Current Events > Final Fantasy XIII was actually good.

(+) Yeah! (+)

and it's a shame that the game hasn't gotten a re-release.

What did you like about it?

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I'm still waiting for the Final Fantasy XIII Complete Collection SE. Make it happen damnit.

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They may have well just used the sphere grid with what they were going for.

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FFX was basically a hallway and that game was great. What makes people hate FFXIII so much?

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Rika_Furude posted...

FFX was basically a hallway and that game was great. What makes people hate FFXIII so much?

They don't understand what L'cie, Fal'cie, Cie'th are despite the characters telling you multiple times what they are.

Moms are tough.

Hope cries after his mom dies and being on a train where everyone is supposed to be massacred at the end of the line.

Vanille is too cheerful despite her being that way so she doesn't fall into depression.

Snow's "I'm a hero!!!" mantra.

Party leader death = game over

Use auto-battle over and over again then complain.

They have to read.

"Omg why can't I max my characters at the beginning of the game!?"

The list goes on.

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I had two main issues with the game.

1: The way they told the story made it very hard to connect to anything. With it all being in flashbacks, I kept thinking: "You know, if I had known this a few hours ago, some of the scenes then would have felt impactful. Instead, they try to make them impactful after the fact."

Really felt like the story of the game had been going on for hours before you ever hit New Game, and you are coming in the middle of it.

2: The battle system had potential, but the enemies and encounters outside of boss fights were no real fun. Every normal encounter felt like a slog by the halfway point if the game, with damage sponge enemies that you had to spend d way too much time in for a normal fight.

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Strider102 posted...

Moms are tough.

Honestly, that kind of turned me off from the game. It was New Square's typical shoddy writing, being not-so-subtle in telling us, "Hey! This is Lightning's mom! Look at her! I bet you can't tell this is Lightning's mom! Also, this is why Lightning is strong! Instead of showing you, we'll have her TELL you to make sure we get the point across!"

I mean, the trailers already turned me off because they felt like the game was just being, "Look! Dramatic things happen!" and "Mom's are tough" didn't help convince me that the writing was decent.

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Kisai posted...

Honestly, that kind of turned me off from the game. It was New Square's typical shoddy writing, being not-so-subtle in telling us, "Hey! This is Lightning's mom! Look at her! I bet you can't tell this is Lightning's mom! Also, this is why Lightning is strong! Instead of showing you, we'll have her TELL you to make sure we get the point across!"

I mean, the trailers already turned me off because they felt like the game was just being, "Look! Dramatic things happen!" and "Mom's are tough" didn't help convince me that the writing was decent.

I mean, it was Hope's mom. Not Lightning's.

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The story is awful and the character's are unlikable , but I enjoyed the gameplay , it was a nice change .

Well except for the weapon upgrade system , which is also crap .
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FFX is a hallway with lots of branches, gimmicks, breaks, etc. FF13 is a hallway where you do nothing but move forward and fight. Random encounters and the ability to use every character in battle means not every single thing you do is pre-ordained. FFX's hallway being segmented into different screens means they are better designed and can provide unique visuals even within the same "dungeon". I haven't played the game in years and I can still remember each screen of Macalania Forest, Besaid Island, etc. Because the hallways of FF13 are one long, unseparated screen that take at least one, often several hours to get through, everything looks the same and I can't remember any unique thing about them other than an overall impression of "gorgeous". And it hasn't been as long since I played 13 as it has since I played 10. In comparison to Macalania, which I remember everything about, the ice level of 13, the frozen lake at the start of the game, I couldn't tell you a fucking thing about other than at some point they walk over a tube and it makes Sazh shit his pants. Even though you spend at least an hour going through it. Everything looks the same.

People who compare the two as if there is no difference literally have no clue what they're talking about.

They also ignore the context of the two games' story. FFX is literally about going on a pre-ordained path of pilgrimage. FF13 is about a band of fugitives who just walk forward even when its of no benefit to their desire to not get captured by authorities.
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Rika_Furude posted...

FFX was basically a hallway and that game was great. What makes people hate FFXIII so much?

Because X had big explorable areas and actual towns.

They don't understand what L'cie, Fal'cie, Cie'th are despite the characters telling you multiple times what they are.

They explain it horribly and not in any detail.

Moms are tough.

The game criminally misuses Mary Elizabeth Mglynn

Hope cries after his mom dies and being on a train where everyone is supposed to be massacred at the end of the line.

You pulled this complaint out your arse.

Vanille is too cheerful despite her being that way so she doesn't fall into depression.

Same with this one.

Snow's "I'm a hero!!!" mantra.

His mantra that got someone killed but the main complaint is that he is a fucking moron.

Party leader death = game over

Is a legit complaint.

Use auto-battle over and over again then complain.

There is 0 reason not to.

They have to read.

