Current Events > Millenials unwilling to do unpaid work due to social media

(+) Yeah! (+)

foreverzero212 posted...

I did 60 hours unpaid a week.

There are not enough hours in the day that realistically wouldn't overlap into conflicts to work full-time, go to school full-time, and have a 40 hour unpaid internship. So your story wouldn't add up.

? Does the weekend not exist? Worked the majority of my paid hours over the weekend, so that I only needed to take one or two shifts during the week to hit federal full-time, so that my social services case would remain active.

Idk why you are trying so hard to invalidate my experience. When confronted with a situation that you hadn't thought of that unpaid work might help with, the correct response is "oh, I hadn't thought of that", not "u lyin'".

Remember Zombiepelican?
Remember when he defended the fact that his employers paid him in food, and deluded him with the belief that he has to earn being paid with money after a certain amount of years, which he also proudly defended?

Good times lol

No one should do anything they aren't compensated for and anyone who asks them to should be fined or arrested

wackyteen posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/7/8/AAPw6aAADW9e.jpg

Due to social media inflating our sense of self importance.

I wonder what kind of world these people live that they think people can just work for free and still have food in their bellies and a roof over their head?

Millenials definitely have an inflated sense of self worth.

No further discussion necssary. Full stop.

Is Muffin Break an actual muffin shop? Why would anyone want to do unpaid work for them?

Oh no, we realized that working for free isn't worth a damn thing. Our parents got PLAYED by society and we aren't having it.
Krojen posted...

Why do boomers think they are entitled to free labor

They are entitled to EVERYTHING. They need to go -_-

HornyLevel posted...

Unpaid internships are a fucking scam.

It's a form of class oppression, for that matter. Rich kids doing unpaid work for some company? They don't have to worry about bills or rent or whatever so they can do that just fine since mommy and daddy handle that for them. But a working class student who just graduated from university? Even if they live at home, it costs money to commute or drive and they can't pay bills or student loans working for free for years to get enough experience to earn a shining reference for a full time position at some other company. And it's also why you don't see many working class people risking money by working at a tech startup, because they can't go earning nothing just to risk never getting paid back or fired and losing on their right to claim payment later on should a company succeed.

divot1338 posted...

Millenials definitely have an inflated sense of self worth.

No further discussion necssary. Full stop.

You say this like it's a bad thing. Also not limited to "millennials" in my personal experience

Shit, look how millions of people think they're so important that they can spread disease just because they don't want to get a vaccine.

And people said social media was bad

hockeybub89 posted...

You say this like it's a bad thing. Also not limited to "millennials" in my personal experience

Shit, look how millions of people think they're so important that they can spread disease just because they don't want to get a vaccine.

I would have said inaccurate sense of self worth but that would be painting with too broad a brush.

Allright, let me reiterate.

Why is it they could get college and a house with a part time job, and we can't with 3?

Social media wasnt a mistake?

COVxy posted...

? Does the weekend not exist? Worked the majority of my paid hours over the weekend, so that I only needed to take one or two shifts during the week to hit federal full-time, so that my social services case would remain active.

Idk why you are trying so hard to invalidate my experience. When confronted with a situation that you hadn't thought of that unpaid work might help with, the correct response is "oh, I hadn't thought of that", not "u lyin'".

So you managed to work 2, 12 hours shifts on the weekend. Went to school full time attending classes to be some sort of scientist where you had to write countless papers and study incredible amounts while also working 50 (40 unpaid) hours during the week. You should understand the skepticism.

Let's grant your bootstrap fever dream is true. This situation is too niche to consider and the moral of this working every waking hour story wouldn't be a reflexive defense of unpaid internships as some great value in the richest country in the world.

foreverzero212 posted...

So you managed to work 2, 12 hours shifts on the weekend. Went to school full time attending classes to be some sort of scientist where you had to write countless papers and study incredible amounts while also working 50 (40 unpaid) hours during the week. You should understand the skepticism.

Let's grant your bootstrap fever dream is true. This situation is too niche to consider and the moral of this working every waking hour story wouldn't be a reflexive defense of unpaid internships as some great value in the richest country in the world.

You're the one who brought time and effort into the equation, that's not even related to my point to begin with! You made a snide remark about my privilege (presumably because part of my point had to do with privilege) to avoid discussing the point I made.

You may want to go back and read my posts again.

I dunno I think the guy expecting people to work for him for free has the inflated sense of self-importance.

Who the hell would think working for free would be a good idea? Unpaid internships are taking advantage of people. A lot of people can't afford that.

TerraSeeker posted...

Who the hell would think working for free would be a good idea? Unpaid internships are taking advantage of people. A lot of people can't afford that.

It keeps the lower class in their place, mostly.

COVxy posted...

You're the one who brought time and effort into the equation, that's not even related to my point to begin with! You made a snide remark about my privilege (presumably because part of my point had to do with privilege) to avoid discussing the point I made.

