Current Events > can someone explain the meanings of the surnames -san -chan -senpai etc.

(+) Yeah! (+)

in Japanese

thx

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They're not surnames. They're honorifics.

CommonStar posted...

They're not surnames. They're honorifics.

Surname meaning name said after someone's name.

I'm not talking about a family name.
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Damn_Underscore posted...

Surname meaning name said after someone's name.

I'm not talking about a family name.

That would be a suffix not a surname.

They're honorifics in the style of mr., mrs., and ms. I believe -san and -chan are just things friends call each other. I believe -senpai is used for upperclassmen in high school and teachers and mentors in general. I know -sama refers to gods, but I'm not enough of a weeb to know much outside of that.

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They are different honorifics used for different social situations. Think of them like "Mr.", "Ms.", "Mrs.", etc.

San is the basic version, chan is a child-friendly or "cute" version of san, and senpai is addressing someone with seniority over you, such as in a school setting with multiple grade levels.

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Garioshi posted...

They're honorifics in the style of mr., mrs., and ms. I believe -san and -chan are just things friends call each other. I believe -senpai is used for upperclassmen in high school and teachers and mentors in general. I know -sama refers to gods, but I'm not enough of a weeb to know much outside of that.

sama also means boss or master I think.

CommonStar posted...

That would be a suffix not a surname.

Sur means in addition to.

Name is a name.

So surname is a name said in addition to someone's name, more appropriate than suffix tbh.

Also in Prison School Gakuto referred to names like that as surnames >_>
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-san is respectful, think of it as like the English "Mr/Mrs/Ms"

-chan is sort of affectionate, but in a friendly way? Usually used for someone younger than the speaker. Think it's usually used for girls and very young boys. "-kun" is usually used in a similar way for boys.

-senpai is basically "upperclassmen" and is respectful. "Kohai" in turn is like the younger person between the two. Imagine you had a high school sophomore (the kohai) addressing a high school senior (the senpai). I think it can be used outside of school contexts as well.

-dono is seen kinda rarely, I think it's kind of an archaic honorific.

From what i gathered from persona 5

Kun- male friend?
Chan- female friend?
Senpai- older person or teacher?

For all I know that's all wrong though

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lol Gakuto calls Kyoshi Kyoshi-dono
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I always associated it from my anime watching as:
-san: average adult
-chan: little girl / female friend
-kun: little boy / male friend
-senpai: teacher / master / boss

I just remember the one dude is Yakuza would always refer to the other guy as -chan when he was demeaning him.

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Damn_Underscore posted...

Also in Prison School Gakuto referred to names like that as surnames >_>

In Japan it's common to only address people by their surname. Same deal with China. Especially for people you don't know.

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Damn_Underscore posted...

lol Gakuto calls Kyoshi Kyoshi-dono

I think it has sort of a "lord/lady" vibe to it, as does "-sama"

Don't forget about -tan

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Fenrimis posted...

I always associated it from my anime watching as:
-san: average adult
-chan: little girl / female friend
-kun: little boy / male friend
-senpai: teacher / master / boss

I just remember the one dude is Yakuza would always refer to the other guy as -chan when he was demeaning him.

Generally , except a senior would be senpai. a teacher/master/doctor or whatever would be sensei.

Juniors would be kouhais, but I don't recall ever actually hearing it as one and not sure if it's actually a possible option or not or if chan/kun/san is generally just more preferred. Though I mention it cause senpai/kouhai relation is kind of a thing in a lot of anime stuff..

chan can also be used for pets, which is why Koromaru in Persona 3 is referred to as Koro-chan.

-kun isn't male only either, since a boss might refer to even female employees with that.

-chan also isn't necessarily female and might be used by a girl if really close to a guy.

Tyranthraxus posted...

In Japan it's common to only address people by their surname. Same deal with China. Especially for people you don't know.

No there's a specific scene

Shingo refers to Anzu as just Anzu and Gakuto says "You are already on terms close enough to not warrant suffixes?"
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EnigmaGamer posted...

Generally , except a senior would be senpai. a teacher/master/doctor or whatever would be sensei.

Juniors would be kouhais, but I don't recall ever actually hearing it as one and not sure if it's actually a possible option or not or if chan/kun/san is generally just more preferred. Though I mention it cause senpai/kouhai relation is kind of a thing in a lot of anime stuff..

chan can also be used for pets, which is why Koromaru in Persona 3 is referred to as Koro-chan.

-kun isn't male only either, since a boss might refer to even female employees with that.

-chan also isn't necessarily female and might be used by a girl if really close to a guy.

^_^

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Damn_Underscore posted...

lol Gakuto calls Kyoshi Kyoshi-dono

It is a lower-esteem reference. In that case, probably "you're 'the leader' [-dono]... until 'the boss' [-sama] shows-up."

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Gakuto is weird though. He speaks archaically all the time.
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Kiryu-aniki

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Nobody hear even knows Japanese. Yall play video games and acting up cause you read subs lmfao bust

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-Kush- posted...

