Current Events > NBA is unwatchable

(+) Yeah! (+)

I just want more players like Shaq. Dominant inside game, bullying in the paint, that sort of thing.

Wemby won't play that way I know, but he can potentially bring some of that back.

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

I just want more players like Shaq. Dominant inside game, bullying in the paint, that sort of thing.

Literally the 3 best players currently in the NBA dominates in the paint

Jokic
Giannis
Embiid

VeggetaX posted...

Casuals are hilarious. They don't want calls on fouls but they want calls on traveling.

What are you talking about? Fouls per game have gone down steadily through the decades, so foul calls aren't the only reason offense is up. This is from Statmuse.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/56b215cb.png

VeggetaX posted...

Literally the 3 best players currently in the NBA dominates in the paint

Jokic
Giannis
Embiid

Giannis is definitely in that sort of mold for sure. I've never really felt Embiid having that sort of game but I'd need to pay more attention to him.

Doesn't Jokic just kinda post up and then step back?

Maybe I just need to watch them more often.

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

I just want more players like Shaq. Dominant inside game, bullying in the paint, that sort of thing.

This right here.

Kamen_Rider_Blade posted...

Get rid of Corner 3's.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/d/dfa72dc7.jpg
Fix the freaking 3-Point line on both sides and turn those Corner 3's into Corner 2's as they should be based on distance.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/b/b3a59be4.jpg
Fix that corner!
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/662da077.jpg
Allow 4 Point line to finally exist.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/83fba964.jpg
30 ft radius for 4-point line.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/0/0d547904.jpg
Also, allow Offensive Goal Tending to counter the long-range game.

I always thought half court shots should be 4 pts, so I can get behind a 4 pt line of some sort. But the offensive goal tending idea would break the game.

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

Doesn't Jokic just kinda post up and then step back?

He doesn't take it to the rack hard like Shaq or Giannis but the man gets in there and no one can stop him.

berlyman101 posted...

What are you talking about? Fouls per game have gone down steadily through the decades, so foul calls aren't the only reason offense is up. This is from Statmuse.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/56b215cb.png

You're posting this to the wrong person. @pauIie

Yo_D_oY posted...

I always thought half court shots should be 4 pts, so I can get behind a 4 pt line of some sort. But the offensive goal tending idea would break the game.

Not if you limit Goal Tending to happen outside the RAA (Restricted Area Arc).
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/0/0fe51927.png
That 4' Radius starting from the center point of the rim is the RAA (Restricted Area Arc).

So all goal tending must occur outside that arc.
More Specifically:

• Players Feet must start and end outside that zone.
• Players could jump and fly over the RAA and swing their hands into the zone to deflect the ball.
• But Players can't walk into the RAA and deflect, that would be considered a Defensive Foul and you could award the other team a Free Throw while adding a Defensive Foul to your player who commits the act.
• Any Deflecting of the ball can occur around the rim as long as they don't penetrate the imaginary plane inside the rim. So if you have somebody who can jump high enough to swat the ball, they can do so as long as they don't penetrate the imaginary plane of the rim. They're perfectly allowed to swat/deflect above or bellow the rim, but never penetrate.

Offensive Goal Tending is allowed in international Basketball leagues that aren't the NBA.
So it would bring the NBA in-line with other BasketBall leagues.
Limiting the area that you can Goal Tend would balance Offense / Defense and provide a reasonable defense against the modern long range game.

I don't watch much NBA because teams aren't really able to play defense. Everything is a personal or flagrant foul

B18Champ posted...

I don't watch much NBA because teams aren't really able to play defense. Everything is a personal or flagrant foul

That really needs to be lightened up on IMO.

Anything short of deliberate Martial Arts or MMA or Pro Wrestling forms of Striking / Grappling / Holds / Locks / Throws of any sort should be allowed.

A little slap to the wrist never hurt any player IMO.

Baseball made rule changes that greatly enhanced the viewing experience. No one cared foe statnerds and players adjusting their batting gloves for 30 minutes dead time.

NBA needs to make some changes as well. This 3 point chuck fest just ain't it.

The most fun NBA players to watch these days are all European. Luka, Giannis, Jokic, Wembanyama... what happened to the American boys

DoctorPiranha3 posted...

Baseball made rule changes that greatly enhanced the viewing experience. No one cared foe statnerds and players adjusting their batting gloves for 30 minutes dead time.

NBA needs to make some changes as well. This 3 point chuck fest just ain't it.