You may want to go back and read my posts again.

The ability to work full time for free requires a lot of privilege. Nothing snide about it and it isn't a new idea created in response to you.
https://philanthropynewsdigest.org/features/commentary-and-opinion/ending-the-pipeline-of-privilege-why-unpaid-internships-perpetuate-inequities

Encountering an employer, a University schedule, and an internship that can fit 3 full time job schedules together like legos is lottery ticket levels of luck. Never mind the many that have to dedicate time to provide or care more for others than themselves.

We know it worked out for you, great. We can have better solutions than survivorship bias defending this "opportunity."

I know, it's crazy to expect money when breathing is almost taxable these days.

The fact is that you can't even engage with the idea that if the restriction of internships to paid positions affects the supply of internships the situation becomes more fucked for poor people.

Because you don't want to think any more than what fits your schema for what's "right" and your own personal experience.

The old adage of 'it is easier to replace than to keep' still burns hot.

Unpaid internships are just introductory classes to nepotism.

"Journalist" on Twitter having a hot take on millenials ruining the world? Must be a day of the week ending on y.
https://i.imgur.com/gZwHEjd.jpg

"Poor people should feel lucky that unpaid labor exists" is a more of statement against American society than in favor of unpaid internships.

COVxy posted...

The fact is that you can't even engage with the idea that if the restriction of internships to paid positions affects the supply of internships the situation becomes more fucked for poor people.

Because you don't want to think any more than what fits your schema for what's "right" and your own personal experience.

The fact that you can't even engage with the data and literature showing unpaid internships reinforce the racial/wealth gaps because your personal experience made you intuitively come to the wrong conclusion...

Boomers still think millenials are young. Just like young people misuse boomer, old people misuse millenial. I think I read the youngest millenials are like 30 now

foreverzero212 posted...

The fact that you can't even engage with the data and literature showing unpaid internships reinforce the racial/wealth gaps because your personal experience made you intuitively come to the wrong conclusion...

Data? What data are you talking about?

We're pushing 30-40, we have kids of our own, why the fuck would us millennials work for free?

wackyteen posted...

Permanent job shortages without a (fair) solution to the unemployed will lead to violence.

Buckle in because the 30s and 40s are gonna be insane

Any state that wants to survive will address this before it becomes a big issue.

Those that don't probably will slide and slide until they become an outright failed state

Does this include charity work?

No one should do free labor unless it is a charity and the people volunteered.

Zikten posted...

Boomers still think millenials are young. Just like young people misuse boomer, old people misuse millenial. I think I read the youngest millenials are like 30 now

28

COVxy posted...

I wouldn't be where I am today if I hadn't had the opportunity to train under the labs I did at university.

I worked full time (paid), had a full time class schedule, and was on welfare, while working for free, but it gave me an opportunity that nobody would have wasted their money on otherwise.

How many hours in a day are there where you live? 40 hours for work, 30-40 hours for internship, and what was school, 20 hours a week?

And people say social media hasn't done anything positive.

loafy013 posted...

How many hours in a day are there where you live? 40 hours for work, 30-40 hours for internship, and what was school, 20 hours a week?

If you're actually interested in my situation and what it looked like, I can talk to you about it. But my situation is not the point of the topic. The only reason i brought it up was because the other poster was attempting to suggest that it worked out for me because i'm privileged, and that's true in some respects (lots of luck and good mentorship), but the reality is that I entered that situation with very little resources, and fought like hell until I had them. I am an example that disproves the universal "unpaid internships only help the rich".

Though that statement is silly to begin with. Unpaid positions let people take risks on people they would otherwise pass up on. Paid positions are heavily filled with people who have already had opportunities.

COVxy posted...

If you're actually interested in my situation and what it looked like, I can talk to you about it. But my situation is not the point of the topic. The only reason i brought it up was because the other poster was attempting to suggest that it worked out for me because i'm privileged, and that's true in some respects (lots of luck and good mentorship), but the reality is that I entered that situation with very little resources, and fought like hell until I had them. I am an example that disproves the universal "unpaid internships only help the rich".

Though that statement is silly to begin with. Unpaid positions let people take risks on people they would otherwise pass up on. Paid positions are heavily filled with people who have already had opportunities.

Don't get me wrong, good on you for fighting like hell to get where you wanted to be. But you have to understand, what you went through, if true, is an absolutely absurd proposition that should NEVER be expected of anyone. What you're describing comes out to, at least, a 100 hour work week (40 for full time job, 40 for unpaid work, 20 for school), not even counting extras like any out-of-class work or study that your courses would have required.

The research is in that after roughly 32 work hours a week, most people's productivity starts to decline. After 50, it absolutely plummets. By 100 hours, you are reaching into actual physical and mental breakdown territory. Good on you for fighting through it, but that is absurd.

