Current Events > How come there are still countries that make it illegal/death for homosexuality?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Places like Saudi Araba, Iran, Sudan, etc. The rules there are pretty damn crazy. There's also many countries where it is illegal to engage in homosexual acts. Although, it's not as extreme as the death penalty, it's still pretty ridiculous. Living in the west, I feel pretty damn lucky, to be honest. I can't imagine what it's like to live in countries like those if you're not cis/straight. You'd think now that we're in the 21st century things would change, but they're not.

some places haven't caught up to others in terms of human rights
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That's what happens when a population chooses to adhere to a sixth-century totalitarian ideology.

Because they disagree with it?

Why did the US have slavery for so long?

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GregShmedley posted...

Because religion.

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GregShmedley posted...

Because religion.

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Lairen posted...

Because they disagree with it?

"why are they against it?" "uuhhhh obvsioulys cause tyeyre against it???? dumbass"

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Because religion.

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This really shouldn't be a surprise. Even the top developed countries have supremacists and corrupt officials in power and authority positions. Of course undeveloped countries would be even more extreme. 2021 is still a long way to go for even developed countries.

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Religion is the bane of freedom seekers everywhere

Religions being the problem is obvious, but we have religions in the west too. We have a lot of religions in the west, but we're not as backwards as some of these countries, so I don't think that is the main issue. Is it culture? Is it how people are raised?

GregShmedley posted...

Because religion.

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Crescente posted...

Religions being the problem is obvious, but we have religions in the west too. We have a lot of religions in the west, but we're not as backwards as some of these countries, so I don't think that is the main issue. Is it culture? Is it how people are raised?

Religion doesn't generally dictate law in Western countries - or, for that matter, in non-Western countries that don't put you to death for being gay.

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Crescente posted...

Religions being the problem is obvious, but we have religions in the west too. We have a lot of religions in the west, but we're not as backwards as some of these countries, so I don't think that is the main issue. Is it culture? Is it how people are raised?

Western religions aren't nearly as draconian.

PokemonYoutube posted...

Western religions aren't nearly as draconian.

The religions themself really aren't much better; it's that they have less authority given to them that makes the difference.

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Crescente posted...

Religions being the problem is obvious, but we have religions in the west too. We have a lot of religions in the west, but we're not as backwards as some of these countries, so I don't think that is the main issue. Is it culture? Is it how people are raised?

Anerica only legalized all gay marriage 5 years ago. Half of our politicians fight against LGBT rights on the daily. Discrimination against them is a debate.

Are we really that far ahead? We still treated black people as 2nd class citizens 60 years ago.

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Trumble posted...

Religion doesn't generally dictate law in Western countries

debatable

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Crescente posted...

Religions being the problem is obvious, but we have religions in the west too. We have a lot of religions in the west, but we're not as backwards as some of these countries, so I don't think that is the main issue. Is it culture? Is it how people are raised?

You dont have an influx of different thought or ideas pooling around to take a good look at antiquated values and attempt to update them or inspect if that was really the original intent of such writings. I dont believe in looking at religion through the eyes of the future, but I do find that its important to go back with the data you have and interpret what those clauses mean as it pertains to the culture of that time and the cultures around it.

For all the flack America gets Im still glad to have been born here exposed to different peoples perspectives because it allowed me to get closer to my own religion and realize there was work to be done to educate those that use religion as a means to exclude or dominate

This is simply not possible in locations where theres only one stream of life coming in

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RedJackson posted...

it allowed me to get closer to my own religion and realize there was work to be done to educate those that use religion as a means to exclude or dominate

You mean working as they are intended?

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Islam is 1500 years younger than christianity which has a very bloody history islam will get there eventually

hockeybub89 posted...

Anerica only legalized all gay marriage 5 years ago. Half of our politicians fight against LGBT rights on the daily. Discrimination against them is a debate.

Are we really that far ahead? We still treated black people as 2nd class citizens 60 years ago.

Thousands of migrant workers have died while building the stadiums for the 2022 World Cup in Qatar under slavery-like working conditions. Yes. We are really that far ahead.

Choco posted...

debatable

This just in: The USA is not the only country.

