Current Events > Wait, so does Terminator 3 COMPLETELY ignore what happened in T2? *SPOILERS*

(+) Yeah! (+)

At least in Dark Fate, they acknowledge that the events of T2 DID erase Skynet from existence, which meant John was no longer the leader of the resistance and another company called Legion did something similar to Skynet and Judgment Day still happened but in a different way and someone else (Dani) became the savior of humanity. But the events of T2 did significantly alter the original timeline.

In Terminator 3 it seems like the EXACT same thing that was originally foretold in Terminator 1 still happened with the exact same company in the exact same way, just 6 years later.
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I dunno, maybe Rotm basically said the events of t2 didn't end things and just merely delayed them? DF retcons it and all the other movies after
T2 anyway

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The problem is that Dark Fate is a steaming turd.

T3 is consistent with T2. They were just mistaken about destroying Skynet, and stopping Judgement Day.
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as cheesy as it is, just pretend the alternate ending to T2 is the canon ending and ignore the rest of the franchise
its better that way
even if T3 is the most passable of the bad movies
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Right. I think the T800 in T3 says they only delayed judgment day. But if the timeline was changed in T2 what was the purpose of killing John Connor if Dani is now the savior? If they meant for Sarah to train Dani now, shouldn't Carl have killed Sarah as well?
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Dark Fate was meant as a shot at Terminator 3, but T2 got caught in the crossfire.

The boring copout is the hypothesis that time traveling creates multiple universes, so ALL the timelines DO happen.

Loud_Pipes posted...

The problem is that Dark Fate is a steaming turd.

Im SO sorry that women and minorities take the place of white men, im here if you need to talk about it. :(
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yusiko posted...

as cheesy as it is, just pretend the alternate ending to T2 is the canon ending and ignore the rest of the franchise
its better that way
even if T3 is the most passable of the bad movies

Funny how T3, despite being pretty bad, was the best of the 3 sequels to T2(T3, Salvation and Genesys)

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EffectAndCause posted...

Loud_Pipes posted...

The problem is that Dark Fate is a steaming turd.

Im SO sorry that women and minorities take the place of white men, im here if you need to talk about it. :(

Who gives a shit about that? The movie was just awful in general. And Arnold still had to save the day at the end so not sure what you're on about.

Sunhawk posted...

T3 is consistent with T2. They were just mistaken about destroying Skynet, and stopping Judgement Day.

So, again, according to T3 nothing they did in T2 mattered at all. Literally the only difference was:

1. John has met a Terminator before instead of just being told about it by his mom.
2. A white guy runs Skynet instead of a black guy.
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ZEROWOLF posted...

Right. I think the T800 in T3 says they only delayed judgment day. But if the timeline was changed in T2 what was the purpose of killing John Connor if Dani is now the savior? If they meant for Sarah to train Dani now, shouldn't Carl have killed Sarah as well?

I think it's realistic that The Resistance doesn't depend on one single human being to lead them, or all is lost. If you kill a leader, someone else will step up to take his place.
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EffectAndCause posted...

Loud_Pipes posted...

The problem is that Dark Fate is a steaming turd.

Im SO sorry that women and minorities take the place of white men, im here if you need to talk about it. :(

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The movie would have been better without Arnold and with John replacing Sarah IMO.

But not like a bad ass. He should have been a washed up loser who just happens to work with Dani or something. The Terminator shows up and he thinks it's after him, and Dani somehow gets dragged along with him while he flee's and then Grace shows up and saves them and then it's like plot twist, you're not the savior of humanity anymor John it was trying to kill her.

And then like, in the end, he is the one who has to get her ready for Judgement Day, taking on the role his mother had with him.

The movie itself is...okay outside of the dumb shit with shoehorning Arnie and old lady Linda Hamilton.
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^ I wouldve supported this if both of our best choices to play present day John Connor (Edward Furlong and Nick Stahl) werent both right now, at the same time, drug addicts in and out of rehab.

I couldnt get used to any more John Connors after T3.
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Was T3 really that bad or is it just part of that recent nerd trend of taking things to the extreme and treating a merely inferior sequel as if it were a steaming pile? Saw the movie when it came out and remember it as a decent a action movie.
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As an actual movie, and even a Terminator movie, I thought T3 was great. But it crapped all over and ignored the events of T2 the most. They shouldve had T2 matter more, even if the entire movie generally went the same as it did.