The most fun NBA players to watch these days are all European. Luka, Giannis, Jokic, Wembanyama... what happened to the American boys

i liked some up and coming american players but for one reason or another they don't play. like ja and zion. i like ant edwards but he seems super hit or miss sometimes (only watched his playoff games).

i've heard something about fundamentals being more of a big deal in europe. i remember in the 2022 finals, celtics couldn't dribble. they'd have the ball and just straight up lose control of it. i remember growing up kids used to love having good handles. maybe that's not a thing anymore.

pauIie posted...

i liked some up and coming american players but for one reason or another they don't play. like ja and zion. i like ant edwards but he seems super hit or miss sometimes (only watched his playoff games).

i've heard something about fundamentals being more of a big deal in europe. i remember in the 2022 finals, celtics couldn't dribble. they'd have the ball and just straight up lose control of it. i remember growing up kids used to love having good handles. maybe that's not a thing anymore.

I feel that "good handles" when I was a kid was defined more by how flashily you could break a defender than how effectively you could do so. Nothing wrong with the razzle dazzle but taking care of the ball should always be the priority, and I saw a lot of dudes sacrifice the latter in pursuit of the former.

the rules are just inconsistently applied. playoff basketball is much better officiated than regular season basketball. in the playoffs flopping isn't rewarded so blatantly and players have to actually play solid fundamental basketball. it's one of the reasons harden is arguably the biggest playoff choker of all time, because he has always relied on flopping to get points and the playoffs are officiated much better and it eliminates most of that.

DoctorPiranha3 posted...

NBA needs to make some changes as well. This 3 point chuck fest just ain't it.

Larry Bird says hi.

pauIie posted...

i liked some up and coming american players but for one reason or another they don't play. like ja and zion. i like ant edwards but he seems super hit or miss sometimes (only watched his playoff games).

i've heard something about fundamentals being more of a big deal in europe. i remember in the 2022 finals, celtics couldn't dribble. they'd have the ball and just straight up lose control of it. i remember growing up kids used to love having good handles. maybe that's not a thing anymore.

Its more than just fundamentals. Youth basketball is broken in the usa. In Europe if you are an nba prospect, you get professional training and play in a pro league from age 15/16. By the time they hit the NBA they already have a couple years of professional basketball experience. In the USA you go through highschool and college against amateurs where your talent is enough to dominate without having to work on your body or game at all.

solosnake posted...

Its more than just fundamentals. Youth basketball is broken in the usa. In Europe if you are an nba prospect, you get professional training and play in a pro league from age 15/16. In the USA you go through highschool and college against amateurs where your talent is enough to dominate without having to work on your body or game at all.

https://gleague.nba.com/

pauIie posted...

i liked some up and coming american players but for one reason or another they don't play. like ja and zion. i like ant edwards but he seems super hit or miss sometimes (only watched his playoff games).

i've heard something about fundamentals being more of a big deal in europe. i remember in the 2022 finals, celtics couldn't dribble. they'd have the ball and just straight up lose control of it. i remember growing up kids used to love having good handles. maybe that's not a thing anymore.

plenty of good fundamental american players but americans do tend to value athleticism over fundamentals at the high-school and college level. good fundamentals and lack of athleticism trumps great athleticism and no fundamentals. just look at jokic and luka, two top 5 players who lack athleticism but have great fundamentals.

plenty of great americans as well though. devin booker continues to incredibly get better every season and guys like jalen brunson go from fringe rotation players to allstar level starters

TyVulpine posted...

https://gleague.nba.com/

Its a start, but even now prospects dont play there until they are 18 years old. Thats two years behind the european prospects.

The other thing I don't LOVE right now with NBA is how the players are basically creating All-Star teams and then "loser" teams. I like the players having more autonomy, but then you get the thing where some asshat like Harden can force a trade to ONE team because he is Harden.

solosnake posted...

Its more than just fundamentals. Youth basketball is broken in the usa. In Europe if you are an nba prospect, you get professional training and play in a pro league from age 15/16. By the time they hit the NBA they already have a couple years of professional basketball experience. In the USA you go through highschool and college against amateurs where your talent is enough to dominate without having to work on your body or game at all.

college basketball is more competitive than euro pro leagues and has way more high level players. the issue is the different approach where the euros emphasize solid fundamental basketball more while many colleges emphasize athleticism over fixing someone's shot or defensive game since the top players are all one and done. the 4th and 5th year college players almost uniformly have good fundamentals, especially if they come from a top program like duke or michigan st.

the transfer portal being what it is with the top prospects all being one and done results in more guys getting drafted who aren't nba ready out of the box

Im not even close to an expert, but isnt the reason the Corner 3 distance is slightly shorter is because it trades off with the risk of being pressured OoB with less movement options vs other areas by the 3 pt line?