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CADE FOSTER posted...

Islam is 1500 years younger than christianity which has a very bloody history islam will get there eventually

600 years, not 1500.

RedJackson posted...

You dont have an influx of different thought or ideas pooling around to take a good look at antiquated values and attempt to update them or inspect if that was really the original intent of such writings. I dont believe in looking at religion through the eyes of the future, but I do find that its important to go back with the data you have and interpret what those clauses mean as it pertains to the culture of that time and the cultures around it.

For all the flack America gets Im still glad to have been born here exposed to different peoples perspectives because it allowed me to get closer to my own religion and realize there was work to be done to educate those that use religion as a means to exclude or dominate

This is simply not possible in locations where theres only one stream of life coming in

So what you're saying is..... the Middle East could use some diversity?

Trumble posted...

This just in: The USA is not the only country.

i live in a country where the ruling party literally has "christian" in their name but go off i guess

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Don't they force gays to become transgendered in Iran or something?

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Crescente posted...

I can't imagine what it's like to live in countries like those if you're not cis/straight.

Funny thing about Iran...

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China literally has Uighur Muslims used as slave labors to make your iPhones to this day.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/29/lens-technology-apple-uighur/

Apple is lobbying against a bill aimed at stopping forced labor in China. Tim Cook isn't all that "Progressive" / good person if he cares more about $$$ than humanity.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/11/20/apple-uighur/

Those of us who live in Western Democracies are the lucky ones, if you were born in Xinjiang Province AKA East Turkistan, you will have it far worse than others today.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-forcefully-harvests-organs-detainees-tribunal-concludes-n1018646
https://www.businessinsider.com/china-harvesting-organs-of-uighur-muslims-china-tribunal-tells-un-2019-9

The CCP (Chinese Communist Party) have you locked up in Concentration Camps, forced to abandon your cultures language at gun point, forced into slave manufacturing, and if you're really unlucky, they'll harvest your organs for cheap to regular "Han Chinese" folks.

In China, the organ transplant business gets you a fresh organ in a matter of days with little to no wait time.

They can literally choose from a menu of what type of person they want to harvest from.

And nobody outside of China is willing to stick their countries necks out to stop the CCP because they're all bribed by easy money to access the Chinese market.

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Dathrowed1 posted...

Funny thing about Iran...

Iran defends execution of gay people article published on 2019/12-06
https://www.dw.com/en/iran-defends-execution-of-gay-people/a-49144899

The US on Wednesday accused Iran of violating fundamental human rights after Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammed Javad Zarif endorsed the execution of gay people.
Zarif defended his country's draconian policies at a joint press conference with German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas in Tehran on Monday.
A reporter from German tabloid Bild asked: "Why are homosexuals executed in Iran because of their sexual orientation?"
He responded: "Our society has moral principles. And we live according to these principles. These are moral principles concerning the behavior of people in general. And that means that the law is respected and the law is obeyed," after railing against human rights violations by the US and Israel.
Maas, who was in Iran to negotiate the continuation of the nuclear deal, largely ignored the issue at the time.
Read more: Amnesty International reports global drop in executions
Shadi Amin, an Iranian writer and activist who now lives in Germany, told DW-Farsi that she was "outraged" by the Iranian foreign minister's comments. "Humiliation, repression and sexual harassment of a particular social group should be viewed critically and prohibited by law," Amin said.
"Violating LGBT rights under the guise of 'moral principles' shows that Zarif doesn't respect human rights. LGBT rights are human rights. Iran must not violate them by giving religious or cultural reasons," she said. "New laws have made societies aware of the differences and accept them."
"Many homosexuals tell us of abuse, torture and threats faced by their families and friends. As long as the country's laws do not change, the situation of homosexuals in Iran will not improve," said Amin.
Inhuman and unacceptable
The German Foreign Ministry's Michael Roth later clarified to Bild: "LGBTI rights are human rights. And they have always been. Everywhere. No religious, cultural or ethnic tradition justifies state persecution, especially the execution of homosexuals. In Iran and seven other countries worldwide, homosexuals face the death penalty. That is inhuman and completely unacceptable."
His comments came after Maas was criticized by German politicians for not addressing the issue at the time.
The US ambassador to Germany and the country's most senior openly-gay official, Richard Grenell, on Wednesday slammed Iran for its position in comments to German and Israeli media.
"The Iranian regime has violated basic principles of the United Nations," he told the German Press Agency (DPA).
"UN members should honor (the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights) if they want to be members at all. The criminalization of homosexuality plainly violates this declaration."
Homosexuality violates Islamic Law in Iran and can be punishable by death. Several thousand people have been executed for homosexuality since the 1979 Islamic revolution, according to some rights activists.

