Current Events > It kind of sucks how the point of life is to just work and make money.

(+) Yeah! (+)

WingsOfGood posted...

bro
game design is that way because of greed

they want to rush a game out before it is finished and don't give it a reasonable time table to complete

you used literally the worse example possible for your point

I had indie studios in mind when I said this. If you're a single indie or a 2 man team, the amount of work you need to put in to make money is even more. You can argue it's because you can't compete against the armies huge game companies cause to slave away, and sure, that's an argument. But then on the flipside, that's how so many of these games are made accessible in your lifetime.

These are all tangents though. I just don't get this modern sentiment that all people do today is work, when that's how it's always been. There's no life without hardship imo. Like even if you make decent money and have a family, you're still gonna run into a whole slew of problems all the way up to your deathbed. I think if a person accepts that and sets expectations accordingly, they'll have a more stable mood in life. Doesn't have to be some blissful happiness, but it doesn't have to be this constant seething that life is the way it is.

One of many reasons I give zero fucks. Even if I'd been born with the capacity to develop useful skills, they'd just be either ignored or exploited. As far as I'm concerned climate change can't come fast enough.

WingsOfGood posted...

that isn't the point of life

that is the point of capitalism

This

WingsOfGood posted...

think you are spreading a false narrative and strawman

How so?

wiiking96 posted...

Humans are capable of creating something better. Humans can create a society in which the basic materials needs of everyone (or at least the vast majority of people) are met.

We already have for the most part. The quality of life people like TC want though is well above that. Or what any society could realticially obtain and maintain long term.

But that doesn't stop communist/Marxist shills from saying and believing otherwise. As if we could maintain our current quality of life with everyone working less, doing less, and producing less.

Just become a bum and leech off society. Be truly free.

A_A_Battery posted...

I just don't get this modern sentiment that all people do today is work, when that's how it's always been.

Literally started with info contradicting and disproving this which triggered you to go full copium and you still saying this.

Have people always worked? Yes. But they had more way way way leisure before the invention of Capitalism. And no cooking your own food doesn't negate that. You shouldn't eat fast food all the time anyways for health reasons.

Prismsblade posted...

We already have for the most part. The quality of life people like TC want though is well above that. Or what any society could realticially obtain and maintain long term.

But that doesn't stop communist/Marxist shills from saying and believing otherwise. As if we could maintain our current quality of life with everyone working less, doing less, and producing less.

We could easily maintain our current quality of life with people either working less or receiving better pay. Wanna know how? Stop having billionaires. Stop having a tiny portion of people hoarding incomprehensible amounts of wealth while millions starve. Just get rid of the billionaires. They're almost universally terrible people anyway.

Dark_Arbron posted...

We could easily maintain our current quality of life with people either working less or receiving better pay. Wanna know how? Stop having billionaires. Stop having a tiny portion of people hoarding incomprehensible amounts of wealth while millions starve. Just get rid of the billionaires. They're almost universally terrible people anyway.

He meant the quality of life for the top %1.
He thinks he is one of them.

WingsOfGood posted...

Literally started with info contradicting and disproving this which triggered you to go full copium and you still saying this.

Have people always worked? Yes. But they had more way way way leisure before the invention of Capitalism. And no cooking your own food doesn't negate that. You shouldn't eat fast food all the time anyways for health reasons.

I mean, you keep mentioning copium when I'm not the one angry that life is the way it is, you are.

I still don't agree with your point. The general principle is the absolute same. Back in the day, you still had to put in a hell of a lot of work to maintain a lower standard of living. Today you have to put in often far far easier work to maintain a far higher standard of living.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe that back in the day the world was a better place. But it's not because of the work situation. If anything, it's that very lack of convenience that would make me hesitant to live in the past despite my belief that things were better in other, unrelated, aspects.

I also completely agree about billionaires and how their wealth being redistributed would make the world a far better place. But it should be used to help the starving masses of the world, not so that you and me have to work a little less. That would be ridiculously selfish.

Never thought I'd learn the meaning of life on gamefaqs. Huh.

A_A_Battery posted...

I still don't agree with your point. The general principle is the absolute same. Back in the day, you still had to put in a hell of a lot of work to maintain a lower standard of living. Today you have to put in often far far easier work to maintain a far higher standard of living.

Here is a better way to look at it.
What if you only had to work 6 hours a day. And you got 1/3 of the year off.

