Current Events > Have you heard anyone make the argument that the ORIGINAL FF7 is incomplete?

(+) Yeah! (+)

One of my oldest friends has been arguing this for like 15 years. I didn't understand the plot at the time it came out, but he bases it on some offhand comment he read with one of the developers who said they had other ideas that they wished they could have implemented (which to me just sounds like usual artistic/developmental regrets).

I've tried to say the plot mostly seems to tie everything up, and the English translation making it almost incomprehensible in some parts is the reason everything feels unexplained, and but he'll just do his "nope, they never finished it. It's overrated" spiel.

I understand people feeling as though it's overrated (even though I don't, nor do I even like that term), but it just sounds like he's been doing some mental gymnastics to try and justify why he doesn't like it.

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Hayame Zero posted...

he bases it on some offhand comment he read with one of the developers who said they had other ideas that they wished they could have implemented

Well I suppose that's one way to look at it.

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The narrative does fall apart a bit during the second disc but it's clearly a complete story. I've never heard anyone say otherwise

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How many games actually contain everything the developer wanted to include? There are always cuts made, doesn't always make the game incomplete.
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MC_BatCommander posted...

The narrative does fall apart a bit during the second disc but it's clearly a complete story. I've never heard anyone say otherwise

What's weird is FF8 is one of his favorites. And that one is notorious for its convoluted plot.

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Literally an ending open to interpretation.

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Hayame Zero posted...

What's weird is FF8 is one of his favorites. And that one is notorious for its convoluted plot.

I mean, 8's plot is definitely goofier, but it's not really complicated.

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LordFarquad1312 posted...

Literally an ending open to interpretation.

That's what I've always thought. It's vague, but intentional. I've begun to think he thought it wasn't finished when we first played it when we were kids, and he can't objectively view it as an ambiguous ending, even though he recognizes and is fine with that plot device in adulthood.

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It's incomplete as much as any other game is incomplete in that if the developers had more time and money they would have added more, but things ending on the cutting room floor isn't itself justification for saying a game isn't complete.

Like, we know that Aeris was originally supposed to get revived but they ran out of money. That doesn't mean the game is incomplete.

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It is rare that a game is exactly as the first plans for it.
Things change during development. Things are added, things are removed, things are replaced, some things are like the butterfly effect, make a small change here and there and something else doesnt make sense so it is removed.
And that is not counting stuff that change because of lack of time.
That specific thing could have been one of that developers own idea that got sacked for one or another reason, and if they had included it it might have had something else removed instead of completing it.
Final Fantasy VII is a great example of this, the first draft was set in New York in 1999, it involved blowing up a Mako Reactor and a witch named Edea.
...yeah, it got a lot of changes, and some ideas were reused in Parasite Eve, Final Fantasy VIII and Chrono Trigger.
Other things that changed during development includes Aeris and Sephiroth being lovers, Aeris and Sephiroth being siblings, Jenova was a part in your brain that specific witches could activate to give you powers (you could also cheat by using Mako, which Sephiroth would do, resulting him being addicted to Mako and getting withdrawal symptoms and losing his mind to the pain), the Ancient Forest had a bigger role in the main story, you were able to cast two spells at once because of a status effect, a sidequest involved you travel around the world delivering letters, only three characters in your group would live at the final battle, SOLDIERS would be injected by Ifalnas cells (Aeris mother) instead of Jenova, Sephiroths body would slowly turn female because of Jenovas cells, Vincent would be a supernatural detective who wielded a scythe in battle, Hojo would create two clones of Red XIII that would hunt you during the game, trying to prove that they were superior to the original, Yuffie was an ex-SOLDIER turned bountyhunter that was trying to hunt down Cloud and Sephiroth, Shinra was in a cold war with Wutai which they tried to crush economically so they could build a Mako reactor there, Reeve would turn off all Mako reactors in order to slow down Sephiroth, the Honey Bee Inn got lots of cut content, etc etc.

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That logic is incredibly ludicrous.
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Foppe posted...

It is rare that a game is exactly as the first plans for it.
Things change during development. Things are added, things are removed, things are replaced, some things are like the butterfly effect, make a small change here and there and something else doesnt make sense so it is removed.
And that is not counting stuff that change because of lack of time.
That specific thing could have been one of that developers own idea that got sacked for one or another reason, and if they had included it it might have had something else removed instead of completing it.
Final Fantasy VII is a great example of this, the first draft was set in New York in 1999, it involved blowing up a Mako Reactor and a witch named Edea.
...yeah, it got a lot of changes, and some ideas were reused in Parasite Eve, Final Fantasy VIII and Chrono Trigger.
Other things that changed during development includes Aeris and Sephiroth being lovers, Aeris and Sephiroth being siblings, Jenova was a part in your brain that specific witches could activate to give you powers (you could also cheat by using Mako, which Sephiroth would do, resulting him being addicted to Mako and getting withdrawal symptoms and losing his mind to the pain), the Ancient Forest had a bigger role in the main story, you were able to cast two spells at once because of a status effect, a sidequest involved you travel around the world delivering letters, only three characters in your group would live at the final battle, SOLDIERS would be injected by Ifalnas cells (Aeris mother) instead of Jenova, Sephiroths body would slowly turn female because of Jenovas cells, Vincent would be a supernatural detective who wielded a scythe in battle, Hojo would create two clones of Red XIII that would hunt you during the game, trying to prove that they were superior to the original, Yuffie was an ex-SOLDIER turned bountyhunter that was trying to hunt down Cloud and Sephiroth, Shinra was in a cold war with Wutai which they tried to crush economically so they could build a Mako reactor there, Reeve would turn off all Mako reactors in order to slow down Sephiroth, the Honey Bee Inn got lots of cut content, etc etc.

Damn, some of that shit is pretty cool.
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by that logic every game ever is incomplete

If anything, the original FF7 is too long.

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Sounds like he is a toxic fanboy who will come up with the worst excuses to defend stupid decisions.

IIRC the Watchers of Fate were supposed to have a role in the OG FFVII but ended up getting cut. They were supposed to replace the Sephiroth clones I think?

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Your friend sounds like a bozo. If you want to talk about an incomplete game, from the same era & company eve, look at Xenogears.

FF7 was fine & the ambiguous ending was better before all their spin offs to try to bring in more money.

There is a lot in FF7 that isnt made clear I appreciate remake is clearing up as well as showing characters personality.

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The plot ends, but it doesn't wrap anything up. We only find out about what happens in the immediate aftermath with the sequels that they put out.

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The only thing that I remember bothering me when I played it (granted, this was like 15 years ago) was Gongaga. IIRC, you get one summon then just kinda fuck off.

I would alway check back every now and then to see if anything had changed because it seemed like such a mysterious location at first and became more important throughout the story, but there was never much to do there.

That said, the story did end conclusively for sure.

Alucard188 posted...

The plot ends, but it doesn't wrap anything up.

I wraps up the important thing IMO, which was who the bad blood between Cloud and Seph.

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