Current Events > Is it unfair to judge historical figures by today's moral standards?

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Orlando_Jordan 12/19/18 6:51:41 PM #1:	Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. But that was the norm for his time. It's a bad thing, yes, but does that make the man himself pure evil? --- High-IQ <cite>Orlando_Jordan posted [p:914411192] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote>Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. But that was the norm for his time. It's a bad thing, yes, but does that make the man himself pure evil?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Crepes 12/19/18 6:53:10 PM #2:	Orlando_Jordan posted... Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. But that was the norm for his time. It's a bad thing, yes, but does that make the man himself pure evil? Depends on if their politics align with my own or not. --- Praxis Makes Perfect The only intelligent tactical response to life's horror is to laugh defiantly at it. ~Soren Kierkegaard <cite>Crepes posted [p:914411279] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>Orlando_Jordan posted...</cite> <quote>Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. But that was the norm for his time. It's a bad thing, yes, but does that make the man himself pure evil?</quote> Depends on if their politics align with my own or not.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
frogman_295 12/19/18 6:53:11 PM #3:	pure evil? lol no --- Pastor of Muppets <cite>frogman_295 posted [p:914411280] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote>pure evil? lol no</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DarkTransient 12/19/18 6:53:26 PM #4:	Depends what we're talking about. That example you give, probably not fair to judge. Someone like Hitler, absolutely fair. More importantly, just because they did bad stuff doesn't negate any of the good they did. You can praise someone for good and criticize the same person for bad. --- https://imgtc.com/i/0mboxsZ.png <-- Tiamat is best babe, if you disagree you're objectively wrong. https://tinyurl.com/dtlamulana2 <-- La-Mulana 2 LP <cite>DarkTransient posted [p:914411291] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote>Depends what we're talking about. That example you give, probably not fair to judge. Someone like Hitler, absolutely fair. More importantly, just because they did bad stuff doesn't negate any of the good they did. You can praise someone for good and criticize the same person for bad.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zikten 12/19/18 6:54:11 PM #5:	nearly all people in human history would be deemed evil by 2018 standards. so no. <cite>Zikten posted [p:914411327] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote>nearly all people in human history would be deemed evil by 2018 standards. so no.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Vertania 12/19/18 6:56:06 PM #6:	Yes. <cite>Vertania posted [p:914411419] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote>Yes.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Esrac 12/19/18 7:34:15 PM #7:	Yes. Especially if you consider moral progress to be a work in, well, progress. --- http://steamcommunity.com/id/Esrac/wishlist/ <cite>Esrac posted [p:914413278] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote>Yes. Especially if you consider moral progress to be a work in, well, progress.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MedeaLysistrata 12/19/18 7:35:22 PM #8:	history judges ideas, not individuals ooOOoOOooo --- object oriented intimacy <cite>MedeaLysistrata posted [p:914413323] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote>history judges ideas, not individuals ooOOoOOooo</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antifar 12/19/18 7:38:19 PM #9:	It was not the norm of the time, though. There was intense opposition to slavery, even in the 18th century. --- kin to all that throbs <cite>Antifar posted [p:914413464] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote>It was not the norm of the time, though. There was intense opposition to slavery, even in the 18th century.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HylianFox 12/19/18 7:39:05 PM #10:	Sure, why not --- I like my beer cold, my TV loud, and my homosexuals FUH-LAMING! - Homer Simpson Don't be a turd. - Chris Pratt <cite>HylianFox posted [p:914413489] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote>Sure, why not</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
A_Good_Boy 12/19/18 7:39:33 PM #11:	Idk man, why not ask the slaves how they felt about Jefferson owning them. --- Who is? I am! <cite>A_Good_Boy posted [p:914413514] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote>Idk man, why not ask the slaves how they felt about Jefferson owning them.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Giblet_Enjoyer 12/19/18 7:39:53 PM #12:	Nah, not really. We should have higher expectations for ourselves, tbh --- He which make friends with scorpion, soon come to find out what a scorpion does - they bite people with its tail --ancient Chinese proverb <cite>Giblet_Enjoyer posted [p:914413532] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote>Nah, not really. We should have higher expectations for ourselves, tbh</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