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

The other thing I don't LOVE right now with NBA is how the players are basically creating All-Star teams and then "loser" teams. I like the players having more autonomy, but then you get the thing where some asshat like Harden can force a trade to ONE team because he is Harden.

yeah, there is a fine line between player empowerment and breaking the league resulting in even less parity. the way the lillard situation was handled was refreshing as lillard got sent to a top contender like he wanted but he didn't get to bully the blazers into taking scraps for him from the heat

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

The other thing I don't LOVE right now with NBA is how the players are basically creating All-Star teams and then "loser" teams. I like the players having more autonomy, but then you get the thing where some asshat like Harden can force a trade to ONE team because he is Harden.

yeah i hate that too

embiid come to the kings pls

andel posted...

college basketball is more competitive than euro pro leagues

lmao, no its not even close.

This isnt the 90s anymore.

Kamen_Rider_Blade posted...

Get rid of Corner 3's.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/d/dfa72dc7.jpg
Fix the freaking 3-Point line on both sides and turn those Corner 3's into Corner 2's as they should be based on distance.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/b/b3a59be4.jpg
Fix that corner!
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/662da077.jpg
Allow 4 Point line to finally exist.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/83fba964.jpg
30 ft radius for 4-point line.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/0/0d547904.jpg
Also, allow Offensive Goal Tending to counter the long-range game.

Props to you for the math and figures.

Can't stand NBA. I find it crazy hard to get excited in an early 4-4 score knowing it's going to end 114-96 or something absurd like that.

Further, I hate when announcers lose their s*** over a big slam dunk when it literally makes zero difference if he did the dunk vs. did a lay up... and it's still a 20 point difference.

But wait, there's more! In a closer game, they foul and stop the clock every 3 seconds making a 5 minute play-clock work out to 30 minutes of actual time.

Absolutely painful to watch a sport like that.

joaquintall posted...

Can't stand NBA. I find it crazy hard to get excited in an early 4-4 score knowing it's going to end 114-96 or something absurd like that.

Further, I hate when announcers lose their s*** over a big slam dunk when it literally makes zero difference if he did the dunk vs. did a lay up... and it's still a 20 point difference.

But wait, there's more! In a closer game, they foul and stop the clock every 3 seconds making a 5 minute play-clock work out to 30 minutes of actual time.

Absolutely painful to watch a sport like that.

Same as an MLB game that ends up 9-1 or an NHL game that ends 6-0 or NFL game that ends 42-3 or NASCAR race where the winner is 5+ seconds ahead of second place. Every sport has lopsided games. That's the nature of sports.

solosnake posted...

lmao, no its not even close.

This isnt the 90s anymore.

it unquestionably is. how many nba players come from college basketball compared to euro leagues? exactly.

you were the guy saying wemby was a bust halfway through his first game, your basketball knowledge is a punchline on the nba board lol

Doesn't change the fact that college basketball's skillset is nothing compared to the NBA and that alone is a major turn off. Don't be all vocal without action. Stop watching this "crap".

College basketball is full of amateurs. There are none in the better euro leagues. In fact there are actual nba players in the better leagues. Also there are grown men.

The top talent is still mostly funneled through NCAA in the usa, but thats not an indicator of how strong the competition is. On the contrary, this allows the top prospects to coast by on their superior talent alone, at a detriment to the development of their game.

VeggetaX posted...

Doesn't change the fact that college basketball's skillset is nothing compared to the NBA and that alone is a major turn off. Don't be all vocal without action. Stop watching this "crap".

college basketball is more fun to watch than the nba and players that stay multiple years at top programs develop nba skills, it's why those players are basically always more nba ready than the raw and undeveloped one and done players.

solosnake posted...

College basketball is full of amateurs. There are none in the better euro leagues. In fact there are actual nba players in the better leagues. Also there are grown men.

The top talent is still mostly funneled through NCAA in the usa, but thats not an indicator of how strong the competition is. On the contrary, this allows the top prospects to coast by on their superior talent alone, at a detriment to the development of their game.

amatuer or pro status doesn't mean anything at all. college has way more top picks than g league or euro league since the most talented players in the world usually play in the american college basketball system.

andel posted...

college basketball is more fun to watch than the nba and players that stay multiple years at top programs develop nba skills, it's why those players are basically always more nba ready than the raw and undeveloped one and done players.