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KamenRiderBlade posted...

Iran defends execution of gay people article published on 2019/12-06
https://www.dw.com/en/iran-defends-execution-of-gay-people/a-49144899

Show us their policies on the transgender population

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Thats why americans should be happy. In the USA there is freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of press, freedom of internet. You can be any sexual orientation you want. Things like these are banned in many countries. Even world power countries like china and russia. Which is a shame, calling yourself a world power yet having ideals from a thousand years ago

Dathrowed1 posted...

Show us their policies on the transgender population

How Iran's anti-LGBT policies put transgender people at risk published on 2020/04-28
https://www.dw.com/en/how-irans-anti-lgbt-policies-put-transgender-people-at-risk/a-53270136

Despite repressive laws against homosexuality, gender reassignment surgery remains legal in Iran. But Iranians who seek sex change operations are faced with a harsh approval process and a high risk of botched surgeries.
When Arya came out as transgender, his family immediately rejected the idea. "They did not accept that I was trans," says Arya, who wishes to remain anonymous. "They told me, 'Because you were born as a girl, you need to live as a girl.'"
Arya, 38, who identifies as a gender non-binary person, came out to his family in Tehran, Iran's capital, when he was 25, and spent two years seeking approval for a sex change operation.
Despite repressive anti-LGBT laws, gender reassignment surgery remains legal in Iran. However, the path to getting legal approval to transition is fraught with humiliating procedures, including virginity tests, court trials, extensive questioning and mandatory counseling.
Read more: How the coronavirus has altered Iranians' view of faith
Even after people get through the surgery and are legally able to change their sex on their identity cards, many are left without families, homes and work, while others face lasting physical damage from the procedure itself.
The process
"Your rights will be violated before, during and after the surgery," says Shadi Amin, the director of 6rang, an organization that helps LGBT people in Iran. Approval often takes around one to two years, but can take much longer than that in some cases.
"When the argument went on and on, they brought me to the psychologist, which was the first step," says Arya.
Early on in the process, Arya says he was handed a questionnaire with a long list of questions, including: "Imagine that you are in a room and inside that room there is a fire starting, and you need to save your mom or a bunch of cats, which one do you choose?" and "Would you describe yourself as a circle, a triangle or a square?"
Based on these questions, he says, psychologists began to assess whether Arya was truly transgender or whether it was "just a phase."
Others, says Amin, are subjected to virginity tests, which are, "for a lot of them, a painful procedure."
"If you are not a virgin anymore and you are not married, it will be a problem."
Additionally, those going through the process have to have a family member accompanying them at all times, which only added to Arya's stress, as his mother was with him during each session. "So you need to go through public therapy, and then after years and years of that you need to go through the court process, and after that you need to go through the surgery," says Arya.