stone 12/19/18 7:40:37 PM #13:	Zikten posted... nearly all people in human history would be deemed evil by 2018 standards. so no. And nearly all people from 2018 would be deemed evil by those historical figures' standards. --- PONG WAS REAL? I thought that was just a story parents told kids to scare them <cite>stone posted [p:914413551] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>Zikten posted...</cite> <quote>nearly all people in human history would be deemed evil by 2018 standards. so no.</quote> And nearly all people from 2018 would be deemed evil by those historical figures' standards.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
A_Good_Boy 12/19/18 7:41:27 PM #14:	stone posted... Zikten posted... nearly all people in human history would be deemed evil by 2018 standards. so no. And nearly all people from 2018 would be deemed evil by those historical figures' standards. Seems like the GOP shouldn't have gone on record talking shit about sexual abuse victims if they didn't want to be judged so harshly in the future. --- Who is? I am! <cite>A_Good_Boy posted [p:914413591] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>stone posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Zikten posted...</cite> <quote> nearly all people in human history would be deemed evil by 2018 standards. so no.</quote> And nearly all people from 2018 would be deemed evil by those historical figures' standards.</quote> Seems like the GOP shouldn't have gone on record talking shit about sexual abuse victims if they didn't want to be judged so harshly in the future.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Orlando_Jordan 12/19/18 7:42:06 PM #15:	Giblet_Enjoyer posted... Nah, not really. We should have higher expectations for ourselves, tbh But even Mahatma Gandhi, a very progressive man for his time, held racist views. I don't think any historical figure can live up to today's moral standards. --- High-IQ <cite>Orlando_Jordan posted [p:914413626] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>Giblet_Enjoyer posted...</cite> <quote>Nah, not really. We should have higher expectations for ourselves, tbh</quote> But even Mahatma Gandhi, a very progressive man for his time, held racist views. I don't think any historical figure can live up to today's moral standards.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Vita_Aeterna 12/19/18 7:44:32 PM #16:	All I know is don't put any historical figure on a pedestal. --- "Death is so terribly final, while life is full of possibilities." <cite>Vita_Aeterna posted [p:914413739] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote>All I know is don't put any historical figure on a pedestal.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MaverickXeo 12/19/18 7:45:13 PM #17:	Morals are simply defined by the society, so no, we should not hold these figures up to today's standards at all. --- --- MaverickXeo --- <cite>MaverickXeo posted [p:914413774] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote>Morals are simply defined by the society, so no, we should not hold these figures up to today's standards at all.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe_stalin518 12/19/18 7:45:16 PM #18:	Orlando_Jordan posted... Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. But that was the norm for his time. It's a bad thing, yes, but does that make the man himself pure evil? Actually he was giving those slaves by his father in law and supposedly never bought a single one, and he didn't let them just go because then they would have been caught , he also had Elizabeth hemming buried next to him cause he saw her as family. He also started the great U.S. navy we have today --- how does super mario world work without updates? Relax I know what I'm doing,I been killing topics since 1987 <cite>joe_stalin518 posted [p:914413778] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>Orlando_Jordan posted...</cite> <quote>Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. But that was the norm for his time. It's a bad thing, yes, but does that make the man himself pure evil?</quote> Actually he was giving those slaves by his father in law and supposedly never bought a single one, and he didn't let them just go because then they would have been caught , he also had Elizabeth hemming buried next to him cause he saw her as family. He also started the great U.S. navy we have today</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 12/19/18 7:45:18 PM #19:	Not at all It's important to be aware of the evils of our past that were acceptable and to never relent and bring them back --- Pew pew! <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:914413780] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote>Not at all It's important to be aware of the evils of our past that were acceptable and to never relent and bring them back</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ConfessPlease 12/19/18 7:46:55 PM #20:	Vertania posted... Yes. We're already at the point where even Gandhi - arguably the most famous peace activist in the world - is being protested against. It's fucking ridiculous. What he do? --- The Heart Wants What It Wants <cite>ConfessPlease posted [p:914413856] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>Vertania posted...