Current Events > The crystarium was just a dumbed down version of the sphere grid

(+) Yeah! (+)

Don't @ me.

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in the crystarium in 13-2 is just a dumb version of the crystarium in 13

and they're both terrible systems that force you to go into the menu constantly to dump your points into instead of just having your stats go up automatically like every other fucking game with good leveling systems

Reis posted...

and they're both terrible systems that force you to go into the menu constantly to dump your points into instead of just having your stats go up automatically like every other fucking game with good leveling systems

Why do you even play RPGs? Watch a let's play or story synopsis if you don't want to play the game.

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Kaiganeer posted...

in the crystarium in 13-2 is just a dumb version of the crystarium in 13

I liked it better in 13-2 though I can't remember why. Maybe it's just because I liked the game better.

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what? how is constantly going into your menu to spend your points "playing the game"? its an unnecessary level of tedium that don't need to exist because they don't actually function any differently than you just gaining stats and abilities naturally

reis has the right of this, though. ffx was novel, but chubby.

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Reis posted...

what? how is constantly going into your menu to spend your points "playing the game"? its an unnecessary level of tedium that don't need to exist because they don't actually function any differently than you just gaining stats and abilities naturally

Yo imagine sucking enough that you have to constantly bring up the menu as opposed to just playing the piss easy game for a while first.

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what does this have to do with sucking or not, its literally about the tedious aspect of it that serves literally no purpose at all

I think part of what's supposed to separate it from just stats going up on level is choices in branching and whatnot

that said, sphere grid is not nearly as branchy as it pretends to be https://gameinternals.com/straightening-out-final-fantasy-xs-sphere-grid

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The only thing I've never liked about the sphere grid is that it makes characters become the same as they get stronger.

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Yo imagine sucking

don't fuck with this guy he beat ffx

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The difference is that you get to make choices, at least in some places. You can go down your character's main grid or you can go down their side grids. You also get "mini-levels" after most fights instead of having to wait to fully level up.

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bro i just did stat maxing a month ago on 10, and i 100%'d 13 a few weeks ago





the only times you actually have "choice" on the sphere grid is you decide to play around with stat maxing, otherwise you're just on a straight line the entire time getting whatever you can pick up

The Dragon Quest 11 system was an even MORE dumbed down version.

i don't know how much of a choice i'd say the side paths really present, it's either 'get them now' or 'have to backtrack to get them later'. and on a first pass through the sphere grid you're probably trying to be efficient.

it was a goofy, gamified system and it was basically clunk that wasn't really necessary. but they also had the ctb system in ffx and that was good. transparency is good.

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So... you're implying the sphere grid let you be in six different locations at once?

The crystarium has only a superficial similarity to the sphere grid. Both suffer from a flaw of being potentially tedious, especially during a lot of leveling up. Aside from that they have very different strengths and weaknesses.

Relient_K posted...

I liked it better in 13-2 though I can't remember why. Maybe it's just because I liked the game better.

13-2 Crystarium has some nice advantages, including more player agency in when different roles open up and a much faster interface. Those two things alone are major improvements over 13's version, although 13-2's bonus stat system with the different size Crystarium nodes is just obnoxious.

Spheregrid is vastly overrated. It takes the fun and variety out of the characters when they all ultimately have the same stats and abilities. Dedicated jobs are much more interesting.
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The sphere grid railroads you too hard, but at least you can make actual choices at some points of the game. The only relevant choices the crystarium gives you is which order you want to level a character's main roles until the story progression maxes them out. And even then, the game flat out told me I was wrong for not leveling Sazh's synergist role enough before his Eidolon fight to get Haste.

The crystarium is essentially almost as linear as just getting a bunch of stat boosts and skills on level ups like you do in say, FF4, but it takes five hundred times longer. By the end of the game, I wanted to curse whoever decided that when you start up using CP in the Crystarium, it takes like an extra second or two before the progression bar reaches full speed. And I mean curse as in I wanted to cast a malignant spell on him to reduce his life quality in any which way.
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tiornys posted...

Both suffer from a flaw of being potentially tedious, especially during a lot of leveling up.

at the very least, the crystarium didnt have the obnoxious animations that you had to wait through like when moving and learning skills on the sphere grid did

DeadBankerDream posted...

