Current Events > Why are people saying Last Jedi destroyed Luke's character? *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

1. Luke (like his father) has always shown a proclivity to being assaulted via the mind. His brief flirtation with killing Ben is totally valid, especially since Snoke was manipulating his mind. He did not have years upon years of training from a young age and has no real defense against high level mental manipulation.

2. Luke did what his only two Jedi teachers did when he failed... he ran into exile. While he perhaps became more disillusioned than Obi-Wan or Yoda, they both still had a mission. Luke failed and had no mission. So he did what his other two teachers did... he went into exile and removed himself to contemplate. It is the exact same as Yoda and Obi-Wan, who both only revealed themselves when the time was right.

3. Since Luke had very little formal training, he honestly has very little understanding of how to properly train in the ways of the Jedi. He failed to train Ben, and was now fearful of training Rey. This is consistent with his character.

4. People have complained about how he dealt with the threat at the end. What was he supposed to do? Make the trip to that planet, get murdered, and be a rallying point for the First Order? Instead, know what he did? He faced off against a bunch of Walkers and didn't get touched. He faced off against Kylo Ren, the new master of the First Order, and clowned him. Made him look like a fool. He stalled the First Order long enough for the Resistance to escape, when they were at deaths door. Then he vanished without a trace.

Now he is a rallying point for all force users in the galaxy and the hope for the Resistance. He is a God damn fucking hero twice over, rather than going off to die.

... WTF are people talking about when they say it ruined his character? He wasnt some God of the Force. He was shown plenty of times to have loads of insecurity, impatience, and (like his father) a weakness to mental manipulation. All things that were shown in Last Jedi.

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Reposting this on LL

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Young Luke: I'mma rebuild the Jedi Order

Old Luke: Fuck the Jedi Order

(and yes I did read the whole OP but they chose to to do to his character)


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Because the people who say this want an old man to start doing badass ninja flips and wield ten lightsabers and basically be whatever the EU luke was.

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Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

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Nope.

i refuse to believe that was Luke. Mustve been Clone Luke or someone else who looked like him. Even Mark Hamill was mad about it, and hes a bigger Star Wars nerd than anyone I know.

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NinjaBreakfast posted...

Because the people who say this want an old man to start doing badass ninja flips and wield ten lightsabers and basically be whatever the EU luke was.

Pretty much this. They're mad because Luke isn't Goku.

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They're just mad he's not the same shittily written Gary Stu EU Luke was.

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some people just cant let the past go apparently...

Telling that a lot of these people now love the prequels and see no issue with how yoda is characterised in them

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here's a map to find me if you need me

go away i'm tryna die

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ChrisTaka posted...

Young Luke: I'mma rebuild the Jedi Order

Old Luke: Fuck the Jedi Order

(and yes I did read the whole OP but they chose to to do to his character)

Wow people don't always say what they do and aren't always paragons of truth and order?

Crazy


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Hairistotle posted...

The prequels are legit bad movies. They feel like Star Wars, but who cares since they're bad and boring

TLJ isn't necessarily bad, though it is a movie in which there's no real progress so I'd say that's an issue.

I just wish TLJ haters weren't collectively written off as "your theory didnt pan out so you hate it" or "Luke wasn't a god so you hate it" or "you hate women and this movie has women in it so you hate it"

Oh TLJ has problems, absolutely. It is not a perfect film, not even a great film. I would argue only Empire is a great film, and maybe New Hope. Beyond that, each Star Wars film has had problems.

I just cannot understand how people think Luke was the problem in Last Jedi.

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He spent years training with Yoda.

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pauIie posted...

here's a map to find me if you need me

go away i'm tryna die

Where was it stated that Luke left that map intentionally?

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CountDog posted...

He spent years training with Yoda.

Canon I believe it is less than a year.

Besides, remember that Yoda is not in favor of training older pupils and states his training is incomplete before facing Vader. Luke never has training with Yoda again.

Yoda tells him his training is complete, but Yoda literally dies minutes later. Yoda couldn't really give him more training anyways.

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BLAKUboy posted...

Where was it stated that Luke left that map intentionally?

its been a while since i watched tfa but wasn't that like a whole ass plot? them trying to put together the map to find luke? and piece of it being in r2d2, luke's droid, or some such?

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the OT sets up luke as the ultimate hero, he grows from a bored teen longing for adventure to the last jedi master, the guy who takes down the evil empire. he has a very good & complete arc, so making him into this kind of grumpy reclusive guy who almost murdered kylo ren feels out of place.

much like most other things in the disney trilogy, there is nothing "luke" about TLJ luke skywalker. you could make him any other jedi master type character and everything would be the same, there's nothing really accounting for luke's background or journey from the previous trilogy. personally if i was the TLJ writer i wouldnt have even included luke in the new movies (or any of the old farts from the OT), make him a distant memory of heroism

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Hairistotle posted...

why would he leave a map at all if he didnt want to be found?

Look at what his only two masters did. They left the universe largely behind, but emerged to help when the situation called for it. Yeah, Luke wanted to be left alone but he also followed in the footsteps of his masters before him.

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ChrisTaka posted...

Young Luke: I'mma rebuild the Jedi Order

Old Luke: Fuck the Jedi Order

(and yes I did read the whole OP but they chose to to do to his character)

You are missing the bit in between where he tries and fails to rebuild the Jedi Order.

pauIie posted...

its been a while since i watched tfa but wasn't that like a whole ass plot? them trying to put together the map to find luke? and piece of it being in r2d2, luke's droid, or some such?

