Current Events > Nintendo Games' drop in quality

(+) Yeah! (+)

So when it comes to games like Animal Crossing, Switch Sports, Kirby Star Allies, Mario Tennis/Golf/Strikers- these have all been met with a negative reaction and they've all had better 3DS, Wii U, Wii, Gamecube components. This is a personal theory, but has the Switch's success made Nintendo try less hard? Like they don't need to put in as much effort because the install-base is so massive and casual, they'll buy based on name alone?

no

damn really thought I was onto something

And Kirby Forgotten Land, FE Three Houses, and Mario Odyssey, are considered some of the best in their series

Sounds to me like youve just gotten older. There are kids playing those games now who think theyre amazing, and in 15 years, those kids will be like games nowadays suck, I miss when they were good like what we had on Switch

The 3DS was the first quality drop I really noticed. It doesn't hold up as long as older systems.

I don't play Animal Crossing but seeing as how it's the second highest selling Switch game ever I figure people must be enjoying it. Now that's not a specific analysis of its "quality", but I think sales can at least be a good tangential metric.

Star Allies is not considered bad at all

Also what was wrong with Kirby Star Allies? I thought it was great.

Drop in quality is super subjective and most of what the internet does is bitch for the sake of it.

https://youtu.be/NI7As3rOogo

I cant believe how still relevant this clip even is

Animal Crossing had gripes from some fans but it was largely a massive success. Kirby Star Allies was a bit wet but the large amount of content added in updates relieved a lot of complaints, and we had The Forgotten Land anyway, so there isn't a "trend" in that series of the games being worse. Mario Tennis Aces is the best Mario Tennis game since the Gamecube, and I've seen some argue that the core gameplay is the best it's ever been.

Although, I can't disagree that the Mario sports games do feel a bit rushed out and cheap. Nintendo's release schedule in general has been bare lately. I think they were hit harder by the pandemic than most. But in the past year or so we've had Xenoblade 3, Kirby, Splatoon 3, Bowser's Fury, Fire Emblem, we're getting Tears of the Kingdom, Pikmin 4. I think the only real downgrade of quality is in the Mario sports games, and even then it's compared to the Gamecube titles. The quality in the Wii U/3DS era was a lot more inconsistent. Mario Tennis Ultra Smash and Animal Crossing Amiibo Festival anyone?

N64/GCN kiddos have this weird thing where they think everyone in the world believes their games were the best, and didn't represent a "drop in quality" among franchises to many fans.

Nintendo themselves have been at their top level with Switch. I didn't get Switch Sports but it's other counter part, Ring Fit Adventure, is far superior to Wii fit in every way.

Star Allies at launch was barebones platforming-wise and just overall poorly balanced around 4 players. The real draw was the lore it provided.

And then the free updates adding 10+ fan favorites as playable and actually difficult extra modes eventually salvaged it.

Star Allies is the most fan service Kirby game there is right now. Unadulterated love for the pink puff

rexcrk posted...

Sounds to me like youve just gotten older. There are kids playing those games now who think theyre amazing, and in 15 years, those kids will be like games nowadays suck, I miss when they were good like what we had on Switch

Not quite, I played the N64 and Gamecube Mario Sports titles with my older siblings who were late teens, early twenties- and they enjoyed them then. I don't think age has anything to do with it, a good game is fun to everyone, regardless, and that's basically Nintendo's motto. But a better way to see the evidence is to look at the Metacritic scores from said series across time. Which I will do below.

CyricZ posted...

I don't play Animal Crossing but seeing as how it's the second highest selling Switch game ever I figure people must be enjoying it. Now that's not a specific analysis of its "quality", but I think sales can at least be a good tangential metric.

I can agree. But a lot of Switch games are going to end up selling the best in their series because the install base is massive; it's Nintendo's best selling console. Pokemon S/S are also in the top 5 as well as Pokemon's 2nd best-selling and many people have been critical of those despite the revenue.

The point I wanna make is that most of this criticism (Animal Crossing, too) comes from devout series fans- as that's the only way you'd be able to notice a dip in quality. But it doesn't matter if the dip is there or not, because the console is so widespread across the "casual" market, that they'll sell on name and hype alone. Which is what Nintendo seems to be aware of, or so goes my personal theory.

Let's look at Kirby analytically since that's the example that's striking in this thread.
Star Allies on Metacritic received a 73, despite selling around 4 million. Now the two games before it.
Planet Robobot received an 81, and sold about 1.6 million.
Triple Deluxe received an 80, and sold about 2.6 million.

Do you see my point?

BUT! And this next part is important.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Nintendo does not dare mess with the series that are more in the hands of hardcore gamers and critics, as they know any drops in quality there would be easily detected and harm their industry stature.