Yall play video games and acting up cause you read subs lmfao bust

So long as half-assed fansubbers keep using honorifics for no good reason...

Damn_Underscore posted...

Also in Prison School Gakuto referred to names like that as surnames >_>

I'm willing to bet that a fansubber just didn't know the right words.

chan is generally used for feminine friends. It's also, however, not uncommon for girls and women to use "chan" when referring to male friends, but when used by males for other males, it's seen as rude.

chin, cchi, and tan are also used for female friends, but as far as I can remember, I've only ever seen it used for very close friends (and sometimes girlfriends).

kun is generally used for masculine friends. Not just boys, but also, sometimes, tomgirls. I haven't personally seen it used to demean someone.

san and senpai (sometimes spelled as sempai) are both generally used as a respectful term, like Mr., Mrs., sir, or madam. Senpai is generally how underclassmen would refer to upperclassmen, and san is generally used when talking to people you're not close to.

Sensei is used for a teacher or someone for whom you hold a great deal of respect. You'll often see people refer to their favorite male mangakas and actors as "Araki-sensei". Female actors, especially Idols, are generally referred to with chan, though. (not the Doctor Who character)

I've never seen dono, so it might be a more "traditional" way to refer to people, or a certain dialect.

Also, sometimes, when people are close, they drop the honorifics altogether.

Side note: These rules are all very flexible. Some people also like to generally use "san" for everyone, as a form of respect.

Questionmarktarius posted...

So long as half-assed fansubbers keep using honorifics for no good reason...

Honorifics mean something you idiot. There's always a good reason to include them, since it reflects on the relationship between the characters.
And if you don't use honorifics and there happens to be a plotline centered around characters being upset about being referred to in a certain way, you get some straight nonsense.


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Caroniver posted...

Honorifics mean something you idiot.

Not in English, no.
Then again, a shitty fansub that awkwardly shoves in the few honorifics English does have could be quite amusing.

"Please be gentle, mister tentacle monster, sir."

Questionmarktarius posted...

Not in English, no.
Then again, a shitty fansub that awkwardly shoves in the few honorifics English does have could be quite amusing.

"Please be gentle, mister tentacle monster, sir."

No, they don't mean something in English. Which is why they can't be translated. But they still mean something, so they should still be included.

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Fenrimis posted...

I always associated it from my anime watching as:
-san: average adult
-chan: little girl / female friend
-kun: little boy / male friend
-senpai: teacher / master / boss

I just remember the one dude is Yakuza would always refer to the other guy as -chan when he was demeaning him.

KIRYU-CHAN

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No, he definitely says "Kyoshi-dono"

You can hear it without the subtitles. And if you knew Gakuto from Prison School you would understand.
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Caroniver posted...

Which is why they can't be translated.

if you have to include honorifics, you suck as a translator.

Questionmarktarius posted...

if you have to include honorifics, you suck as a translator.

Alright, how would you simultaneously localize the subs to accurately convey a change or dropping of honorifics between two people while 1) still conveying the intent behind the scene and 2) not drawing the ire of whiny fanboys who think you're "pushing an agenda" by not doing a straight and dry translation.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Caroniver posted...

Which is why they can't be translated.

if you have to include honorifics, you suck as a translator.

It gives context to what their relationship is though.
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_Rinku_ posted...

Alright, how would you simultaneously localize the subs to accurately convey a change or dropping of honorifics between two people while 1) still conveying the intent behind the scene and 2) not drawing the ire of whiny fanboys who think you're "pushing an agenda" by not doing a straight and dry translation.

Let's let ProZD handle this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvNxgHTWIlo

Sama is a more formal version of san or used to address someone of a higher rank.

In anime, they use it to refer to gods and shit because it's anime and that's the situations they're in. In English translations they usually sub in "lord" or "master" or something if that helps. Irl you'd use it to refer to your boss or something though.

Dono is old timey version of pretty much the sane thing. You'll hear it in samurai era stuff or from weirdos in anime.

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Garioshi posted...

They're honorifics in the style of mr., mrs., and ms. I believe -san and -chan are just things friends call each other. I believe -senpai is used for upperclassmen in high school and teachers and mentors in general. I know -sama refers to gods, but I'm not enough of a weeb to know much outside of that.

Sama isn't specfically for gods.

It's used to show a high degree of respect.

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Questionmarktarius posted...

Let's let ProZD handle this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvNxgHTWIlo

So, I think that including some words that have no true equivalent in English/would sound way too awkward in English is fine. Leaving in "senpai" is fine and can usually be understood through context clues. "Nakama" is a bit iffy since you can get pretty close with the word "friend" and the tone of voice used (this is particularly relevant in dubbing). I roll my eyes out of my damn head every time I see "shinkansen" instead of "bullet train" in a sub.

A lot of people don't realize that localization is an art and not a science. Good subtitles are not a straightforward, literal translation (at least in the case of anime and other forms of entertainment).

_Rinku_ posted...

A lot of people don't realize that localization is an art and not a science.

That's fair.