90% of the lore and world building being in the encyclopaedia is a massive fuck up.

"Omg why can't I max my characters at the beginning of the game!?"

The complaint is that every character is the same until chapter 11 of 13 with very little customisation and literally every other FF lets you grind.

@Strider102

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The things I listed were the most common complaints as to why XIII sucked, especially the ones about Hope and Vanille on the XIII board back when it was the new FF.

It's kinda weird nobody talks about party leader death being a game over sucking in say a Persona game.

With auto-battle, if an enemy is weak against say Ice, and auto-battle selects Blizzard, Aero, Fire, Blizzard, Aero, Fire as the attack sequence, that's not exactly optimal.

Everything else I more or less agree with.

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Strider102 posted...

With auto-battle, if an enemy is weak against say Ice, and auto-battle selects Blizzard, Aero, Fire, Blizzard, Aero, Fire as the attack sequence, that's not exactly optimal.

I don't remember auto-battle working that way. IIRC you can discern an enemy's weaknesses either through using Libra or repeated attacks on it, and when that is discerned auto-battle uses that knowledge when setting up an attack string against it.

I don't really hate the party leader death = game over, but it is weird in the setting of an FF game. Having phoenix downs that work fine, except when an arbitrary character that the game chooses needs them is rather weird. Also the final boss can use a Death status attack on the party leader, which is fucking stupid.
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Rika_Furude posted...

FFX was basically a hallway and that game was great. What makes people hate FFXIII so much?

There are supposed to be bits in between, side paths, towns to explore, people to talk to. FFXIII not only has literal straight line areas, but more egregiously puts a load of interesting set pieces one invisible wall away from being explored. "Oh, check out this beautiful crystal area," that you can never explore. "Oh, we finally made it to town. Good thing we don't need to shop outside the save points!"
Other games have a thin-veil of exploration, things to make you feel like your experience is unique, interesting, and engaging. FFXIII is literally "walk forwards (not necessarily straight), avoid enemies (since levels are capped), and push the story."

Compare: https://tinyurl.com/y74mvoze
FFXII: https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/18j45s028kfkcjpg.jpg

For a more recent comparison, see FFVII:R. It's actually super linear, from movement between towns to areas to explore. There's very few places you can step off the trail. But there's also sidequests, missions, VR fights, and arenas to distract you. You don't feel like you're railroaded through the main quest.

I like the game. I think the characters are interesting, the gameplay is great (once you get out of the 5 hour long tutorial), and exploring pulse is actually exciting.

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DeadBankerDream posted...

I don't remember auto-battle working that way. IIRC you can discern an enemy's weaknesses either through using Libra or repeated attacks on it, and when that is discerned auto-battle uses that knowledge when setting up an attack string against it.

Unfortunately it is how goes, even with Libra. And every time I would scratch my head wondering how it makes any sense.

Sometimes Hope or Vanille would use Thundara or Thundaga, but then afterwards if the enemy survived they'd move to a different element.

The exception is they never seem to use an element an enemy is strong against or absorbs, which is a saving grace I guess.

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ChocoboMog123 posted...

There are supposed to be bits in between, side paths, towns to explore, people to talk to. FFXIII not only has literal straight line areas, but more egregiously puts a load of interesting set pieces one invisible wall away from being explored. "Oh, check out this beautiful crystal area," that you can never explore. "Oh, we finally made it to town. Good thing we don't need to shop outside the save points!"
Other games have a thin-veil of exploration, things to make you feel like your experience is unique, interesting, and engaging. FFXIII is literally "walk forwards (not necessarily straight), avoid enemies (since levels are capped), and push the story."

Compare: https://tinyurl.com/y74mvoze
FFXII: https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/18j45s028kfkcjpg.jpg

For a more recent comparison, see FFVII:R. It's actually super linear, from movement between towns to areas to explore. There's very few places you can step off the trail. But there's also sidequests, missions, VR fights, and arenas to distract you. You don't feel like you're railroaded through the main quest.

I like the game. I think the characters are interesting, the gameplay is great (once you get out of the 5 hour long tutorial), and exploring pulse is actually exciting.

More of a 50 hour tutorial as Pulse is in chapter 11 and just a big field so not really that exciting imo.

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Yeah I never really understood the "once you get to Pulse it becomes good" position. Sure it's not a literal hallway anymore, but there's still nothing to do but fight. I guess you can ride chocobos, but other than doing it because CHOCOBOS! I didn't see any reason to. The rewards for doing so are paltry compared to the time spent obtaining them.

Even the Cie'th Stone missions aren't really sidequests, they're just you being able to choose which enemy you want to fight. There's some treasure spheres here and there on Pulse, sure, but overall there's little reason to explore other than finding different things to fight.
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Idunno, that Jumbo Cactuar mission was kinda funny.

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The game could have done alot better without all the ridiculous lore and jargon they tried incorporating in a sort 30hr one off game.