And even then, the game flat out told me I was wrong for not leveling Sazh's synergist role enough before his Eidolon fight to get Haste.

Just because you weren't able to figure out how to win that fight without Haste does not mean you were forced to have Haste. That fight is eminently winnable without it.

Crystarium gives more choices than just progression through the primary roles, as there are plenty of side nodes that can temporarily or permanently* be skipped and also the secondary roles can realistically be leveled to some extent. It's a lot more open than FF4, and a lot less open than the sphere grid or the license board.

You're absolutely right that the time it takes to spend CP is way too long, especially in that "run-up" period.

edit to add:
*: permanent for typical play, obviously if going for full trophies or similar you'd eventually have to go fill these in.

The branches in the crystarium are not significant choices. If it's a stat your character uses, or an actually important thing like an ability or accessory slot you get it because there's no reason not to. If it's +3 strength for Hope you ignore it unless you like things to be completed or look nicely. I feel like at the end of the game there are actual branches that are more than one node, but it's probably not more than 3. The exp expended of the branches are overall insignificant enough that there's no real reason to not take them unless you want that ability you can see 2 encounters earlier, or like I said, it's literally a useless stat.
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DeadBankerDream posted...

The branches in the crystarium are not significant choices. If it's a stat your character uses, or an actually important thing like an ability or accessory slot you get it because there's no reason not to. If it's +3 strength for Hope you ignore it unless you like things to be completed or look nicely. I feel like at the end of the game there are actual branches that are more than one node, but it's probably not more than 3. The exp expended of the branches are overall insignificant enough that there's no real reason to not take them unless you want that ability you can see 2 encounters earlier, or like I said, it's literally a useless stat.

Hmm. I look at the stage of the Crystarium where Sazh learns Haste and I see lots of side nodes in his RAV and COM roles at that stage, all of which cost more CP than Haste does. But apparently the choice of whether to spend CP on those right away or to wait until later isn't a significant choice. Ok.

Sure, that one time in the entire game it makes a significant difference, but really, I only had that issue because I didn't possess future knowledge on my first playthrough. I guess you say that in subsequent playthroughs it is a significant choice if you want to rush Haste on Sazh before Nautilus or just save a couple of aerosols and do whatever you want with his CP.
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Oh please. Don't mistake one example for the entire potential argument. You want some actual analysis? Ok.

Hope's stage 8 primary roles each cost 100,000 CP along the primary path to Role Level 4 (don't try to argue that the role levels aren't significant). His MED role has an additional 88,000 CP in side nodes, his SYN role has an additional 102,000 CP in side nodes, and his RAV role has an additional 126,000 CP in side nodes. Stage 8 mostly covers chapter 11. One of the best grinding spots during chapter 11 is the famous Behemoth King/Megistotherian fight which nets you 6,600 CP per fight.

6,600 CP per encounter. 316,000 CP worth of side nodes. "A couple of encounters" doesn't cover this.

Reis posted...

what? how is constantly going into your menu to spend your points "playing the game"? its an unnecessary level of tedium that don't need to exist because they don't actually function any differently than you just gaining stats and abilities naturally

Yeah, we get it. You don't actually like RPGs.

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vigorm0rtis posted...

Yeah, we get it. You don't actually like RPGs.

excellent argument, you've thoroughly convinced me that the sphere grid is a good system as opposed to the traditional level up system the series has normally

Eh, I wouldn't go as far as to say the sphere grid was a "bad" system. It just wasn't anything particularly special. The sphere grid and the crystarium might be tedious and lacking in real choices, but at least they still operate under the basic concept of getting stronger the more enemies you defeat.

Compare that to FF2, where if you want any kind of decent defensive stat gains you either have to waste time letting enemies attack you or even attack yourself, and even then aren't guaranteed any results. Or FF8, where your main source of stat building is reliant on slowly drawing magic from enemies, or playing a card game for hours on end.

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KeeperOfShadows posted...

Compare that to FF2, where if you want any kind of decent defensive stat gains you either have to waste time letting enemies attack you or even attack yourself, and even then aren't guaranteed any results. Or FF8, where your main source of stat building is reliant on slowly drawing magic from enemies, or playing a card game for hours on end.

yes this is true but it is commonly accepted that both 2 and 8 have awful systems so i dont think we should be using them as frame of references