At least Dark Fate had significant changes happen to the timeline as a result of T2.
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Dark Fate and T3 just don't operate off the same axioms. In Dark Fate, the events of T2 directly avert Judgement Day and Skynet's existence permanently. It's not explained why, but I'm guessing it's because Miles Dyson was killed along with his research being destroyed, creating an entirely new timeline. Despite this, the Terminators Skynet sent to the past still exist (they have to, otherwise it would cause a bootstrap paradox) and the T-800 sent to kill John Connor after the T-1000 kills him. Judgement Day has been permanently averted in this timeline, so John Connor dying still doesn't mean Skynet exists. Legion comes out of this timeline because ??? (will probably be explained in a later movie if there is a later movie).

In T3, the events of T2 just delay Judgement Day because it gets picked up by the US government (which is a pretty good explanation as to how Skynet had access to nukes). John Connor is killed by the T-850, however, which didn't happen in Genisys, which supposedly follows the events of T1, and T4 (which appears not to follow the events of T2, as John doesn't appear to recognize the T-800) up until John gets fucked by the T-5000, which is apparently a branch from the original reality in which Skynet is outright defeated. Since the T-850 could not exist, as Skynet was destroyed before it could make anything after the T-800, this means that the future of T3 is completely different from the future of T2 (where the T-800 and the T-1000 come from), meaning it created a branching timeline from T2. However, if T3 is a branching timeline from T2 (where Katherine is John's wife and John is killed by a T-850), which is a branching timeline from T1 and T4, then why the fuck is Katherine Brewster still John's wife in T4, when his wife would surely be different after a timeline change? I've tried rationalizing this to the best of my ability, but it makes absolutely no sense.

That being said, every single Terminator sequel, including T2, fucks up the time travel continuity from T1, because T1's time travel was a nice and simple closed time loop.
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Different splitting timelines.

In the original Terminator, Skynet is a revolutionary artificial intelligence system built by Cyberdyne Systems for SAC-NORAD.
In Terminator 2, Cyberdyne Systems recovers Terminator technology from the one sent back in time in the first movie, which they use to build new advanced stealth fleet and missile defense systems, and later base an AI on it.
In Terminator 3, Skynet is being made by U.S. Air Force's Cyber Research Systems (CRS) after the destruction of Cyberdyne Systems, based on off site backupfiles from Cyberdyne Systems. It turned into a botnet and infected every networked machine in the world.

If we look at them, then we should realize that they are 3 different AIs that use the same codename.
The first one was built from scratch. This started a nuclear war against humanity.
The second one was based on the first one. This launched a nuclear attack against Soviet, expecting them to respong with more nukes.
The third one is based on early data from the second one and the first one. This one attacked all humanity with all nukes it had access to.

In Salvation, it seems to have knowledge about the future roles of Kyle Reese and John Connor, so it might have had access to a future version of itself or at least data from the future.
In Genisys, a sophisticated variant of Skynet from an unknown origin plants itself into an advanced T-5000 Terminator, goes back in time to 2029, infiltrates the Resistance and most likely replaces that timelines Skynet with itself.
In Dark Fate, those off site backupfiles from Cyberdyne Systems never existed or were never recovered, and the CRS never built an AI. That means that Skynet was never created. But it had already sent back multiple different Terminators back in time, which remained intact, following the orders of an AI that no longer existed.
Another AI named Legion was created later, which might or might not be based on any earlier Skynet data, and it decided to start a cyber warfare against humanity. Humanity responded by trying to nuke it, and failed. Legion developed its own version of the Terminator technology called REV. So if we dont count the Skynet in Salvation and Genisys as new ones, then Legion is basically the fourth Skynet, but it is the third one in its own timeline.

...well, we got another one from Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles as well...
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Dark Fate did it right as far as narrative is concerned.

Unfortunately, it is too little too late for this franchise.
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I'm just amazed at all these people who went into an action movie and got an action movie. Were they really expecting a masterpiece? Were they expecting Shakespeare?

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EffectAndCause posted...

But it crapped all over and ignored the events of T2 the most. They shouldve had T2 matter more, even if the entire movie generally went the same as it did.

This is a totally fair point regardless of the quality of T3.
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I just think its funny how T2 ended on a high note and Dark Fate starts off almost immediately where it left off and does a complete 180.
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