This is an imperfect means of judging this, but I was curious, so:
The one and done rule took effect starting with the 06 draft. Since then, of the 18 players to win Rookie of the Year,

• 9 were one and done in college
• 4 left after their sophomore year
• 1 left after junior year
• 2 were college seniors
• 2 played internationally

Antifar posted...

This is an imperfect means of judging this, but I was curious, so:
The one and done rule took effect starting with the 06 draft. Since then, of the 18 players to win Rookie of the Year,
* 9 were one and done in college
* 4 left after their sophomore year
* 1 left after junior year
* 2 were college seniors
* 2 played internationally

Also look at All-NBA teams. Let me know how many of them are one and done and how many were 3 or 4 year college players.

Guys who stay in college do so because they aren't good enough to go pro.

Well, what'd be more revealing is seeing the length and quality of careers for players coming out after x number of college years or years in an overseas league, but that's more than I'm gonna do.

The skill level is too high for low scoring. I don't want to make a flex post but even when I play it's difficult to play defense against someone like me because I'm 250+ with guard skills. Wemby is 7'4 or something with guard skills.

High scoring doesn't make the league unwatchable, the incessant noise does.

BoomerTheGreat posted...

The skill level is too high for low scoring. I don't want to make a flex post but even when I play it's difficult to play defense against someone like me because I'm 250+ with guard skills. Wemby is 7'4 or something with guard skills.

The fewest points scored by an NBA in the shot clock era is 49 by Chicago Bulls (April 10, 1999)
The fewest points ever scored by an NBA team is 18 by the Minnesota Lakers (November 22, 1950). Of course, this was before the shot clock era. Their opponents, Fort Wayne Pistons, scored 19 points, combining for lowest total points in a game, 37.....

NBA is in a similar position to baseball in that the game has been optimized to an extent where everyone knows how valuable 3's and drawing fouls are so it's all any team tries to do

nerds ruined sports

Basketball

berlyman101 posted...

Well, what'd be more revealing is seeing the length and quality of careers for players coming out after x number of college years or years in an overseas league, but that's more than I'm gonna do.

Well you'll see that one and dones have longer and more successful careers.

Eat this Wemby, tc!

LordFarquad1312 posted...

Eat this Wemby, tc!

Literally gave up 152 points. In regulation.

This shit has to stop

FactsKeepHurtin posted...

Well you'll see that one and dones have longer and more successful careers.

There's average vs. median. I imagine the best players are one-and-dones but they also have the most busts.

Agreed about the silly amount of scoring. I stopped watching because of that and a combination of teams realizing the regular season doesn't count. So I switched to only watching playoffs and the superior WNBA.

It's funny they're adding a commissioner's cup in season tournament to the NBA. It's been a disaster in the WNBA, players don't know or even care which games count towards that fake trophy. NBA players will care even less.

Delirious_Beard posted...

NBA is in a similar position to baseball in that the game has been optimized to an extent where everyone knows how valuable 3's and drawing fouls are so it's all any team tries to do

nerds ruined sports

But nobody tried to counter the Min/Max Stat nerds by balancing the game so that there needs to be judicious judgement used by the Coach / Players / Team on what type of point should be attempted, at & when.

That requires a little bit of game play design balancing.

That's why I'm a big proponent of the Creating Zones for Point scoring purposes, given how much easier it is the closer you are to the basket, it creates a game balancing effect where you decide if you want to make a more guaranteed point or take a risk by going further out.

The fact that nobody is trying to "Balance the Game" since Stat Nerds have come to expose the current weakness in the NBA is baffling, it's like nobody asked what "Game Designers" would do to balance out the Stat Nerds who try to Min/Max the game.

Before Stat Nerds, the concept of turning everything into a Long Range Shooting game was a odd concept, it wasn't until the stat nerds came in, that the game was changed.

It's time to change the game again, by bringing balance to the Court.

DoctorPiranha3 posted...

Literally gave up 152 points. In regulation.

This shit has to stop

So you'd rather watch teams stand around with the ball and do nothing? Yeah, no. That' s certainly not going to happen.
People pay to watch teams score points, not low-scoring, low-effort ball games. This isn't 21 on your local asphalt court.

Someone has already posted literal statistics on the scoring average based on eras that proves you are wrong and yet you guys are still sticking with the head-canon of the idea that there's no defense and no physical play in current NBA. I thought yall hated being misinformed?