Current Events > Let's take a look at some statistics about the police, shall we?

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country

Specifically we'll be looking at deaths per 10 million people, so we can get a feel for the company that the US shares

As a baseline, in the US, cops kill 46.6 per 10 million (2019). How do the countries with similar numbers compare?

Democratic Republic of the Congo: 47.8 (2018)
Iraq: 45.1 (2019)
Nigeria: 44.0 (2018)
Kenya: 43.5 (2018)

Well that's weird, those aren't typically the countries you see associated with America. Let's check in on our brothers and sisters in Europe

Germany: 1.3 (2018)
France: 3.8 (2018)
U.K.: 0.5 (2018)

...oh. Oh.

Seems bad, tbh
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The US also has a crazy incarnation rate and recidivism rate

Throwing everyone in prison over and over, then ignoring them, has failed

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Not that this is something to look forward to, but I do wonder what the boiling point is for a radical response from citizens.

I'm not taking about blowing up Wendy's or the precinct, but straight up come for an officer's blood? Like the next time a cop is seen doing some crooked shit or wrongly imposes death on someone, and a few civilians straight mob him/her?

I'd imagine at this point, though, society would be a completely trashed state.

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Guns_of_Verdun posted...

The US also has a crazy incarnation rate and recidivism rate

Throwing everyone in prison over and over, then ignoring them, has failed

Prison is literally the worst place you could put someone if you want to rehabilitate them. Prison culture breeds more criminal behavior, and that's not a bug in the system
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Another interesting one is that US sends out 50,000+ Swat Teams a year

80%+ of these are to execute search warrants for drug offenders, usually pot.

This is a concept that was drawn up to handle bank robberies in progress and active shooters that were beyond the skill capabilities local law enforcement

Now mainly used to round up potheads


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KaZooo posted...

Not that this is something to look forward to, but I do wonder what the boiling point is for a radical response from citizens.

I'm not taking about blowing up Wendy's or the precinct, but straight up come for an officer's blood? Like the next time a cop is seen doing some crooked shit or wrongly imposes death on someone, and a few civilians straight mob him/her?

I'd imagine at this point, though, society would be a completely trashed state.

That day is probably not far off. The pushback has been getting more violent for years now. We're basically seeing what happened in Ferguson turned up to 11 all over the country now

It's only a matter of time before violence becomes an inevitability during civil unrest
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KaZooo posted...

Not that this is something to look forward to, but I do wonder what the boiling point is for a radical response from citizens.

I'm not taking about blowing up Wendy's or the precinct, but straight up come for an officer's blood? Like the next time a cop is seen doing some crooked shit or wrongly imposes death on someone, and a few civilians straight mob him/her?

I'd imagine at this point, though, society would be a completely trashed state.

A cop has already been murdered

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Hmm

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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmvt7yFTtt8

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Another fun one is cops killed vs people cops kill.

2019 you had 48 cops killed during line-of-duty.

vs 1004 killed by cops.

Now avoiding everything else in this topic, avoiding for profit prisons and 13A and just so much more we havent even scratched the surface on... how can you even argue that cops are the ones in threat of danger.

For every cop killed 20 civilians died. Maybe the vast majority of those were active shootouts or something, but its still an absolutely absurd ratio.

This is a whole different topic of discussion, but we need to consider as a society really ensuring officers are ready to go into hostile situations or active danger and remain calm. Idk, like I said its a far far deeper discussion than I want to generate right now, but without really good reason there is no way we should be executing a thousand people without trial or literally anything other than the individual cops judgement.

edit:

cops

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2019-statistics-on-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty

people

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

and

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/four-years-in-a-row-police-nationwide-fatally-shoot-nearly-1000-people/2019/02/07/0cb3b098-020f-11e9-9122-82e98f91ee6f_story.html?outputType=amp


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Zeeak4444 posted...

Now avoiding everything else in this topic, avoiding for profit prisons and 13A and just so much more we havent even scratched the surface on... how can you even argue that cops are the ones in threat of danger.

Well because 48 died and plenty more where put in potentially lethal positions.

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I'm guessing there's an article floating around about this.

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Zeeak4444 posted...

Another fun one is cops killed vs people cops kill.

2019 you had 48 cops killed during line-of-duty.

vs 1004 killed by cops.

Now avoiding everything else in this topic, avoiding for profit prisons and 13A and just so much more we havent even scratched the surface on... how can you even argue that cops are the ones in threat of danger.

For every cop killed 20 civilians died. Maybe the vast majority of those were active shootouts or something, but its still an absolutely absurd ratio.

