Current Events > There's something I NEVER understood about fighting games.

(+) Yeah! (+)

This is mostly Street Fighter, but I'm pretty sure it can be applied to many franchises.

You know how you have different grades of punch and kick, something soft, medium and fierce? What the fuck is the point? I pretty much always just use the fierce version, and not just for regular attacks, but also to pull off the best version of a special move. What am I missing here? I suspect this is actually extremely basic fighting game knowledge, but I must have fallen asleep for that class at school.

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start up and recovery frames.

if you're going for a "fierce" haymaker and i go for a "soft" straight punch to your face, i'll both hit you first as well as recover faster than you.

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Speed.
The stronger attack, the longer it takes to execute and it can be interupted by a quicker attack.

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AsucaHayashi posted...

start up and recovery frames.

if you're going for a haymaker and i go for a straight punch to your face, i'll both hit you first as well as recover faster than you.

This but on top of it, typically the softer moves will be able to combo better whereas the heavier hitting moves hit the opponent too far away and you can't combo as well.

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Light attacks are meant to be faster. Heavy attacks give you power over speed. You surely noticed in some games that doing an all-heavy combo is sometimes much slower to execute, easily to escape.

Some games don't really take advantage of this difference though.

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Heavy versions of special moves are usually more punishable. Ryus mid shoryuken in SF4 can be cancelled on block for 2 bars to prevent the punish, the heavy version deals more damage but doesnt have this option.

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combo capablities. weaker tends to combo into stronger, into a special, into a super

speed and properties. depending on the situation, you'll want to hit a faster button, or maybe a slower and strong button as a meaty or something. throw a slow fireball to set something up, or a fast fireball to force someone to block asap. etc etc.

combo variety. who wants to see the exact same combo every time.

tc it sounds like the fighting game for you is divekick.

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What I've never understood about them is how they're fun. From when i played Mortal Kombat in a SNES as a kid to playing Killer Instinct a few weeks ago, it's never been more than mashing buttons until someone dies.

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you've never understood why fast attacks might be more beneficial to slow ones?

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There are different strengths of normal attacks in fighting games because it adds more levels of complexity to them in various ways....

Light attacks usually have the least range and do the least damage and hitstun, so they are best used in close quarters. They come out the fastest and are generally the safest normals you can use if you aren't sure it will even hit. You can use them as a counterattack to quickly punish a opponent's unsafe attack or a grab attempt, pressure a guarding opponent and possibly condition them to stay on the defensive, which you can capitalize on in various ways, or safely bait them into trying to counter attacking from a guard, and possibly punish them with another counter attack depending on their option.

Medium attacks are the balance between the two other normal attacks, but some have the advantage of having longer range than fierce attacks, while also being a bit more safe. These attacks are generally good at various things, but usually are great when used to try and hit opponents who are a bit further away, or to try and somewhat safely keep advancing opponents at a bit of a distance. They can also be used like light attacks for counter attack punishes and baits.

Fierce attacks may have more range than light and some medium normals and do the most damage and hitstun, but are generally punishable, especially when they miss and usually even when the opponent guards against some.

However, when it comes to aerial attacks the upside and downsides of normal attacks varies greatly....

Light aerial attacks the do the least damage and hitstun, so unless you need a quick attack that beats another aerial opponent's option, or if you need a attack with a hitbox that stays out longer they aren't as worthwhile.

Medium aerial attacks are again the balance between the two, while a bit slower to come out and have a hurtbox that may not last as long they do more damage and have more range.

Heavy aerial attacks are the slowest to come out and their hurtboxes last the smallest amount of time, but they do the most damage and stun making them optimal for punishing vulnerable opponents when jumping in and following up with a combo.

Then there is special moves....

Their strength, recovery time, range and other properties are affected by the strength of the normal attack you use. For example, Ryu's Hadouken from Street Fighter 2 and onward. The Hadouken projectile travels faster across the screen depending on which strength of normal attack you use when inputting it, and in certain games Ryu's recovery time time also increases depending on which strength is used as well. By alternating different strengths of Hadouken you can use it in certain combos, and better pressure your opponent according to their position and Ryu's, and their possible reaction to it.

