Current Events > Did you guys see the recent minnesota cop bodycam police shooting?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I've been very clear that you bought into a very stupid conspiracy theory that was made up by very stupid people, I'm not sure why you're having so much trouble with that.

atmasabr posted...

Calling it murder is a sick joke. He was holding a gun. I'm not sure what you would have expected an officer to do differently. There's a reason the mayor's immediate reaction was to suspend no-knock warrants. Because it seems you can do everything "right" and it won't work.

I would expect a cop to not murder someone. They know the risk of a no knock warrant and thats something they should shoulder themselves without trying to kill their target.

greyfox747 posted...

I've been very clear that you bought into a very stupid conspiracy theory that was made up by very stupid people, I'm not sure why you're having so much trouble with that.

That's a yes, and I want to make sure you understand it, so can you please affirm, yes or no, what you're saying.

You are stating that the emails the New York Post obtained were fakes, and you are stating that concluding the emails were genuine is buying into a conspiracy theory.

atmasabr posted...

so can you please affirm, yes or no, what you're saying.

Are you a robot on the phone trying to get me to apply for an extended warranty on my car? You can read my posts, go ahead and do that.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

I would expect a cop to not murder someone. They know the risk of a no knock warrant and thats something they should shoulder themselves without trying to kill their target.

That's... um...

Let's apply that reasoning to serving warrants on homicide suspects the regular way, by knocking and announcing their presence before entering. By that reasoning, and please answer yes or no, you believe that the cops (and their bosses), in electing not to execute a no-knock warrant, know the risks of knocking, announcing, giving the homicide suspect time to prepare themselves by grabbing a firearm, and then when or even before they enter, being shot dead, and that that's a risk the police should shoulder themselves without trying to be killed.

atmasabr posted...

That's... um...

Let's apply that reasoning to serving warrants on homicide suspects the regular way, by knocking and announcing their presence before entering. By that reasoning, and please answer yes or no, you believe that the cops (and their bosses), in electing not to execute a no-knock warrant, know the risks of knocking, announcing, giving the homicide suspect time to prepare themselves by grabbing a firearm, and then when or even before they enter, being shot dead, and that that's a risk the police should shoulder themselves without trying to be killed.

Weird how you don't want to apply that logic to the actual real situation that just happened. Kinda seems a bit cowardly on your part.

Yes, reasonable and good people believe that police breaking into a place and shooting an innocent man for no reason at all is bad.

Most people think that cops killing innocent people is bad, I'm not sure why you're surprised by that statement too.

greyfox747 posted...

Are you a robot on the phone trying to get me to apply for an extended warranty on my car? You can read my posts, go ahead and do that.

Please answer yes or no. I want to hear you say you understand and are representing accurately what the issue in dispute is, and that you believe that there is a conspiracy theory that proffered documents are genuine.

Blightzkrieg posted...

Weird how you don't want to apply that logic to the actual real situation that just happened.

Because it's INHUMAN!

Will this call be recorded for quality purposes too? Are you about to start playing elevator music at me too?

greyfox747 posted...

You can read my posts, go ahead and do that.

atmasabr posted...

That's... um...

Let's apply that reasoning to serving warrants on homicide suspects the regular way, by knocking and announcing their presence before entering. By that reasoning, and please answer yes or no, you believe that the cops (and their bosses), in electing not to execute a no-knock warrant, know the risks of knocking, announcing, giving the homicide suspect time to prepare themselves by grabbing a firearm, and then when or even before they enter, being shot dead, and that that's a risk the police should shoulder themselves without trying to be killed.

If you support no knock raids are you cool if cops get shot or killed when they execute it on the wrong house? Kick down my door while I'm sleeping and you are gonna get fucking shot at. Guy had nine seconds to wake up, realize there were intruders and grab his gun which leaves no time for his brain to process that they were cops. Fuck these pigs.

ScazarMeltex posted...

If you support no knock raids

I don't.

atmasabr posted...

I don't.

Then shut the fuck up.

atmasabr posted...

Because it's INHUMAN!

Yes, it was inhuman for these cops to murder this completely innocent man who wasn't doing anything wrong, that is correct.

The devil has enough advocates, imo

The fuck is knock? Is there a door on your topic?

Antifar posted...

The devil has enough advocates, imo

The motherfucker doesn't even offer dental or a 401k, it's bullshit

greyfox747 posted...

Will this call be recorded for quality purposes too? Are you about to start playing elevator music at me too?

I believe I have sufficiently made my point. It's not possible to have a discussion with someone who is going to fight and fight on points that obvious points, not-critical points, that are nonetheless central to develop a shared understanding. When someone is so emotionally wedded to their first gut impression of something, they will literally make the earth flat before they concede that there are both strong and weak points in what they "believe." That is, in a nutshell, what my experience has been like doing my own research on the Politics Board.