A medical risk
Despite the years spent in counseling and court sessions to obtain legal permission to have the surgery and reassign his gender identity, Arya changed his mind about the procedure when he saw the aftermath of other operations.
As sex change surgeries are often conducted by unqualified doctors, the end results can leave patients not just with scars, but also with lifelong injuries. "They have damages because most of the doctors are not specialists on transsexual issues. Most of the doctors are beauty surgeons," says Amin.
"In some cases, they do the entire surgery in one day." Afterwards, many people do not have enough money to pay to stay and recover in the hospital, and many do not have homes to go back to.
"That is the reason for two deaths that we could report," says Amin. "The person is there in a hostel and is dead because of the bleeding after the operation."
In addition to living with the results of botched surgeries, some people face difficulties as a result of a misuse of hormone therapy. While some patients administer their own hormones without the supervision of a doctor, many of the surgeons are also not well versed in how to administer the therapy, according to Amin.
"A lot of people who want to do the hormone therapy, they buy it from the black market, and they use it in overdoses because they want to have a faster change," says Amin. "A lot of them have high blood pressure, heart problems, kidney problems, and when you see them, you can really immediately know that this person is not healthy anymore."
The visual results of the surgery are also often far different from what the person may have envisioned. Arya not only feared for the way he would look afterwards, but also for the health problems that could ensue.
"There are a lot of pains after the surgery, lots of unwanted outcomes. You can't have sex after that because you are in pain, you have infections. You don't feel comfortable getting naked in front of people because you have lots of scars."
"When I saw the results of the surgery, I realized that I don't want to do that. I can't accept this," says Arya. "So I decided to just live as a girl."

Transitioning as a matter of life or death
While Arya chose to pursue a sex change in Iran due to his gender identity, others, who do not feel as if they are transgender often apply for the surgery so that they don't have to live in fear of being hanged, imprisoned or lashed for homosexuality.
"The sex change process is also a way of cleansing homosexuality in Iran," says Amin. "You have to change your sex or you have to change your sexual orientation."
Although there is no direct method of forcing homosexual people to apply for transitions, Amin says that social and familial pressure, combined with a fear of death, are enough to push people to transition.
"They medicalize the transsexuality issue. They say that transsexuality can be cured by sex change operations, but the homosexuals, they are immoral and unhuman," she says.
For many, going through the transition is the only way that they can legally live with their partner without fearing for their lives.
"That's why when they know that they have no rights as a homosexual, and they want to live with their partner, the only way they have to do this is by undergoing sex change surgery."

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what about russia
whats their religion

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Living as a transgender person in Iran
Once the transition is made, many are forced to break ties with their families, friends, and all of the people who they knew before. Many move to other cities to start new lives, and are often faced with homelessness and forced into sex work to support themselves.
Additionally, adopting the norms of their legal gender can be another major adjustment in Iran, where men and women are separated in almost every aspect of life, including public transportation and classrooms.
"You should imagine that [after] you change your sex, you go to another society which is totally foreign for you, totally new for you, and you have to deal with that," says Amin. "You have lived as a woman all of your life, and now you are a man and you have to do all the things that a man did before."
"Even after the surgery, you must act as if you are not transgender," says Amin.
For Arya, going through the surgery meant he would have to let go of his family, too. His parents felt that his transition would be shameful if other relatives knew. "One of the main things that my family told me, is that if I went through the surgery, 'We are going to say that something happened to you,'" says Arya. "You cannot have any relationship with anyone from your past life."
He thought, "So I'm going to go through my future without any support, without any love, without the people that I knew before."
This process of starting a new life also makes it difficult to maintain data on what happens to people once they transition.
"We don't have any statistics about how they feel after the operation because most people will be lost in other cities," says Amin. "They don't want to show their history. They don't want anything to do with the people they had a connection with before."

A new beginning
Arya left Iran three years ago. He first moved to Portugal and now lives in Berlin. He started his social transition, or the process of making others aware of his gender identity, in September of last year, and his medical transition in March. However, due to the coronavirus pandemic, he has had to put the medical portion of his transition on hold for the time being.
In Europe, he says he has found a new life and a sense of freedom that he didn't have in Iran.
"I am free to be myself. I am free to tell other people how I feel. I am free to do something for my friends who are in the same situation inside the country," he said. "It's like living a dream."

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A lot of of countries dont want to be like the USA and thats their business not ours

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EricDraven59 posted...

Thats why americans should be happy. In the USA there is freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of press, freedom of internet. You can be any sexual orientation you want. Things like these are banned in many countries. Even world power countries like china and russia. Which is a shame, calling yourself a world power yet having ideals from a thousand years ago

"you should be happy because some places are worse" has always been a fucking stupid take

skermac posted...

A lot of of countries dont want to be like the USA and thats their business not ours

nazi germany didn't want to be like the usa either and as a german i can assure you i prefer the americanized version

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