Current Events > Why are tik toks out there telling people to read Letter to America by Osama

(+) Yeah! (+)

I saw something about this on a conspiracy site. I sorta skimmed it.

It struck me as being false. Fake. Some troll or propaganda piece someone who isn't Osama wrote up and just put his name to cause it'd be more likely to go viral.

I'll admit I didn't try and prove or debunk it or anything, but I'd be seriously surprised if any instance of that body of text existed elsewhere on the internet prior to very recently, when it's convenient for someone.

Edit:

Hm, looks like may be a legit letter. Huh. Gonna have to look more into it I guess.

Edit 2:....Huh.

JuanCarlos1 posted...

Did you just play Final Fantasy or something? People will never understand unless you've lived it yourself. I'm an American citizen living in PR. There are many positives to this and also negatives. But you can see first hand the negatives of living under a colony and how we have no control on some of the biggest issues affecting the island. And its good that the typical American be made aware of what your tax dollars contribute to so you can elect better leaders (oh I also cant vote for president, but can do so for primaries...wtf came up with that)

I dont hate the US. My beef is with the government and politicians.

Is there any current push for statehood happening these days?

rags_alt posted...

I saw something about this on a conspiracy site. I sorta skimmed it.

It struck me as being false. Fake. Some troll or propaganda piece someone who isn't Osama wrote up and just put his name to cause it'd be more likely to go viral.

I'll admit I didn't try and prove or debunk it or anything, but I'd be seriously surprised if any instance of that body of text existed elsewhere on the internet prior to very recently, when it's convenient for someone.

The Letter? It was written long ago and released in 2002.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/alqaida.terrorism
https://web.archive.org/web/20210529203149/https://scholarship.tricolib.brynmawr.edu/handle/10066/4746

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Thats exactly his point.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Not all that wild. There has been news about Biden losing votes from the relevant demographics solely on the basis of the whole Gaza thing.

Lol is Osama gonna be the next Che Guevara for American teenagers?

GhostFaceLeaks posted...

The younger generation are so anti-American that even American children would rather side with Bin Laden over Americans.

Let that sink in.

Nah. TikTok is just cancer. Vine(the OG tiktok) and MySpace was never this bad. There is no other social media that I can think that tell people do stupid things more than TikTok.

emblem-man posted...

Is there any current push for statehood happening these days?

It'll never happen. The pro statehood party mainly uses statehood as a gimmick to garner votes, but tends to sabotage some more real efforts. Like others have said, it could be over to avoid more federal oversight since its the most corrupt territory of the US. Seriously, the FBI has done a decent amount of arrests over the last few years.

NOW...even if all of the island joined in favor of statehood, it would also never happen. Theres no real interest from congress. Republicans would never allow it, they think its overwhelmingly democrat when the truth is that its very conservative. And democrats...even if some would vote in favor, they still answer to big interests who benefit from PR staying like it is.

And if the US had wanted to be a state, it wouldve happened by now. And to answer your original question, there isnt any big push right now. Maybe another vote on it when elections come next year.

I am super willing to bet PR statehood happens in our lifetime.

Sahel posted...

The Letter? It was written long ago and released in 2002.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/nov/24/alqaida.terrorism
https://web.archive.org/web/20210529203149/https://scholarship.tricolib.brynmawr.edu/handle/10066/4746

Yeah, I see that now. Cause of where I initially saw it I was skeptical, a lot of bullshit over on that site usually. Edited my original post.

I get the messenger is Osama Bin Laden, but for quite a while now I've had the impression most, if not all, of politics is just political theater and our elected officials - probably all of them - aren't as free to govern for the people as they should be, because of the influence money has on.. everything, and who it is spending that money.

OHHHH, tagged appropriately, man, way to stay open to ideas and opinions...I don't think we give our souls or even everything to Israel but we do unequivocally support them and along with Britain we were one of the main movers and shakers in the treaty that established their state. Furthermore, you have no idea of my background but yet, I notice I cannot quote certain individuals to respond to them, way to actually have an engaging discussion on fine details. I bet you can't stand Christopher Hitchens either.

boomgetchopped3 posted...

Youre missing the context entirely. Bin Laden isnt making any points that are his. Hes simply echoing our concerns of income inequality and corporate greed in an effort to appear for the people. Thats all hes doing. People who act like theyre actually gaining incite from his letter are exposing themselves as idiots.

Then you have no idea and at how badly the US education system and american propaganda machine has failed its citizenry.

The far left has always been a rough section for progressives but they have really jumped the shark since October 7th. I'm hoping as the core becomes more radicalized they bleed off more and more normal people and they can have even less influence on our society.

royic posted...

We got AIPAC raising 100 million against progressives in congress because they don't approve of Israel's foreign policy

Thought you were gonna say tax money or something.