ScazarMeltex posted...

Then shut the f*** up.

No.

Because though I don't agree with all the laws on the books, I would uphold the law. And the point I make here is that rather than accusing the police of murder for following the law, maybe one should look at the mayor's decision to suspend it as the right course of action.

Kinny100 posted...

mods, can i post the actual video?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/79884045

I dont watch those unless Donut Operator happens to cover them on YouTube.

Mistere Man posted...

they really stormed into this man's home while he was sleeping and executed him. Unforgivable.

atmasabr posted...

I believe I have sufficiently made my point.

It's not the point that you think that you're making, but you aren't wrong.

atmasabr posted...

No.

Because though I don't agree with all the laws on the books, I would uphold the law. And the point I make here is that rather than accusing the police of murder for following the law, maybe one should look at the mayor's decision to suspend it as the right course of action.

The guy they killed was also following the law also. He was asleep. His gun was legally possessed. He had every right to defend himself from people he viewed as intruders. So why then do the cops get the benefit of the doubt here and not him? He's the one that is dead.

Something to note is the Mayor says no-knock raids have been banned since November
https://twitter.com/erinreportsTV/status/1490142081704243200

Antifar posted...

Something to note is the Mayor says no-knock raids have been banned since November
https://twitter.com/erinreportsTV/status/1490142081704243200

We banned this thing in November, so because these cops did it anyway and killed a dude I'm going to super duper ban it.
Surely this will stop them.

ScazarMeltex posted...

The guy they killed was also following the law also. He was asleep. His gun was legally possessed. He had every right to defend himself from people he viewed as intruders. So why then do the cops get the benefit of the doubt here and not him?

You're right. Both parties should have the benefit of the doubt because both were following the law.

The officers should get the benefit of the doubt with respect to any consideration of murder charges against them, and as defendants of any wrongful death lawsuits.

Mr. Locke should get the benefit of the doubt with respect to any wrongful death lawsuits filed against the City of Minneapolis.

ScazarMeltex posted...

We banned this thing in November, so because these cops did it anyway and killed a dude I'm going to super duper ban it.
Surely this will stop them.

Reformist logic at work

OVERGOATED posted...

... Is this even about the shooting anymore? Jfc atma just shreds topics

It is appropriate to attack the credibility of an argument by attacking the reliability and honesty of the person making it, as a fellow poster did in attacking my argument. In turn, the person making the argument under attack defended that argument by defending his reliability and honesty and counterattacking the credibility of the attacking party's attack, by attacking their reliability and honesty.

Neutral has been reset now.

atmasabr posted...

You're right. Both parties should have the benefit of the doubt because both were following the law.

Oh, are they gonna unmurder him?

greyfox747 posted...

Oh, are they gonna unmurder him?

Like I said.

The officers should get the benefit of the doubt with respect to any consideration of murder charges against them, and as defendants of any wrongful death lawsuits.

Mr. Locke should get the benefit of the doubt with respect to any wrongful death lawsuits filed against the City of Minneapolis.

God damn this guy is legit one of the worst posters I've ever seen here

You guys are arguing with a well-known racist and bootlicker from 261.

Just ignore him, stop feeding him

atmasabr posted...

The officers should get the benefit of the doubt with respect to any consideration of murder charges against them

why

Kloe_Rinz posted...

why

Murder requires an intentional unjustified homicide. Put yourself in the officers' shoes and consider the matter from their point of view:

Like I said earlier in Post #19,

It's easy to conclude that in the situation the officers encountered, a man with a gun, indeed, sleeping with a gun, that the shooting was justified. Remember, this was a homicide investigation.

Or as I state it in Post #11 with more brevity,

He was holding a gun. I'm not sure what you would have expected an officer to do differently.

Though I concede that information is not enough to conclude the shooting was justified, as I explain further on, we are here talking about a different subject: murder.

An important set of facts to point out, as I did in Post 28, is that

the police were executing a no-knock raid. They then announced themselves as they were entering the apartment
...
The police department's official statement is that the man had aimed the gun "in the direction of the officers."

As I have stated in Post 28, I make the following judgment call about the police department official's statement

I think that the police department's statement that Mr. Locke had aimed the gun in the direction of the officers is almost certainly true, and for the reasons stated by other posters in this topic and outlined by the gun rights group quoted [in an article I linked to in Post 6]. It is highly probable that Mr. Locke did not know he was surrounded by police and being ordered to put himself under arrest, which means he more likely than not emerged holding the gun either as a threat or intending to immediately use it. Okay I don't know they were surrounding the couch, I'm just assuming it. My gut impression is that there was at least 50% chance there were one or more officers in the direction of where the gun was pointed, more when I read the police department's official statement.