Kirby is objectively not a good example of this because of the free DLC that eventually elevated the game to great, if not top tier status.

At best you could say it was rushed, but it *was* an anniversary celebration, so thats not indicative of less effort or cheaper quality

blackrider76 posted...

Kirby is objectively not a good example of this because of the free DLC that eventually elevated the game to great, if not top tier status.

At best you could say it was rushed, but it *was* an anniversary celebration, so thats not indicative of less effort or cheaper quality

Every game I listed had free updates which helped to fix downward public reaction. All of them are significantly better now than when they launched, but the response to free updates as a strategy is just as negative.

Star Allies wasn't even "bad" when it came out

The hardcore fans liked it aplenty

ponyseizures posted...

the response to free updates as a strategy

Sorry the game wasnt as good as it shouldve been at launch, well patch it up for free isnt a strategy to curb public reaction.

Its how we get comeback stories like No Mans Sky.

I'd say yes, all the games you listed disappointed me compared to previous entries. Shame because you'd think that with the extra money they make from the system they'd be able to afford to polish their games further. Or at least support them longer after launch.

switch has been the best nintendo console of alltime and has a phenomenal library

blackrider76 posted...

Sorry the game wasnt as good as it shouldve been at launch, well patch it up for free isnt a strategy to curb public reaction.

Its how we get comeback stories like No Mans Sky.

It's not a strategy to curb public reaction at all, but it is a strategy to release a game far before it's ready. I'll give it to Kirby that the free updates for Star Allies were likely an unanticipated afterthought and most similar to the sentiment you posted. But other times, the free update is deliberate. Every Animal Crossing game had Redd before New Horizons, you're telling me they were planning New Horizons without it and were shocked at the reaction of "Where is he?" "Sorry, we've added him back in a free update 2 months after launch!"

I'm not sure its fair to say Nintendo games are declined in quality. Its more like stagnated.

If we're talking about sports titles specifically I would agree, but that's been ongoing since the peak of the Gamecube/GBA era.

Jabodie posted...

e talking about sports titles specifically I would agree, but

Wii Sports didn't exist until after that, but from a Mario Sports perspective: Mario Golf World Tour is the one exception.

My final bump 2 u

...Animal Crossing, the game that single-handedly got a lot of people through the pandemic, was received negatively?

PiOverlord posted...

N64/GCN kiddos have this weird thing where they think everyone in the world believes their games were the best, and didn't represent a "drop in quality" among franchises to many fans.

I still feel this way about OOT and FF7.

I did not like those games. I wouldn't go as far as to say their bad games because they're not but I greatly preferred LttP/LA and FF6

Animal Crossing is one of Nintendo's series that I think gets better with every single release. I just disliked the slow drip of content of features it did this time. (How do you launch an island based Animal Crossing and not have swimming???)

But overall, even at launch, it had more going for it that previous titles did and has only improved with the updates.

Tyranthraxus posted...

I still feel this way about OOT and FF7.

I did not like those games. I wouldn't go as far as to say their bad games because they're not but I greatly preferred LttP/LA and FF6

That's how it works. Games from your childhood are the games that you like the best, and things afterwards are overrated/not as good.

ellis123 posted...

That's how it works. Games from your childhood are the games that you like the best, and things afterwards are overrated/not as good.

That's not true as a general statement. BotW is my favorite but even if it didn't exist I'd still like ALBW better than LttP.

As for Final Fantasy, overall I think 9 is probably the best. The problem seems to be that early new Gen shit is worse than later last Gen shit.

It's not drop in quality, its increase in prices and keeping them increased. Nintendo has a habit of being really dumb when it comes to selling product that is 5 years old. Instead of BOTW being sold at a reasonable 3/4 of its original price, they still have it at full price 5 years later. Even before the announcement of TOTK.

Nintendi has always made better games when their consoles sell poorly.

BOTW is often 40 bucks

Blue_Inigo posted...

BOTW is often 40 bucks

AAA games not made by Nintendo drop to 20 on sale within a year.

Blue_Inigo posted...

BOTW is often 40 bucks

In retail stores, and that's not Nintendo dropping the price, that's the retail stores trying to move extra inventory in favor of newer inventory. Nintendos online store always has Breath of the Wild at full price, which in Canada is 79.99 plus taxes, aka close to 95 dollars after tax.

Ivany2008 posted...

In retail stores, and that's not Nintendo dropping the price, that's the retail stores trying to move extra inventory in favor of newer inventory. Nintendos online store always has Breath of the Wild at full price, which in Canada is 79.99 plus taxes, aka close to 95 dollars after tax.

A sale is a sale though seems like people want to ignore the fact that sales do happen.

