Current Events > Look. Meat is just delicious, ok?

(+) Yeah! (+)

This is the best argument we have. The next best argument is "I just want to live my life doing things I want to do." The next good argument is "veganism is a wealth privilege, people in the third world don't have the luxury", but that has nothing to do with why you eat steak.

That's it. Those are the good arguments. As for the following:

• veganism is inherently malnourishing which is why vegans are all pale and weak
• veganism is worse for the environment than the meat industry is
• animals love the careful attendance of farmers who groom and milk their discomfort away
• eating meat is natural
• if we didn't have animals in factory farm cages then they would just die off and it would be a mass extinction event
• vegans demonstrably do things like use paper and harm the environment in other incidental ways or do other cruel things generally as people, therefore they are hypocrites

These are all incredibly poor, intellectually dishonest gotchas that with the slightest bit of lazy poking fall to pieces.

Just be honest. You like steak. I like steak. That's why you eat steak. You're not a goddamn warrior for the planet for eating steak.

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There's also the argument (that doesn't apply to you) that in certain parts of the world, meat is a lot more sustainable since they have to optimize against water usage rather than greenhouse gas emissions. Of course it becomes a delicate issue when food is so ingrained into people's cultural identity, and then certain groups of people are already subjected to various forms of oppression.

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Chicken & Fish > Steak

IMO

scar the 1 posted...

There's also the argument (that doesn't apply to you) that in certain parts of the world, meat is a lot more sustainable since they have to optimize against water usage rather than greenhouse gas emissions.

Do you have concrete examples and evidences of such cases?
Because in western countries it is the opposite. Meat is consuming more water than vegetal proteins.

https://waterfootprint.org/en/water-footprint/product-water-footprint/water-footprint-crop-and-animal-products/

Trying to justify why someone wants to eat meat is like trying to justify why someone wants to have sex

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David1988 posted...

Trying to justify why someone wants to eat meat is like trying to justify why someone wants to have sex

Equally if someone was going around cheating on their wife and spreading syphillis and and you asked them why they're doing it and they said "well you see, it's for the purpose of natural procreation as God intended", would you take them seriously

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No, much like I wouldnt take anyone seriously who eats meat and nothing else. Theres a difference between reasonably engaging with and embracing certain primal urges and sentiments that have been passed on for tens of thousands of years instead of letting such desires fully dominate all aspects of your behavior without thought or self reflection.

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I can cook vegan cuisine and I agree that meat is delicious.

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pinky0926 posted...

The next good argument is "veganism is a wealth privilege, people in the third world don't have the luxury", but that has nothing to do with why you eat steak.

The things I would point out about this:

1. People in developing nations already eat very little meat in most cases.
2. Poor people in developed nations are some of the most likely people to be vegan. Black Americans are nearly 3x as likely to be vegan or vegetarian as the country's general population. A plant-based diet is really cheap as long as you aren't over-reliant on prepackaged food.
3. Meat is incredibly destructive to the way life of many people in developing nations. Somali pirates were originally fishermen trying to stop illegal fishing that was depleting their local supply. The leading cause of deforestation in the Amazon is to create land for cattle farming and land to grown soybeans for the cattle.

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Son Of Spam posted...

The things I would point out about this:

1. People in developing nations already eat very little meat in most cases.
2. Poor people in developed nations are some of the most likely people to be vegan. Black Americans are nearly 3x as likely to be vegan or vegetarian as the country's general population. A plant-based diet is really cheap as long as you aren't over-reliant on prepackaged food.

Interestingly (and I didn't know this until someone pointed it out to me) - seems like parts of America have these "food deserts" where entire city blocks have little to no good veg and it's all ridiculously expensive and partially rotten, so your practical cheap options are whatever the local fast food joints have on offer.

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pinky0926 posted...

Interestingly (and I didn't know this until someone pointed it out to me) - seems like parts of America have these "food deserts" where entire city blocks have little to no good veg and it's all ridiculously expensive and partially rotten, so your practical cheap options are whatever the local fast food joints have on offer.

And despite being the most likely people to live in food deserts, minorities are cutting down their meat consumption more than white Americans.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53787329

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Son Of Spam posted...