What do you think would happen? Keep in mind you talked about office jobs that are notorious with people sitting at a screen pretending to be busy.
World would end because now the norm is less hours and more off time? Yes? No? Why or why not.

A_A_Battery posted...

I also completely agree about billionaires and how their wealth being redistributed would make the world a far better place. But it should be used to help the starving masses of the world, not so that you and me have to work a little less. That would be ridiculously selfish.

If people that currently work 40+ hours a week were to instead work ~30 hours a week, society wouldn't magically get worse. Especially since there are plenty of people who are unemployed and who would like the opportunity to work good jobs.

A_A_Battery posted...

I also completely agree about billionaires and how their wealth being redistributed would make the world a far better place. But it should be used to help the starving masses of the world, not so that you and me have to work a little less. That would be ridiculously selfish.

If you worked 4 hours a day and there is enough work for 8 hours a day, what happens?

1. You are not overworked and can enjoy life
2. Another slot of 4 hours is open to someone else to work such as someone you say is poor and starving

Back to the pin example. What do corporations do?
They lay off. They reduce amount of jobs. They put people into poverty.
Did you not pay attention to the statt of the year when mass layoffs happened?
Why?
They were unnecessary.

It was to make more profit.

WingsOfGood posted...

Here is a better way to look at it.
What if you only had to work 6 hours a day. And you got 1/3 of the year off.

What do you think would happen? Keep in mind you talked about office jobs that are notorious with people sitting at a screen pretending to be busy.
World would end because now the norm is less hours and more off time? Yes? No? Why or why not.

I mean, if your argument is that the work situation of the world can be made more efficient, and so we can all afford to work less, then I agree. Sure, I don't think society will melt down if we worked 6 hours instead of 8, I'm sure many people don't even work 8 hours a day, they just go to work for 8 hours a day and do far less actual work. And yet, society has not melted down due to these folks and they may well be most people who work, period.

Alright. Sure.

But it doesn't change the fact that humanity has largely always had to work its ass off, and we're actually doing far easier work today, in general, in the countries in the context of this discussion.

FighterMcWar posted...

To be fair the number of neets I know who actually hut the gym, read, and complete all the tasks (games included) they set to do isn't that great. By that zero. Work isn't great but just like playing a game set to no dammage you start to lose interest and end up doing nothing because eventually the dopamine kick doesn't happen. Gotta have some challenge to enjoy the reward and if you are lucky you might even enjoy the challenge part as well.

If in not working I actually get depressed after awhile I guess cause I lack motivation to go out and do things. It's just play video games and drink.

Yeah I hate working too but I someday actually really enjoy my job. I can have an amazing day at work a terrible day or a utterly boring one. Those amazing days are worth it though

Sufferedphoneix posted...

If in not working I actually get depressed after awhile

I get depressed because the collective employers of my society don't want me. Playing video games and drinking is all I really have, and my "caring family" even wants to take that away from me.

A_A_Battery posted...

But it doesn't change the fact that humanity has largely always had to work its ass off, and we're actually doing far easier work today, in general, in the countries in the context of this discussion.

Let's say that is true, what is your point?
Because people 100 years ago worked 15 hour days we should have to work just the same amount of hours despite it not making sense and technology freeing us from the burden?

Your assertion that work today is easier means it is ok for employers to fire half their workforce and demand overtime for the few who remain?

Dark_Arbron posted...

I get depressed because the collective employers of my society don't want me. Playing video games and drinking is all I really have, and my "caring family" even wants to take that away from me.

I can't imagine a context where someone who drinks and plays video games all day would be valuable to the employers of any society.

I don't mean to be insulting to you, and I know full well how frustrating it is to look for a job and get employed. But a little effort tends to go a long way there. If all that time spent on video games was spent on better endeavors, you'd soon find you have a portfolio to show those employers and give them a reason to consider you. The job hunting part is very distasteful to be sure, but even if you go solo and do your own thing, you still gotta put in the work.

Dark_Arbron posted...

We could easily maintain our current quality of life with people either working less or receiving better pay. Wanna know how? Stop having billionaires. Stop having a tiny portion of people hoarding incomprehensible amounts of wealth while millions starve. Just get rid of the billionaires. They're almost universally terrible people anyway.

What are you basing this on? Our national budget and debt are in the trillions and rising to fund our welfare.