And you also have to recognize that a system like that will ALWAYS favor the well-off. Between a rich kid who can afford to focus on the unpaid work and nothing else, and the poor kid who has to work 100 hours a week, every week, running themselves into the ground just to get by, of COURSE the rich kid is in a far more favorable position. VERY few people will be willing to torture themselves like that, and even if they do, they'll almost always be outperformed by the group that isn't so grossly tapped out on energy and resources.

COVxy posted...

Though that statement is silly to begin with. Unpaid positions let people take risks on people they would otherwise pass up on. Paid positions are heavily filled with people who have already had opportunities.

Or (as is usually the case) it allows employers to exploit free labor with promises of "experience" that may or may not translate to an actual job.

It's happened plenty of times where someone did an unpaid internship for the "experience" and the experience didn't mean shit because the entry-level positions were all being taken up by people with actual paid work experience.

Technically, unpaid internships ARE illegal....if the work being done is "essential" to the running of the business. In other words, the unpaid intern should be learning, shadowing, attending career building events, etc., NOT performing work that makes the company run

Millennials have been absolutely fucked by Boomers financially. The fact that there are still some Boomers who cling to their "bootstraps" defense is just depressing.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

Don't get me wrong, good on you for fighting like hell to get where you wanted to be. But you have to understand, what you went through, if true, is an absolutely absurd proposition that should NEVER be expected of anyone. What you're describing comes out to, at least, a 100 hour work week (40 for full time job, 40 for unpaid work, 20 for school), not even counting extras like any out-of-class work or study that your courses would have required.

The research is in that after roughly 32 work hours a week, most people's productivity starts to decline. After 50, it absolutely plummets. By 100 hours, you are reaching into actual physical and mental breakdown territory. Good on you for fighting through it, but that is absurd.

And you also have to recognize that a system like that will ALWAYS favor the well-off. Between a rich kid who can afford to focus on the unpaid work and nothing else, and the poor kid who has to work 100 hours a week, every week, running themselves into the ground just to get by, of COURSE the rich kid is in a far more favorable position. VERY few people will be willing to torture themselves like that, and even if they do, they'll almost always be outperformed by the group that isn't so grossly tapped out on energy and resources.

What I'm saying is that i'd rather have the opportunity to work harder than everyone else to get where they have gotten than have no opportunity at all.

Again, I can say with definity that without unpaid research positions, I would never have been able to get into my career. And it's not without cost, of course. I'm burnt out now, at a stage in my career that most people really start pushing hard.

But i've also done more than I ever envisioned I would ever have the chance. And that's the thing. It sucks to be poor, and it sucks to have to work 10x as hard to get half as far as anyone else. But like, not having the mechanisms that let me work towars it would have been way worse. It's easy to say "shit sucks because it's not fair, we should just make it fair". Much harder to understand all the unintended impacts of making things "fair" can have on the population you are trying to help.

These are roadblocks Boomers didn't have to plow through, and they set up solely because they've created educational power creep to an extent where degrees aren't enough of a pre-requisite.

The average Boomer, adjusted for inflation, graduated with 70% less school debt, and had starting salaries with 1.7x the purchasing power. They also didn't have a huge number of elderly people on overtaxed entitlement systems.

They also didn't come of age in an era where the oldest 25% owned almost 90% of the wealth, hoarding it away for fucking second houses and cruises.

good

Internships for some things like teaching make a lot of sense, but fuck internships for a corporate setting or retail.

The_Creep_2020 posted...

Internships for some things like teaching make a lot of sense,

I don't see how an internship for teaching makes any sense at all.

Glob posted...

I don't see how an internship for teaching makes any sense at all.

I think those are like the student teachers, right? I think that makes sense

LinkPizza posted...

I think those are like the student teachers, right? I think that makes sense

I'm a teacher. No it doesn't. It's a product of criminally underfunding education.

When student teachers are teaching classes and taking on more responsibility and scrutiny than a substitute teacher, why shouldn't they be paid?

DarkRoast posted...

They also didn't come of age in an era where the oldest 25% owned almost 90% of the wealth, hoarding it away for fucking second houses and cruises.

Well no, they came of age in a time where unions still existed as a means for a working class individual to build themselves a good life. They took advantage of it, then elected their hero Reagan to destroy those unions so future generations wouldn't have that option.

It's 2022 and they're still talking about millennials like they are spoiled little 19 year olds and not 35 year olds well into their professional careers.

Fucking lol.

The internet is like the worst fear of abusers and fascists. Before, they could hide their deeds. Today, since people can see more lifestyles and opinions, they realize that theyve been lied to their whole lives.

Glob posted...

I'm a teacher. No it doesn't. It's a product of criminally underfunding education.

When student teachers are teaching classes and taking on more responsibility and scrutiny than a substitute teacher, why shouldn't they be paid?

I guess its different if they do that. Our students teachers were mostly watching. And would assist the teachers sometimes by passing something out or whatever. Ours never taught classes, though