It was, but it was never stated Luke put the map together himself rather than just people tracing his journey. I also believe it wasn't stated where R2 got his portion, with the only mention of the rest of the map prior to him rebooting was that the First Order had it.

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Romulox28 posted...

the OT sets up luke as the ultimate hero, he grows from a bored teen longing for adventure to the last jedi master, the guy who takes down the evil empire. he has a very good & complete arc, so making him into this kind of grumpy reclusive guy who almost murdered kylo ren feels out of place.

much like most other things in the disney trilogy, there is nothing "luke" about TLJ luke skywalker. you could make him any other jedi master type character and everything would be the same, there's nothing really accounting for luke's background or journey from the previous trilogy. personally if i was the TLJ writer i wouldnt have even included luke in the new movies (or any of the old farts from the OT), make him a distant memory of heroism

This is also fair. While I felt that his actions were echoes from Obi-Wan and Yoda's actions, I can understand why some people would want Luke to be better than that. Personally I love the face Luke still retains some of his foibles from the OT. It wasnt like they went away, they are still a part of who he is.

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ChrisTaka posted...

Old Luke: Fuck the Jedi Order

Did you even watch the movie

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Hairistotle posted...

they left because a billion man army slaughtered every jedi except for them and the sith had completely won. luke just gave up

also this doesnt really answer the question imo. he was adamant about not wanting to have been found (i picked the most unfindable place in the galaxy or w/e he says)

so why'd he leave a map?

At first he picked that place due to its connection with The Force. He didnt want to be found by TLJ because he became disillusioned with training Jedi.

I'm pretty sure if it had been his sister who showed up instead of a force sensitive person, he would have been far less curmudgeonly.

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EvenSpoonier posted...

Pretty much this. They're mad because Luke isn't Goku.

No. Were mad because Luke isnt Luke.

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Also there were plenty of other Jedi who survived Order 66. Yoda definitely gave up, and Obi-Wan just went to look after Luke.

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YourDrunkFather posted...

No. Were mad because Luke isnt Luke.

In what way? If you feel my original post is lacking in ways his actions reflect his past characterization, I would enjoy reading about it. :)

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Lol yeah at the end of the prequels they're just like fuck this for sure.

It's amazing how trying to add a bit of added humanity to a character is seen as ruining them. Luke conquered every self doubt and internal issue by the end of ROTJ, his personalty must be as smooth as a marble and that's it!

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"Luke sacrifice his life to continue the jedis. Why he hate the jedis"

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I might just murder my relative in his sleep!
BZZZZZZZ!
No, wait, this is totally what it looks like!
BEN!

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About Luke almost killing Ben, he is told repeatedly by his Masters to use the Force and feel it, trust it.

At that moment the Force was telling him to stop this threat. Yes he was clouded by fear, which is something he has had happen before. Snoke was also manipulating events.

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BLAKUboy posted...

It was, but it was never stated Luke put the map together himself rather than just people tracing his journey. I also believe it wasn't stated where R2 got his portion, with the only mention of the rest of the map prior to him rebooting was that the First Order had it.

oh ok.

i actually liked grumpy luke in tlj i just wish he didn't die, at least until the final of the trilogy.

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Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

About Luke almost killing Ben, he is told repeatedly by his Masters to use the Force and feel it, trust it.

At that moment the Force was telling him to stop this threat. Yes he was clouded by fear, which is something he has had happen before. Snoke was also manipulating events.

And on an even more basic level, Luke is allowed to have doubt and fuck up. Holding him to some perfect inhuman standard is stupid and uninteresting

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Honestly, him throwing away the lightsaber is one of the better SW moments.

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"Did you come back to say you forgive me?"

"No."



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I wish that he discussed Han a little bit more. One of his best friends gets killed by the apprentice he failed and all we get is a one off Wheres Han? Makes it seem like he doesnt even care about it. And I know there was a deleted scene with Luke mourning him but it shouldve stayed in.


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ThunderTrain posted...

I wish that he discussed Han a little bit more. One of his best friends gets killed by the apprentice he failed and all we get is a one off Wheres Han? Makes it seem like he doesnt even care about it. And I know there was a deleted scene with Luke mourning him but it shouldve stayed in.

The scene with Luke on the Falcon says a lot imo

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NinjaBreakfast posted...

Because the people who say this want an old man to start doing badass ninja flips and wield ten lightsabers and basically be whatever the EU luke was.

What is Yoda in episodes 2 and 3?

The whole point of episode 7 was that both the resistance AND the First Order were trying to find Luke as if he was the key to the whole war. But much like the entirety of episode 8, Rian Johnson just took a piss out of Abrahams ideas.

Can't wait to see how Abrahams tries to piss farther than Johnson in episode 9

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I rather liked it myself.

I get that he's regressed a lot since episode 6, which evidently wasn't what people wanted, but I felt like it added depth to his character, especially since he has a satisfying maturation arc too.

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LordFarquad1312 posted...

What is Yoda in episodes 2 and 3?

One of the greatest Jedi in the history of the Order using abilities only he has?

Only Mace Windu was said to be a stronger combatant and he uses a style that dips him into the Dark Side.

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LordFarquad1312 posted...

What is Yoda in episodes 2 and 3?

Terribly characterised and also cgi. Why do you ask?

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