So idk what insane pool of income and prosperity you think this'll unlock but it's sounds like typical Marxist BS propaganda to me.

A_A_Battery posted...

I can't imagine a context where someone who drinks and plays video games all day would be valuable to the employers of any society.

I don't mean to be insulting to you, and I know full well how frustrating it is to look for a job and get employed. But a little effort tends to go a long way there. If all that time spent on video games was spent on better endeavors, you'd soon find you have a portfolio to show those employers and give them a reason to consider you. The job hunting part is very distasteful to be sure, but even if you go solo and do your own thing, you still gotta put in the work.

Hey I managed. Had to start at the bottom though with minimum wage BS. I worked minimum wage until I was in my mid to late 20s. Now I rent a 3 bedroom house half acre lot have a car bill so on and so forth.

So I'm agreeing with saying you have to put the work in.

reminder of this part from Bertrand Russel's essay:

In England in the early nineteenth century fifteen hours was the ordinary days work for a man; children sometimes did as much, and very commonly did twelve hours a day.

When meddlesome busy-bodies suggested that perhaps these hours were rather long, they were told that work kept adults from drink and children from mischief.

When I was a child, shortly after urban working men had acquired the vote, certain public holidays were established by law, to the great indignation of the upper classes.

I remember hearing an old Duchess say, What do the poor want with holidays? they ought to work. People nowadays are less frank, but the sentiment persists, and is the source of much economic confusion.

Why do we only work 8 hours today?

Why is it illegal for children to do work?

There are clear answers to that. If you do not know them you should really look into it.

But I should also remind you that greed has children working in secret today. Same with people always working more than 8 hours.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/03/child-labor-factories-migrant-teenagers-cheerios-nytimes-biden.html

WingsOfGood posted...

Let's say that is true, what is your point?
Because people 100 years ago worked 15 hour days we should have to work just the same amount of hours despite it not making sense and technology freeing us from the burden?

Your assertion that work today is easier means it is ok for employers to fire half their workforce and demand overtime for the few who remain?

Nah that's not okay. I'm mainly replying to the main idea this topic presents. That working is the point of life, that you need it to survive, etc. But that's almost like complaining that you gotta eat or breath, we've always had to do those things just like we've always had to work.

Technology did free us from a lot of hard, grueling work. So there is that part of it to be sure, it's not like things today are worse in terms of work, I believe they're easier. Sure, you may have to put in more hours strictly than they did in the past, but you also spend, far, far less hours doing other work you'd have had to do for basic necessities in life. Or for like travel. You get on a plane for 2 hours to make a trip that used to take 2 months.

A_A_Battery posted...

I can't imagine a context where someone who drinks and plays video games all day would be valuable to the employers of any society.

I was drinking and playing video games even when employed. It's never cost me a job.
And it's not like (not) reading my CV is going to inform the employer of my hobbies anyway.

A_A_Battery posted...

But a little effort tends to go a long way there. If all that time spent on video games was spent on better endeavors, you'd soon find you have a portfolio to show those employers and give them a reason to consider you.

You can't get experience without someone giving you a chance first though. You can't "hard work" your way around that. Furthermore the government doesn't do shit about unemployment rates because it's decided a certain amount is acceptable (since it's a feature, not a bug, of capitalism).

wiiking96 posted...

If people that currently work 40+ hours a week were to instead work ~30 hours a week, society wouldn't magically get worse. Especially since there are plenty of people who are unemployed and who would like the opportunity to work good jobs.

Well, it wouldnt "magically" get worse because it's not magic

It would get worse because there were fewer goods & services for the same number of people

A_A_Battery posted...

I'm mainly replying to the main idea this topic presents. That working is the point of life, that you need it to survive,

thing is tc isn't saying he just wants to not work

he is expressing disdain that all he CAN do is work

that is why I discussed a group of people who DID work but they had tons of leisure

A_A_Battery posted...