Isn't AIPAC just a pro-Israel American lobby? I don't like them either and think they're wrong, but that's not really the same as a foreign nation influencing Americans is it? It's just two groups of Americans disagreeing on foreign policy.

royic posted...

But even if it were not true of foreign nations, corporations buying elections is a complaint of like every american

Yeah, there's a lot of bad involvement with politicians, lobbies, and laws. I'll agree with that. I don't think it's a unique American thing though.

Like, it's true, but what is the argument. We all know it doesn't justify what Osama did. And yes the US political system can be better in regards to some aspects of lobbying.

This would be highly concerning if I was convinced anyone who gets their political theory from tiktok was competent at literslly anything else.

But Im not

emblem-man posted...

Isn't AIPAC just a pro-Israel American lobby? I don't like them either and think they're wrong, but that's not really the same as a foreign nation influencing Americans is it? It's just two groups of Americans disagreeing on foreign policy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlKmWa8p4UM

rags_alt posted...

Yeah, I see that now. Cause of where I initially saw it I was skeptical, a lot of bullshit over on that site usually. Edited my original post.

I get the messenger is Osama Bin Laden, but for quite a while now I've had the impression most, if not all, of politics is just political theater and our elected officials - probably all of them - aren't as free to govern for the people as they should be, because of the influence money has on.. everything, and who it is spending that money.

What do you mean by that?

emblem-man posted...

Thought you were gonna say tax money or something.

Isn't AIPAC just a pro-Israel American lobby? I don't like them either and think they're wrong, but that's not really the same as a foreign nation influencing Americans is it? It's just two groups of Americans disagreeing on foreign policy.

Yeah, there's a lot of bad involvement with politicians, lobbies, and laws. I'll agree with that. I don't think it's a unique American thing though.

Like, it's true, but what is the argument. We all know it doesn't justify what Osama did. And yes the US political system can be better in regards to some aspects of lobbying.

Clueless

SunburnCostanza posted...

The far left has always been a rough section for progressives but they have really jumped the shark since October 7th. I'm hoping as the core becomes more radicalized they bleed off more and more normal people and they can have even less influence on our society.

There are some definite anti semites showing up at the rallies, but the vast majority of it I have seen is "the US should not support a regime that is inflicting this many civilian casualties"

boomgetchopped3 posted...

Youre missing the context entirely. Bin Laden isnt making any points that are his. Hes simply echoing our concerns of income inequality and corporate greed in an effort to appear for the people. Thats all hes doing. People who act like theyre actually gaining incite from his letter are exposing themselves as idiots.

It's an elaborate form of whataboutism, presented as a statement rather than a question.

ejolson posted...

OBL is a bad dude, no question, but we also must reckon with the fact that he made some very succinct and true statements about the US in that letter.

The letter was a justification for the 9/11 attacks so what justifications for killing like 4000 people did he write that weren't complete drivel?

Tyranthraxus posted...

The letter was a justification for the 9/11 attacks so what justifications for killing like 4000 people did he write that weren't complete drivel?

People here have tried to justify the US dropping nukes on Japan, killing hundreds of thousands of people. Before you try to say "that was a war", from bin laden's perspective, he was in a war too.

People seriously trying to argue in Bin Laden's favor ITT lol

1337toothbrush posted...

People here have tried to justify the US dropping nukes on Japan, killing hundreds of thousands of people. Before you try to say "that was a war", from bin laden's perspective, he was in a war too.

That's weird because I don't remember ever saying nukes were justified and in fact emphatically argued they were not in every topic about it.

Not that it has anything to do with Osama bin Laden. I mean there's a lot of stupid ass shit in that letter but he never talks about Japan.

Crimsoness posted...

People seriously trying to argue in Bin Laden's favor ITT lol

Welcome to modern day society.

Crimsoness posted...

People seriously trying to argue in Bin Laden's favor ITT lol

No, it's people listening to what the enemy is saying so that they can understand their motives. If you want to resolve conflicts, then you listen. If you want to stick your head into the ground and plug your ears, then that's fine too, if you love continuing conflicts with no possible resolution other than to completely kill every last one of your enemies (making more in the process). I can see why the latter approach is popular with warmongers and profiteers.

1337toothbrush posted...

No, it's people listening to what the enemy is saying so that they can understand their motives. If you want to resolve conflicts, then you listen. If you want to stick your head into the ground and plug your ears, then that's fine too, if you love continuing conflicts with no possible resolution other than to completely kill every last one of your enemies (making more in the process). I can see why the latter approach is popular with warmongers and profiteers.

Yeah motivations like "revenge" and "to establish Islamic shariah"

Tyranthraxus posted...

Yeah motivations like "revenge" and "to establish Islamic shariah"

Revenge for what?

I vividly remember crying in front of the TV watching MSNBC that morning. Now people who weren't even born at the time are saying "I mean, he DID have a point.". Jesus fuck man.