[brackets mine]
[I regret referring to the article thereafter as a CNN article. It was an article from the Independent via Yahoo News]

DarthAragorn posted...

God damn this guy is legit one of the worst posters I've ever seen here

Why?

For not jumping to conclusions and explaining why?

For explaining what facts would get me to change my mind?

For only sometimes letting emotion cloud my better judgment?

This atma guy sounds like he failed out of law school so he's overcompensating here

atmasabr posted...

I don't respect your question any more than you respect my position.

It's easy to conclude that in the situation the officers encountered, a man with a gun, indeed, sleeping with a gun, that the shooting was justified. Remember, this was a homicide investigation. However it has not yet been established that the person they were looking for actually had business at that address.

[Edit: Sleeping with a gun? My New York norms with our safe lock laws are showing.]

In order for me to conclude that the matter was fair, and should be dismissed from controversy, I would need, at a minimum, information that the person they were looking for had a strong connection to the apartment they went to.

Conversely, in order for me to conclude something wrong occurred, I would need information that the person they were looking for had no connection to the apartment they went to.

I have mixed feelings about the time of day that I don't expect to resolve in either direction.

You set a remarkably high bar when

Police haven't said exactly why they wanted a no-knock warrant for this February 2 search. The man in question was listed on the search warrant but it's unclear what connection, if any, he had to the case St. Paul police were investigating. FOX 9 could not find any records showing he had been arrested following Wednesday's shooting.

The man they refer to in the quote is the apartments resident not Locke.

https://www.fox9.com/news/amir-locke-shooting-records- show-another-man-living-in-apartment-previously-threatened-officers.amp

Oh is he still going? I put him on ignore yesterday and cant even see half the posts on this page now

atma will not last long on this board. He gets suspended a lot. The benefit of the mod history reset will not last long for him.

For the record, atmasabr used to be on that board that got closed.

Holy shit

Is atma on payroll for @darkprince45 s department?

Protip for CE: Do not engage with atma. Just report and ignore.

Umbreon posted...

Protip for CE: Do not engage with atma. Just report and ignore.

That's censorship bullshit.

Bishop9800 posted...

For the record, atmasabr used to be on that board that got closed.

One of a very few people who survived the purge with absolutely no moderations.

atmasabr posted...

One of a very few people who survived the purge with absolutely no moderations

So you know that we shouldn't take you seriously

atmasabr posted...

I would imagine no-knock warrants have a high fatality rate. They tend to be limited to people who are very dangerous.

The fatality mentioned in OP wasn't on the warrant.

Was this an attempted "he shoplifted when he was 12" type dog whistle?

atmasabr posted...

https://news.yahoo.com/amir-locke-22-old-shot-220709548.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall
Who was Amir Locke, 22-year-old shot dead by Minneapolis police (yahoo.com)
...

Amir Locke, 22, was killed by Minneapolis Police as they executed a no-knock warrant during a homicide investigation.
Police entered the apartment where Mr Locke, who was holding a gun, was killed at 6.48am on Wednesday.
Police entered the apartment where Mr Locke, who was holding a gun, was killed at 6.48am on Wednesday.
Locke had concealed carry permit for gun

His parents, Andre Locke and Karen Wells, said on Friday that their son was executed by the Minneapolis SWAT team, when they woke him from a deep sleep. They added that he reached in confusion for his gun, for which he had a concealed carry permit, to protect himself.

Hmmmmmmm

Sorry, neutral. The fault lies with the warrant's address, not its method.

[The time of day?]

Still neutral.

"Neutral"

Lmfao. It seems it's always okay to be a 2nd amendment gun owner so long as you aren't black.

Bishop9800 posted...

So you know that we shouldn't take you seriously

You should take me seriously, because I am a serious poster who is not persuaded by the ebbs and flows of the mob. I avoid the flow, and for good reasons.

0x4B616E6A6F posted...

"Neutral"

Lmfao. It seems it's always okay to be a 2nd amendment gun owner so long as you aren't black.

What does race have to do with anything? I'm disgusted the state doesn't have safe storage gun laws. I barely avoided making a complete fool of myself thinking they were more common.

atmasabr posted...

You should take me seriously, because I am a serious poster who is not persuaded by the ebbs and flows of the mob. I avoid the flow, and for good reasons.

OK, now that was some funny shit....

atmasabr posted...

I'm disgusted the state doesn't have safe storage gun laws.

But not disgusted about an innocent man being killed.