Current Events > I feel like abortion is a complex topic that should be very simple.

(+) Yeah! (+)

And that is to decide whether anyone should have control over what a woman chooses to do with her own body. In my opinion, that really is the only question that matters.

Yes, I understand there is the whole "but she is committing murder!" aspect. But if the woman doesn't want the baby to begin with, you think she will do a good job raising him/her? Perhaps I am biased as an utilitarian, but I can't think of a good reason why people want to force a child into existence only to grow up feeling unwanted by his/her birth mother.

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Geiki Ganger posted...

Yes, I understand there is the whole "but she is committing murder!" aspect.

lmao at just brushing this aside

im pro-choice 100% but this is a major major sticking point to many people who are anti-abortion

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TheGoldenEel posted...

im pro-choice 100% but this is a major major sticking point to many people who are anti-abortion

They're lying or not understanding how logic works. Either way they shouldn't be taken seriously.

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Geiki Ganger posted...

Yes, I understand there is the whole "but she is committing murder!"

It doesn't matter. Bodily autonomy does.

I'm glad on this 99.9999999% male message board we can finally decide what is best for a womans body

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Sometimes it's not about the woman not wanting the baby, but that they don't have the means to take care of one. And you can't magically make it work

Many women really don't like having to get abortions. It fucks them up mentally.

DeadBankerDream posted...

They're lying or not understanding how logic works. Either way they shouldn't be taken seriously.

The problem is the question of when a life becomes a life is not something that can be easily answered by science

my wife is pregnant right now, were both very liberal and pro-choice, but also were thrilled to see our babys heartbeat on an ultrasound at 8 weeks, and would be devastated if we lost it, even though in theory we believe people should have the right to abort. Yes its just a fetus right now but its also our baby

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It should always be their choice. Anyone trying to decide by law what a woman should do with their bodies are moronic.

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TheGoldenEel posted...

lmao at just brushing this aside

im pro-choice 100% but this is a major major sticking point to many people who are anti-abortion

Yeah, I've known lots of very passionate anti-abortion folks, and its never been "I just want other people to be able to control a woman's body!" its always the whole murder thing. And for the record the most anti-abortion people I've personally known have always been women, so its not like they secretly want old white men to make all their bodily decisions or something.

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--Zero- posted...

Anyone trying to decide by law what a woman should do with their bodies are moronic.

Any law which states "you must or cannot do that to your own body" is automatically tyrannical.

The youngest ever premature baby just made it to their first birthday and it was like 4 months inside the womb.

If that doesnt give people pause nothing will. We need extensive information and educational campaigns and we need to be committing to abortions earlier. Anything longer than 3 months is weird af and should make us all feel icky.

If we educated properly we would need far less abortions, thats the real argument. If it was easier and there wasnt stigma youd wouldnt have late term abortions even as an idea outside of saving the mothers life.

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SevenTenths posted...

I'm glad on this 99.9999999% male message board we can finally decide what is best for a womans body

And a good chunk of the literal women here can't even get pregnant anyway

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MutantJohn posted...

And a good chunk of the literal women here can't even get pregnant anyway

There are figurative women here?

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TheGoldenEel posted...

The problem is the question of when a life becomes a life is not something that can be easily answered by science

my wife is pregnant right now, were both very liberal and pro-choice, but also were thrilled to see our babys heartbeat on an ultrasound at 8 weeks, and would be devastated if we lost it, even though in theory we believe people should have the right to abort. Yes its just a fetus right now but its also our baby

There are some people who consider their pets their babies.

MutantJohn posted...

And a good chunk of the literal women here can't even get pregnant anyway

Lol. This is a good topic

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I'm terrified of the near future America where abortion is outlawed and considered murder.

This is where Both Sides radical centrists can shut the fuck up. There will always be some idea that wins out and shapes policy. Everyone has ideas that they want to win out and everyone else's ideas will lose. The losers will not take pride in the fact that at least abortion can be legalized or outlawed with democracy.

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--Zero- posted...

It should always be their choice. Anyone trying to decide by law what a woman should do with their bodies are moronic.

The problem isn't what women can do with their own bodies, but what women can do with the baby's bodies. It's ok to believe in abortion but anybody who says its 100% about a woman's body is not arguing in good faith and should be ignored. There is a life at stake, not just a woman's body.

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how about, Stop killing babies?

Whats plan b

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HHH is the game posted...

The problem isn't what women can do with their own bodies, but what women can do with the baby's bodies. It's ok to believe in abortion but anybody who says its 100% about a woman's body is not arguing in good faith and should be ignored. There is a life at stake, not just a woman's body.