This is a whole different topic of discussion, but we need to consider as a society really ensuring officers are ready to go into hostile situations or active danger and remain calm. Idk, like I said its a far far deeper discussion than I want to generate right now, but without really good reason there is no way we should be executing a thousand people without trial or literally anything other than the individual cops judgement.

edit:

cops

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2019-statistics-on-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty

people

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

and

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/four-years-in-a-row-police-nationwide-fatally-shoot-nearly-1000-people/2019/02/07/0cb3b098-020f-11e9-9122-82e98f91ee6f_story.html?outputType=amp

I never thought about this ratio, but thanks for putting the numbers together.. really is sobering

One thing to see would be the areas in which they occur most frequently and the crime rates of such areas. If 30-50% happen in high crime areas, the interpretation of the data is a bit skewed.

nemu posted...

One thing to see would be the areas in which they occur most frequently and the crime rates of such areas. If 30-50% happen in high crime areas, the interpretation of the data is a bit skewed.

Which numbers are you saying should be broken down into areas by crime rates? The overall shooting per pop or the police killed by civilians vs civilians killed by police?

Ruvan22 posted...

Which numbers are you saying should be broken down into areas by crime rates? The overall shooting per pop or the police killed by civilians vs civilians killed by police?

Breakdown of police killing civilians/criminals by area, and then relevant statistics to those areas. Basically, if high crime areas account for a the majority of these issues, it doesn't necessarily reflect the whole country. Even removing those, we'd still high on the per capita deaths, but not as high. Such areas are kind of their own thing, where that is just one symptom of a much larger cycle. Solving the issues elsewhere won't necessarily solve the issues in those communities, and solving the issues in those communities won't necessarily solve them elsewhere.

Zeeak4444 posted...

Another fun one is cops killed vs people cops kill.

2019 you had 48 cops killed during line-of-duty.

vs 1004 killed by cops.

Now avoiding everything else in this topic, avoiding for profit prisons and 13A and just so much more we havent even scratched the surface on... how can you even argue that cops are the ones in threat of danger.

For every cop killed 20 civilians died. Maybe the vast majority of those were active shootouts or something, but its still an absolutely absurd ratio.

It is pretty easy to argue. There are roughly 800,000 sworn law enforcement officers in the United States. That means law enforcement officers are killed by civilians at a rate of 0.00625%. There are roughly 329,000,000 civilians in the United States. That means civilians are killed by officers at a rate of 0.0003%. Law enforcement officers have a ~20 times higher chance of being killed by civilians than civilians have of being killed by law enforcement.

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nemu posted...

Breakdown of police killing civilians/criminals by area, and then relevant statistics to those areas. Basically, if high crime areas account for a the majority of these issues, it doesn't necessarily reflect the whole country. Even removing those, we'd still high on the per capita deaths, but not as high. Such areas are kind of their own thing, where that is just one symptom of a much larger cycle. Solving the issues elsewhere won't necessarily solve the issues in those communities, and solving the issues in those communities won't necessarily solve them elsewhere.

I remember you arguing the theme "Let's not do anything until you tell me HOW many bad cops there are" in another topic. Here you bring up the statement "Solving the issues elsewhere won't necessarily solve the issues in those communities, and solving the issues in those communities won't necessarily solve them elsewhere." which is blatantly false - there are LOTS of laws/rules/policies that have been instituted country wide and solved problems in multiple areas without creating significant problems in other areas.

we're a third world country with a gucci belt

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abaddon41_80 posted...

It is pretty easy to argue. There are roughly 800,000 sworn law enforcement officers in the United States. That means law enforcement officers are killed by civilians at a rate of 0.00625%. There are roughly 329,000,000 civilians in the United States. That means civilians are killed by officers at a rate of 0.0003%. Law enforcement officers have a ~20 times higher chance of being killed by civilians than civilians have of being killed by law enforcement.

cool. now do convenience store workers

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KaZooo posted...

Not that this is something to look forward to, but I do wonder what the boiling point is for a radical response from citizens.

I'm not taking about blowing up Wendy's or the precinct, but straight up come for an officer's blood? Like the next time a cop is seen doing some crooked shit or wrongly imposes death on someone, and a few civilians straight mob him/her?

I'd imagine at this point, though, society would be a completely trashed state.

Peter Watts, one of my favourite Science Fiction authors, had an interesting blog post about this a couple years back

https://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=6782

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averagejoel posted...

cool. now do convenience store workers

In 2017, the fatal-injury rate for law-enforcement officers and firefighters in 2017 was 7.7 in other words, for every 100,000 full-time employees working in this sector, 7.7 died on the job because of homicide or other fatal injuries. Out of 100,000 retail workers, 1.6 died because of fatal injuries on the job in 2017.

I am not sure what your point is, though.

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