Which is a problem for many of the newer FFs post 10 actually. And a shame becuase it and the world and designs had great potential.

And instead of building on it in 13-2 and 3 they dumped it completely each time.

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Strider102 posted...

I'm still waiting for the Final Fantasy XIII Complete Collection SE. Make it happen damnit.

If you mean the FF XIII trilogy, I agree.

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I like the XIII games, but it would have been perfect if it had the exploration of the Lightning Returns, combat/crystarium of XIII-2, and a better written story.

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I hate 13 and Lightning Returns, but if they released a trilogy remaster, I'd probably get it for 13-2, if it had all the combat arena DLC included, and give the other two a retry since I'd be owning them.
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Strider102 posted...

They don't understand what L'cie, Fal'cie, Cie'th are despite the characters telling you multiple times what they are.

This

And hope is annoying
Snow is annoying
Shiva being a motorbike is stupid
It doesn't get better at chapter 10/11 (whichever one people said it gets better)
That stupid vocal song when running through the forest
Leveling restrictions

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I will say, I understand what fal'cie are, but I think the concept is half-baked. I don't understand how Cocoon was made in the first place if the fal'cie can't deviate from their focus. How did the Cocoon fal'cie stop what they were focused to do and make a deathstar instead. How did the Pulse fal'cie make war on the Cocoon fal'Cie if they weren't capable of stopping what they were doing, and then why did they just stop making war seemingly arbitrarily?

It's very confusing and seems self-contradictory.
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Strider102 posted...

It's kinda weird nobody talks about party leader death being a game over sucking in say a Persona game.

Except people do. Any time that series allows enemies to have instant death abilities before you can be immune to them it becomes an infamous example of stupid game design. But generally speaking that doesn't happen too often that I can recall, and the main character has the most options by far for keeping himself alive by late in the game. Whereas in FFXIII the first form of the final boss has an instant death ability that you cannot ever be immune to that will hit around half the time even if you resist it and that it can use pretty freely.

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The thing that gets me with the l'cie, fal'cie, etc thing is why did they make up new words rather than use familiar established terminologies, like aeon/primal for fal'cie, esper for l'cie. I feel like they wasted a lot of effort trying to reinvent the wheel there when they could have been more straight forward and players familiar with the franchise would have connected the dots.

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I mean, FF10 was the first game to call summons aeons, and unless 11 did it, 14 was the first to call them primals, so I don't get what you're saying here.
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Turns out XI called summons "avatars" not "primals", but still.

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yeah and 6 called them espers, 9 called them eidolons and 8 calls them GFs so its really a non-point

Panthera posted...

Except people do. Any time that series allows enemies to have instant death abilities before you can be immune to them it becomes an infamous example of stupid game design. But generally speaking that doesn't happen too often that I can recall, and the main character has the most options by far for keeping himself alive by late in the game. Whereas in FFXIII the first form of the final boss has an instant death ability that you cannot ever be immune to that will hit around half the time even if you resist it and that it can use pretty freely.

I don't remember the first form of the final boss having an instant death move personally. I do remember it has a move where it crashes into the ground and leaves everyone with around 1% hp remaining, but you have enough time afterwards to heal up. It does tend to use it alot though.

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Strider102 posted...

I don't remember the first form of the final boss having an instant death move personally. I do remember it has a move where it crashes into the ground and leaves everyone with around 1% hp remaining, but you have enough time afterwards to heal up. It does tend to use it alot though.

Oh wait it's the second form I'm thinking of. I forgot there were three parts to the fight instead of just two

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Reason I didn't like it?

I found none of the characters likeable or interesting beyond maybe Fang. The narrative was convoluted, but not in an interesting way. It was a frustrating narrative.

Once the game really lets you play with the entire party it becomes fun to play, but it takes 25 hours or so to get there.

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I was looking forward to the game and even liked some aspects. I thought the pace of battles was pretty good and I liked the spin on the job system in terms of doing paradigm shifts. Those things felt fresh. But they made battles boring, bland, and copious enough that the auto feature was needed, and they made them easy enough that auto pretty much beats all fights. That makes any decisions you name in fights feel really really useless.
I was really disappointed with summons. They were super lame and corny, and I would have much preferred summons to be more like Cid was in the same game.

The corridor thing felt a lot more restrictive than FFX for reasons people ITT have already listed. And I was already not liking it back then. XIII had very few side quests both during and at the end of the game. Once you finally got to that big map, there wasn't much there, and the endgame stuff was essentially to go back and fight palette swaps of enemies. At least X put some effort into developing a relationship with all of the different places, whereas XIII more felt like a turn-based DMC on auto pilot.

The plot was really dumb, poorly told, and the characters were incredibly annoying. But I thought that about X, too.

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Hope should have died and his mom should have taken his place in the party

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