You get on a plane for 2 hours to make a trip that used to take 2 months.

yea this is technology and doesn't come from paying people less or making them work more

infact you would probably agree with me that ticket prices are too high and the service offered not very good?
why would that be?
if you agree this is yet another example that amazing tech that provide for solutions and increase of leisure are being abused for pure greed to some billionaire, rather than societal benefit

WingsOfGood posted...

thing is tc isn't saying he just wants to not work

he is expressing disdain that all he CAN do is work

that is why I discussed a group of people who DID work but they had tons of leisure

yea this is technology and doesn't come from paying people less or making them work more

infact you would probably agree with me that ticket prices are too high and the service offered not very good?
why would that be?
if you agree this is yet another example that amazing tech that provide for solutions and increase of leisure are being abused for pure greed to some billionaire, rather than societal benefit

Thing is I don't agree with the idea that because we work 8 hours a day, all we do is work. There are still other hours remaining and the weekends. Can it be shorter? Yes. Does it absolutely have to be 8 hours for everyone? Probably not. It still remains in line with the idea that, ultimately, we've always had to do a lot of work, most likely a lot more than we do today for various reasons (advances in technology mainly).

bsp77 posted...

That's not true. Working helps you to do the things that life is about.

CRON posted...

What is life supposed to be about? When I think of the things people do and the ways to enjoy life, almost all of them require spending money. So many hobbies are too expensive to follow.

Dude, if you're working and not getting money for it, get off GameFAQs and figure some shit out.

The point of life used to just be about staying alive long enough to reproduce. At least now you can do some fun things in-between working.

A_A_Battery posted...

Thing is I don't agree with the idea that because we work 8 hours a day, all we do is work. There are still other hours remaining and the weekends. Can it be shorter? Yes. Does it absolutely have to be 8 hours for everyone? Probably not. It still remains in line with the idea that, ultimately, we've always had to do a lot of work, most likely a lot more than we do today for various reasons (advances in technology mainly).

The study found that when people work fewer hours, they have more energy and focus, and they're less likely to make mistakes. So, if you're looking to be more productive, one of the best things you can do is work less. You'll have more energy, focus, and motivation, and you'll be less likely to make mistakes.

https://quire.io/blog/p/fewer-hours-more-productive.html

Overall, the results of the trials show that the reductions in working hours maintained or increased productivity and service provision [and] improved workers well-being and work-life balance, according to the report, Going Public: Icelands Journey to a Shorter Working Week, published in June 2021.1

https://www.waldenu.edu/programs/business
/resource/shortened-work-weeks-what-studies-show

Stanford professor: Working this many hours a week is basically pointless. Heres how to get more doneby doing less

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/20/stanford-study-longer-hours-doesnt
-make-you-more-productive-heres
-how-to-get-more-done-by-doing-less.html

and on and on
and on and on
so
many
studies

but hey people back in the day worked more or whatever so let's ignore science I guess

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


oh did we get baited?

capitalism sucks but there really isnt a better way unless we create robot slaves and make them do all our work for us.

WingsOfGood posted...

https://quire.io/blog/p/fewer-hours-more-productive.html

https://www.waldenu.edu/programs/business
/resource/shortened-work-weeks-what-studies-show

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/20/stanford-study-longer-hours-doesnt
-make-you-more-productive-heres
-how-to-get-more-done-by-doing-less.html

and on and on
and on and on
so
many
studies

but hey people back in the day worked more or whatever so let's ignore science I guess

Alright again, I agree with that. It doesn't change the fact that, in a time where we legitimately have more free time and a higher standard of living, people are complaining that they don't have even more, with the implication being that it never used to be this way. It used to be worse. And tbh, when technology brings about some great apocalypse (most likely nuclear war on a global scale), it's going to go back to being a lot worse, but this time with mutant rats in the mix.

A_A_Battery posted...

I agree with that. It doesn't change the fact that, in a time where we legitimately have more free time and a higher standard of living, people are complaining that they don't have even more,

and yet you even talked about overworked game devs a few posts back....

do you think they should not fight against being overworked with crunch time?
do you know what that means?

Dark_Arbron posted...

You can't get experience without someone giving you a chance first though.

We've all been there, and everyone hates this about employment. People still get employed, and they didn't magic experience into their histories.

WingsOfGood posted...

and yet you even talked about overworked game devs a few posts back....

do you think they should not fight against being overworked with crunch time?
do you know what that means?

I mean I'm one of those people, so I know full well. But again, if I don't do it, we sink, simple as. Hell we might sink anyway, but still, someone's gotta put the work in otherwise a bunch of work that has to get done, won't get done, and we just sink furthur when we're barely making it now.

It's just the nature of life and the game. I still absolutely think we're better off today. Hell, you know back in the day, only kings used to eat something like ice cream. Today you can find it in every corner of the planet.