Coming off what I wrote earlier because I don't want to repeat myself but I also don't expect you to read the entire topic:

TMOG posted...

...Animal Crossing, the game that single-handedly got a lot of people through the pandemic, was received negatively?

From a public audience perspective, it was received positively. But fans of the series could instantly recognize the drop in quality that it was. And there are countless posts/videos/threads on it.

Garioshi posted...

Nintendi has always made better games when their consoles sell poorly.

I completely agree and that's my point with this topic. This is one of the reasons the Gamecube is buried in praise. They were losing 6th gen and software development was the only tool they had to better themselves. With big sellers like with the Switch and the Wii, they don't have to try nearly as hard.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Abridged, I anticipated this comment:
Forgotten Land was in response to Star Allies. They went over the top on the 2nd try because Star Allies made it abundantly clear how stale 2D Kirby was getting; it wasn't enough for people.

If my argument in this thread is that games implemented for a casual market have decreased in effort on Switch due to Nintendo realizing how easy it is to sell them regardless, then you might say Forgotten Land is the evolution of Kirby from casual to hardcore- AKA series that are peaking on Switch (zelda, metroid, FE)

Kloe_Rinz posted...

no

ponyseizures posted...

damn really thought I was onto something

wow @kloe_rinz you just saved nintendo

Baha05 posted...

A sale is a sale though seems like people want to ignore the fact that sales do happen.

I'm specifically talking Nintendo, not 3rd party. Any sales that happen at a retail store are based on that retail store. When Nintendo was clearing their E-Shop of Wii-U and 3DS games, they had practically zero sales on their first party content. I'm talking games that are 10+ years old. Meanwhile, you look at Borderlands 2 which right now costs 16 USD, roughly a 3rd of launch price.

I don't ignore sales happening. 3rd party games go on sale all the time on the E-Shop. But, that said, I wanted to play Super Mario Odyssey and buy it off the E-Shop I'm spending 79.99 CAD plus tax, whereas a local shop might have it for 50. I just don't have the room for physical games anymore.

ponyseizures posted...

Coming off what I wrote earlier because I don't want to repeat myself but I also don't expect you to read the entire topic:

From a public audience perspective, it was received positively. But fans of the series could instantly recognize the drop in quality that it was. And there are countless posts/videos/threads on it.

I completely agree and that's my point with this topic. This is one of the reasons the Gamecube is buried in praise. They were losing 6th gen and software development was the only tool they had to better themselves. With big sellers like with the Switch and the Wii, they don't have to try nearly as hard.

Abridged, I anticipated this comment:
Forgotten Land was in response to Star Allies. They went over the top on the 2nd try because Star Allies made it abundantly clear how stale 2D Kirby was getting; it wasn't enough for people.

If my argument in this thread is that games implemented for a casual market have decreased in effort on Switch due to Nintendo realizing how easy it is to sell them regardless, then you might say Forgotten Land is the evolution of Kirby from casual to hardcore- AKA series that are peaking on Switch (zelda, metroid, FE)

Well, Star Allies was still the best selling Kirby besides the 1st game even despite its relatively lesser reception so if they really were lazy and just cared about sales they could've made it more of the same *cough* Pokemon but they went above and beyond.

You can't just pick out specifically the worst games and just ignore all the good ones.

The 3DS had Triple Deluxe which sucked, but then it followed up with Robobot, which is still the best 2d Kirby. They started with Star Allies, which was mid, then it followed up with Forgotten Land, one of the best Kirbies. So it's not exactly a consistent series, and its purpose is to fill release early in the console's life and then release a good game once they bought some time

The thing is, Nintendo is still one of the most profitable game only company. They're unique because they did it without a reliance on COD or the yearly sports games. They make their own sports games instead, which all do really well in sales and don't cost like AAA titles which sell either equal or less copies compared to the lower efforts.

If you ask them to simply not release the fillers or the lower effort stuff, you might as well tell them to just not be profitable. Like why? How does it help you?

legendarylemur posted...

The 3DS had Triple Deluxe which sucked

I resent that.

I'm someone that plays a lot of sports games, bought my first round of Mario golf, tennis, and strikers and find them all very lacking. Strikers especially.

MabusIncarnate posted...

I'm someone that plays a lot of sports games, bought my first round of Mario golf, tennis, and strikers and find them all very lacking. Strikers especially.

Unfortunately, Mario Tennis got hampered by Smash. I'm telling you man, I never felt more intense games, than playing Tennis Aces when it launched.

The campaign was kinda fun, but there's only so much you'll get out of a sports campaign that is structured like Mario Tennis, and not a "season mode" like traditional sports games.

I don't agree that the quality has decreased, but Nintendo has embraced the system of releasing games with free updates. Not necessarily bad, but the games feel incomplete at launch as a result.