1337toothbrush posted...

Revenge for what?

Did you read the letter or not?

Tyranthraxus posted...

Did you read the letter or not?

Did you? I want you to say it.

I don't know, it's pretty easy to say the US is shit without quoting fucking Bin Laden.

Doe posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/2/26226a20.jpg

This made me laugh way harder than it should

1337toothbrush posted...

Did you? I want you to say it.

I did. That's how I knew revenge was one of the motives. I'm just curious why you're asking me questions that are answered by the letter.

Tyranthraxus posted...

I did. That's how I knew revenge was one of the motives. I'm just curious why you're asking me questions that are answered by the letter.

Tyranthraxus posted...

The letter was a justification for the 9/11 attacks so what justifications for killing like 4000 people did he write that weren't complete drivel?

I don't know why you're feigning ignorance on this. After all, the Iraq war was seen as justified revenge for 9/11. Should we just write off all the American people as bloodthirsty bad guys and thus safely ignore everything they say?

Lmao I knew some dumbass CEmen would be in here being like hmmm. Have you read some of the points he made tho..?

And this entire thread proves to me why abortion rights will never be codified. We can never have real conversations about anything. All of you want to bury your heads in the sand and make fun of people who would love for you to open your eyes and realize that he does in fact have points in that letter and they are not just regurgitations. His beefs are legitimate but I guess if you buy into the myth of American exceptionalism and righteousness and imperialism then it makes sense.

1337toothbrush posted...

I don't know why you're feigning ignorance on this. After all, the Iraq war was seen as justified revenge for 9/11. Should we just write off all the American people as bloodthirsty bad guys and thus safely ignore everything they say?

Ok so thanks for admitting you feel Osama bin Laden's massacre of thousands of people was justified. I believe there's no where else to go in this discussion.

And for the record, no, nothing USA did in Iraq was justified either.

ejolson posted...

And this entire thread proves to me why abortion rights will never be codified. We can never have real conversations about anything. All of you want to bury your heads in the sand and make fun of people who would love for you to open your eyes and realize that he does in fact have points in that letter and they are not just regurgitations. His beefs are legitimate but I guess if you buy into the myth of American exceptionalism and righteousness and imperialism then it makes sense.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/7e938fd4.jpg

AnsestralRecall posted...

no, banning it would be an awful decision. it is the only major social media platform that doesn't serve US capital interests. it has been wonderful in engaging younger generations with social movements and without a (mostly) open and free platform for that we risk a stifling of that.

Wasn't Twitter like that before Elon?

ejolson posted...

And this entire thread proves to me why abortion rights will never be codified. We can never have real conversations about anything. All of you want to bury your heads in the sand and make fun of people who would love for you to open your eyes and realize that he does in fact have points in that letter and they are not just regurgitations. His beefs are legitimate but I guess if you buy into the myth of American exceptionalism and righteousness and imperialism then it makes sense.

I wonder what Osama would think about codifying abortion rights?

Tyranthraxus posted...

Ok so thanks for admitting you feel Osama bin Laden's massacre of thousands of people was justified. I believe there's no where else to go in this discussion.

And for the record, no, nothing USA did in Iraq was justified either

It was, in his perspective (OBL) justified, for the reasons proffered in his letter. How is that so hard for you to comprehend. Was our entry into WW2 justified by the intelligence failure that led to Pearl Harbor? You are right Iraq was not justified because it wasn't even Iraqis that hit the towers.

Itachi157 posted...

I wonder what Osama would think about codifying abortion rights?

I don't care, I am not and have not defended him. I am however, trying to argue that he was justified in his own eyes for legitimate reasons that could be argued successfully when taking in the history of our country.

ejolson posted...

I don't care, I am not and have not defended him.

lol

Close this topic if all you guys gonna do is flame and bicker

Haven't read this letter in like a decade but I distinctly remember Bin Laden blaming America for promoting homosexuality and naming Bill Clinton's blowjob as one of the greatest shames committed by an American president ever. Like, I used to cite that ridiculous letter as an example of "No, they really do hate you because of your culture" when people would say "Do you really think the terrorists hate us just because they hate freedom?" (ISIS later wrote an essay saying the same thing, "We hate you for who you are").

ejolson posted...

It was, in his perspective (OBL) justified, for the reasons proffered in his letter. How is that so hard for you to comprehend. Was our entry into WW2 justified by the intelligence failure that led to Pearl Harbor? You are right Iraq was not justified because it wasn't even Iraqis that hit the towers.

I assumed this was about desert storm. It would be pretty fucking weird even for OBL to justify an attack because of something that hadn't even happened yet. And yes in his mind it was justified. YOU however are the one that said it was "succinct and true." The justifications of a madman are not, or rather should not be in any way illuminating. You may as well go try to find the "pretty good points" Charles Manson had for murdering Sharon Tate.