonBoobs posted...

Yeah, as people said, good luck getting Tyranitar at the end of the game lol. Plus it doesnt have sand stream nor get the Sp. Def boost from it either

When the game came to 3DS, I did a run with a traded Larvitar from the very beginning, so it was always getting the extra EXP.

It still didnt become a Tyranitar until RIGHT before Blue.

comicfire posted...

When the game came to 3DS, I did a run with a traded Larvitar from the very beginning, so it was always getting the extra EXP.

It still didnt become a Tyranitar until RIGHT before Blue.

Geez

comicfire posted...

When the game came to 3DS, I did a run with a traded Larvitar from the very beginning, so it was always getting the extra EXP.

It still didn't become a Tyranitar until RIGHT before Blue.

Ha! I remember now. I used the ExtremeSpeed Dratini in a Crystal run a few years ago and it was still a Dragonair by the time I got to Blue. I had it use Waterfall or Surf on the Rhydon...and it failed to KO and got 1 shot in return. Bummer. It wasn't very helpful in the Red fight either as a Dragonite. Come to think of it, it didn't contribute much the whole run. Maybe I should have used something else.

That"s the problem with pseudos. They're just trash for 95% of the game in singleplayer. They're strictly for multiplayer or battle towers.