This way you can make it difficult for them to simply jump over it and punish Ryu. Meaning they could try to jump over it, but they may have to be more cautious if you use the proper Hadouken with Ryu correctly, because in doing so they may possibly get hit and take damage, or have to guard against it and still take reduced damage due to it being a special attack. In certain games, inputing a special move while pressing two or more normal attack buttons, along with having and expending the necessary in game resource requirement(Special gauges, etc.), causes a more powerful version or a special attack or a completely different one to be used.

Lastly, different combinations or normal and special attacks can be linked / chained together to create various combos. This is why there are different types of normal attack inputs in fighting games, why the attacks that come from them and their properties are important to learn, along with how they best function and should be used in various situations.

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If you only use the most power version of Punch and Kick buttons, you will get punished for every move that got blocked.

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The stronger the punch, the slower it is usually is

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NightMarishPie posted...

This but on top of it, typically the softer moves will be able to combo better whereas the heavier hitting moves hit the opponent too far away and you can't combo as well.

This is actually the main thing to me. A light or medium attack will leave you room to combo, juggle, etc. It's visually impressive to knock an enemy across the screen but it means they stop being defenseless.

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SpaceBear_ posted...

What I've never understood about them is how they're fun. From when i played Mortal Kombat in a SNES as a kid to playing Killer Instinct a few weeks ago, it's never been more than mashing buttons until someone dies.

If you just mash you're not playing it right so obviously it isn't fun.

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Good topic

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TC just got wiggity washed.

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sunhawk topic

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ViewtifulGrave posted...

TC just got wiggity washed.

UH wHAT

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SpaceBear_ posted...

What I've never understood about them is how they're fun. From when i played Mortal Kombat in a SNES as a kid to playing Killer Instinct a few weeks ago, it's never been more than mashing buttons until someone dies.

You don't like beating someone ass up through video games?

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If you do this in Tekken, you won't be doing much fighting unless the guy you're playing with just picked up the game like yourself TC

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MC_BatCommander posted...

you've never understood why fast attacks might be more beneficial to slow ones?

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On top of everything else that has been said, there's also consideration for pressure versus what's called resetting to neutral. If somebody is in your face and you need a second to get your bearings a big hit will knock them far away and give you a chance to recover. That's basically resetting to neutral, because both characters are standing up some distance away from each other. That's great if you are being bullied, but not if you are the one trying to apply pressure.

To use Street Fighter as an example, if I am playing Cammy and you are playing Sagat, I had to work my ass off to get close enough to you to hit you. The last thing I want to do is hit you with a move that knocks you across the screen. What I want to do is damage you, then put you in a position where you have to guess what I'm going to do next and if you guess wrong I get another combo.

Some characters in some games also have combos that are called Plus on block. What this means is that I can recover from the combo more quickly than you can recover from your block. That lets me jump into another combo to force you to keep blocking which lets me stay on the offensive. Big hits are generally not Plus on block.

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MC_BatCommander posted...

you've never understood why fast attacks might be more beneficial to slow ones?

sunhawk hasn't thought about anything in his life

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Various buttons on specials are for fine-tuning, with hadoken travel speed being the obvious example.

you never played fighting games

cause if you did then this topic wouldn't exist

or ya did and you felt like posting a nonsense topic

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SpaceBear_ posted...

What I've never understood about them is how they're fun. From when i played Mortal Kombat in a SNES as a kid to playing Killer Instinct a few weeks ago, it's never been more than mashing buttons until someone dies.

That means that both you and the person you're playing against don't know how to play if you're mashing buttons. Playing against someone who knows how to play when you know how to play is really fun. It's trying to outsmart and out-space your opponent and getting through their defense so you can land good hits/combos.

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play a better fighter



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