Current Events > Court debate over definition of lesbian adjourned for a month due to crying.

(+) Yeah! (+)

A co-founder of LGB Alliance was reduced to tears during cross-examination on the definition of the word lesbian on Thursday, prompting the court to adjourn, during a legal challenge to the Charity Commissions decision to award charitable status to the organisation.

The meaning of the word lesbian has been analysed on several occasions during five days of court hearings triggered by a challenge brought by the childrens trans rights charity Mermaids.

Kate Harris, a co-founder of LGB Alliance, was invited by Michael Gibbon KC, counsel for Mermaids, to reflect on whether some people would have a different understanding of lesbian from the definition given by her organisation.

That a lesbian can be a man with a penis? she asked.

Gibbon responded: Putting it in a more neutral way, that lesbians can include someone who is a woman as a result of gender reassignment.

Harris, who is a lesbian, was distressed by the exchange, and the judge called for a short adjournment. Gibbon later apologised if he had raised something inadvertently upsetting. Harris said: Im going to speak for millions of lesbians around the world who are lesbians because we love other women We will not be erased and we will not have any man with a penis tell us hes a lesbian because he feels he is.

She added: A lesbian is attracted to another biological woman, full stop.

Mermaids argues that LGB Alliance was created as an anti-trans organisation, set up to undermine the work of Mermaids and other charities such as Stonewall which advocate for trans rights. It questions whether LGB Alliance meets the legal threshold for charitable status, which requires its purpose to be exclusively charitable for the public benefit.
LGB Alliance contests that it is promoting the rights of lesbian, gay and bisexual people, based on its position that there are only two sexes and that gender is a social construct, and rejecting the decision of most LGBTQ+ organisations to move towards a more interchangeable use of the words sex and gender.

Harris said her organisation was created to protect children from a dangerous and confusing gender-identity ideology.

Mermaids counsel questioned Harris and LGB Alliances chair of trustees, Eileen Gallagher, on the combative and confrontational language used by the charity in tweets and campaigning literature, including accusing Mermaids of child abuse and of spreading lies.

He said Mermaids took the safeguarding of children very seriously and questioned whether it was LGB Alliances place to criticise the national lottery and Starbucks for choosing to fund Mermaids.

Gibbon asked Gallagher about the balance between political lobbying and its charitable work, asking for details of its commissioned research and plans to launch a helpline.

Harris rejected the suggestion that the charity had an anti-trans agenda. People like us and JK Rowling and thousands of others have been called anti-trans for the simple reason that we say biology is real and that there are two sexes, she said. She added that the use of terms like anti-trans and transphobic were lazy shorthand used to avoid dialogue.
The hearing, which was due to end on Friday, has been adjourned until November.

Full Article:shorturl.at/acrsX

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5 days.... How the fuck do you argue about this in court for 5 days straight.... and STILL not reach a conclusion? O_o

I feel like CE could do it in 5 minutes.

How would you define "Lesbian" CE?

UnfairRepresent posted...

LGB Alliance

How to tell that this will be about TERF bullshit in one simple step

UnholyMudcrab posted...

How to tell that this will be about TERF bullshit in one simple step

What does terf mean?

UnholyMudcrab posted...

How to tell that this will be about TERF bullshit in one simple step

I mean the fact their entire organization seems to be about attacking trans groups and arguing that saying transgenders don't exist isn't transphobic....

Yeah to me this comes across as "It goes against my religion! Think of the children!" but instead it's "I'm gay! Think of the children!"

Niether of which are stellar arguments to justify being dicks to transgenders.

Onimusha posted...

What does terf mean?

Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist.

lol who would have guessed

UnholyMudcrab posted...

How to tell that this will be about TERF bullshit in one simple step

Oh yeah, she's a full on TERF. Even mentions JK Rowling.

Harris rejected the suggestion that the charity had an anti-trans agenda. People like us and JK Rowling and thousands of others have been called anti-trans for the simple reason that we say biology is real and that there are two sexes, she said.

Believe it or not, this is a huge issue.

My ex (a transgender woman) once got into a literal screaming match with a woman (a lesbian) over the term. My ex was a dumbass and was trying to argue that she was a " bisexual lesbian" because she preferred women but was attracted to men. The other woman was pretty adamant that lesbian meant women (cis and trans) only attracted to women (cis and trans).

They both had points. My ex did try to make the point that her "lesbian" included non-binary people (which is its own issue). The other woman also made the excellent point that creepy dudes have historically used the argument of, "Oh, you're a lesbian? Me too!" or just trying to convince lesbians that they haven't tried the "right man." They were both too busy yelling at each other to actually listen to what they were saying.

I don't know how I'd define lesbian and I don't think it's my place to seeing as I'm not a woman. I didn't get involved with that argument because, honestly, both people annoyed the shit out of me. My ex was in her "treating me like garbage" phase and the other woman was, to put it bluntly, a condescending bitch (for other reasons). My ex bawled her eyes out after the screaming match that ended their friendship and all I could really think was, "Oh thank god I don't have to pretend to be nice to that vile harpy anymore."

A lesbian is a woman that is attracted to other women. Thats all there is to it.

*Sigh*

This kinda bullshit always makes me wonder just how much more progress the LGBT community would make if there wasn't so much of this disgusting bias against one another.

UnholyMudcrab posted...

How to tell that this will be about TERF bullshit in one simple step

that was my first thought too

Lesbian is an easily defined word. What they are clearly doing in this court thing is arguing about the definition of "woman".

They just dont have the guts to come out and admit it.

Senta posted...

Lesbian is an easily defined word. What they are clearly doing in this court thing is arguing about the definition of "woman".

They just dont have the guts to come out and admit it.

No, they pretty much do. They go all out in that saying that "they and JK Rowling are assumed to be anti trans because of the biological reality of there only being two sexes" or whatever BS. They may, if not are admitting it at that point.