And despite being the most likely people to live in food deserts, minorities are cutting down their meat consumption more than white Americans.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53787329

Very interesting


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David1988 posted...

No, much like I wouldnt take anyone seriously who eats meat and nothing else. Theres a difference between reasonably engaging with and embracing certain primal urges and sentiments that have been passed on for tens of thousands of years instead of letting such desires fully dominate all aspects of your behavior without thought or self reflection.

Not sure what this is saying
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It's also very hard to gain muscle and heal from major injuries on a vegan diet.

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There's been a few nba players that went vegan, should be an interesting sample

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emblem boy posted...

Not sure what this is saying

I was responding to tcs prior post with his analogy which was basically saying that just because someone does something that comes natural to them doesnt necessarily make that behavior ok. A sentiment I basically agreed with, theres reasonable ways of embracing certain primitive or biological urges instead of succumbing to them without thought. The world can learn to eat meat in a more efficient and environmentally friendly way, just because our desire to eat meat might have a more more primal or biological basis doesnt mean we should do so without thinking how were affecting the environment. However, at the same time that doesnt mean the desire to eat meat should be shamed. Like I said in my first post, trying to justify why someone would want to eat meat is like trying justify why someone wants to have sex.

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Herbette posted...

Do you have concrete examples and evidences of such cases?
Because in western countries it is the opposite. Meat is consuming more water than vegetal proteins.

https://waterfootprint.org/en/water-footprint/product-water-footprint/water-footprint-crop-and-animal-products/

Particularly in dry places where it takes a lot of water to grow good, but cattle can graze vegetation that humans can't digest. I'd expect various regions around the equator to have such conditions.

I came across a thread by an American agricultural researcher on Twitter where she was talking about this - how there's a portion of vegans who don't understand that part of their privilege is living in relatively wet parts of the world. The thread was years back so I won't try and look it up, but she posts a lot of interesting things, her name is Sarah Taber.

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That's always been the gist of my stance. I cannot imagine giving up chicken wings.

I do think I should cut back on the amount of meat I eat, but there don't seem to be any high protein alternatives that I enjoy.

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I eat meat but my wife and I have made the conscious effort of heavily reducing our intake. We eat meats or fish 3 times a week and the rest of the days are vegetarian meals only (well w/ the exception of eggs and cheese)

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Relient_K posted...

That's always been the gist of my stance. I cannot imagine giving up chicken wings.

I do think I should cut back on the amount of meat I eat, but there don't seem to be any high protein alternatives that I enjoy.

Have you ever tried soy curls? The texture is really close to chicken. It's also really cheap, high in protein, and it doesn't need refrigerated. The best part is it absorbs flavor, so it's very versatile. I use it to replace beef, chicken, and pork.

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Relient_K posted...

That's always been the gist of my stance. I cannot imagine giving up chicken wings.

I do think I should cut back on the amount of meat I eat, but there don't seem to be any high protein alternatives that I enjoy.

At this point, I eat meat like once a month, but fuck. Wings are the ultimate temptation for me.

Other alternatives just aren't the same, but t oh well.

Son Of Spam posted...

Relient_K posted...

That's always been the gist of my stance. I cannot imagine giving up chicken wings.

I do think I should cut back on the amount of meat I eat, but there don't seem to be any high protein alternatives that I enjoy.

Have you ever tried soy curls? The texture is really close to chicken. It's also really cheap, high in protein, and it doesn't need refrigerated. The best part is it absorbs flavor, so it's very versatile. I use it to replace beef, chicken, and pork.

Seitan is pretty good. I tried making my own recently...I need more practice
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emblem boy posted...

Seitan is pretty good. I tried making my own recently...I need more practice

I used vital wheat gluten to make pepperonis not long ago. The flavor was spot on. The texture wasn't exactly like the real thing, but it was close enough for me.

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Stop harassing meat eaters.

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The last people I need to justify my eating habits too are self righteous dick wads on the Internet

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Strider102 posted...

Stop harassing meat eaters.

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I have cut back on my meat eating a lot, especially because when I started dating my pescatarian girlfriend. I rarely even have meat when she isn't around other than when I go out with friends and just want a burger or something. It's an occasional treat now

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