It's 100% about bodily autonomy. The fetus is a guest and can be kicked out at any time. I wouldn't support a full grown intelligent adult being forced to stay attached to another to live. I wouldn't even care who they were or how important they are. You have full say over your body and not even a fetus you chose to initially allow has any right to grow to term if you change your mind.

Besides, we have enough unplanned, abused, and/or orphaned children as it is. We don't need to be forcing disadvantaged children onto unwilling parents. No one benefits.

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hummus93 posted...

how about, Stop killing babies?

I heard conservatives just want liberals to meet them halfway on the issues. What's halfway between pro-choice and pro-life?

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If I lived to be 1,000 I will still not understand how people go into hysterics over abortion.

Mind your business

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Anti-abortionists are always the strongest argument for abortion.

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ShyOx posted...

The youngest ever premature baby just made it to their first birthday and it was like 4 months inside the womb.

If that doesnt give people pause nothing will. We need extensive information and educational campaigns and we need to be committing to abortions earlier. Anything longer than 3 months is weird af and should make us all feel icky.

If we educated properly we would need far less abortions, thats the real argument. If it was easier and there wasnt stigma youd wouldnt have late term abortions even as an idea outside of saving the mothers life.

abortions are a necessary part of healthcare, and they always will be.

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A government shouldn't have the authority to force a woman to carry a baby to term

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Is the baby inside the womans body?

If Yes - Drill baby drill!

If No - Congratulations you are now a mother!

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hockeybub89 posted...

It's 100% about bodily autonomy. The fetus is a guest and can be kicked out at any time. I wouldn't support a full grown intelligent adult being forced to stay attached to another to live. I wouldn't even care who they were or how important they are. You have full say over your body and not even a fetus you chose to initially allow has any right to grow to term if you change your mind.

Stuff like this is telling. "I don't care how it might kill something, it's a horrible temporary inconvenience to me." Sounds less concerned for health or choice than being sociopathic.

Sometimes I get to a dark enough place to say maybe we should give people that make these arguments the forced sterilization they would obviously appreciate so they can have all the unprotected sex they want and no one has any consequences to deal with.

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ShyOx posted...

The youngest ever premature baby just made it to their first birthday and it was like 4 months inside the womb.

If that doesnt give people pause nothing will. We need extensive information and educational campaigns and we need to be committing to abortions earlier. Anything longer than 3 months is weird af and should make us all feel icky.

If we educated properly we would need far less abortions, thats the real argument. If it was easier and there wasnt stigma youd wouldnt have late term abortions even as an idea outside of saving the mothers life.

I highly doubt it was 16 weeks considering 20 is considered the earliest to expect a CHANCE at survival for a baby. Url?

TheGoldenEel posted...

DeadBankerDream posted...

They're lying or not understanding how logic works. Either way they shouldn't be taken seriously.

The problem is the question of when a life becomes a life is not something that can be easily answered by science

my wife is pregnant right now, were both very liberal and pro-choice, but also were thrilled to see our babys heartbeat on an ultrasound at 8 weeks, and would be devastated if we lost it, even though in theory we believe people should have the right to abort. Yes its just a fetus right now but its also our baby

Yep, pretty much. People trying to hand wave the negative aspect of abortion just seems dishonest.

It should be both possible to agree that abortion should be legal and that society should aim to reduce unwanted pregnancies happening, aim to provide support for people who end up deciding to keep the unwanted pregnancy, and also have it possible to abort if that's what is ultimately wanted.
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emblem boy posted...

Yep, pretty much. People trying to hand wave the negative aspect of abortion just seems dishonest.

It should be both possible to agree that abortion should be legal and that society should aim to reduce unwanted pregnancies happening, aim to provide support for people who end up deciding to keep the unwanted pregnancy, and also have it possible to abort if that's what is ultimately wanted.

the negative aspects to abortion are completely irrelevant to the question of whether or not they should be available and safe for everyone who wants one: whether or not there are negative aspects, they are necessary.

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Nobody ever has sex anyway so this is all just academic

emblem boy posted...

It should be both possible to agree that abortion should be legal and that society should aim to reduce unwanted pregnancies happening, aim to provide support for people who end up deciding to keep the unwanted pregnancy, and also have it possible to abort if that's what is ultimately wanted.

You just described the majority of pro-choice folks while pro-birth people tend to want the opposite of all of those things.

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It's not complex. It's her body, it's her decision.

Most pro-lifers are stunningly full of shit.
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