</cite> <quote>Yes. We're already at the point where even Gandhi - arguably the most famous peace activist in the world - is being protested against. It's fucking ridiculous.</quote> What he do?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ryuko_Chan 12/19/18 7:48:10 PM #21:	ConfessPlease posted... Vertania posted... Yes. We're already at the point where even Gandhi - arguably the most famous peace activist in the world - is being protested against. It's fucking ridiculous. What he do? he was racist and a pedophile bro literally had little girls sleep in his bed with him to prove how woke he was --- https://i.imgtc.com/LCLKlZX.gif Life Fiber Kamui SENKETSU! <cite>Ryuko_Chan posted [p:914413914] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>ConfessPlease posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Vertania posted...</cite> <quote>Yes. We're already at the point where even Gandhi - arguably the most famous peace activist in the world - is being protested against. It's fucking ridiculous.</quote> What he do?</quote> he was racist and a pedophile bro literally had little girls sleep in his bed with him to prove how woke he was</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Esrac 12/19/18 7:48:20 PM #22:	joe_stalin518 posted... Orlando_Jordan posted... Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. But that was the norm for his time. It's a bad thing, yes, but does that make the man himself pure evil? Actually he was giving those slaves by his father in law and supposedly never bought a single one, and he didn't let them just go because then they would have been caught , he also had Elizabeth hemming buried next to him cause he saw her as family. He also started the great U.S. navy we have today I think you're confusing Jefferson with John Adam's regarding the part about the Navy. --- http://steamcommunity.com/id/Esrac/wishlist/ <cite>Esrac posted [p:914413919] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>joe_stalin518 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Orlando_Jordan posted...</cite> <quote>Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. But that was the norm for his time. It's a bad thing, yes, but does that make the man himself pure evil?</quote> Actually he was giving those slaves by his father in law and supposedly never bought a single one, and he didn't let them just go because then they would have been caught , he also had Elizabeth hemming buried next to him cause he saw her as family. He also started the great U.S. navy we have today</quote> I think you're confusing Jefferson with John Adam's regarding the part about the Navy.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Bloodychess 12/19/18 7:48:22 PM #23:	The thing about the "No" crowd is that some of them seem more eager to judge certain people and try to direct discussion away from others --- To err is human To arr is pirate <cite>Bloodychess posted [p:914413922] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote>The thing about the "No" crowd is that some of them seem more eager to judge certain people and try to direct discussion away from others</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
A_Good_Boy 12/19/18 7:51:30 PM #24:	Bloodychess posted... The thing about the "No" crowd is that some of them seem more eager to judge certain people and try to direct discussion away from others Did you know Muhammed had a child bride and that's terrible. Did you know Jefferson fucked his slaves but he shouldn't be judged for it. --- Who is? I am! <cite>A_Good_Boy posted [p:914414066] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>Bloodychess posted...</cite> <quote>The thing about the "No" crowd is that some of them seem more eager to judge certain people and try to direct discussion away from others</quote> Did you know Muhammed had a child bride and that's terrible. Did you know Jefferson fucked his slaves but he shouldn't be judged for it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe_stalin518 12/19/18 7:53:39 PM #25:	Esrac posted... joe_stalin518 posted... Orlando_Jordan posted... Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. But that was the norm for his time. It's a bad thing, yes, but does that make the man himself pure evil? Actually he was giving those slaves by his father in law and supposedly never bought a single one, and he didn't let them just go because then they would have been caught , he also had Elizabeth hemming buried next to him cause he saw her as family. He also started the great U.S. navy we have today I think you're confusing Jefferson with John Adam's regarding the part about the Navy. I got my information from a book called Thomas Jefferson and the Tripoli pirates Don't know if this helps --- how does super mario world work without updates? Relax I know what I'm doing,I been killing topics since 1987 <cite>joe_stalin518 posted [p:914414158] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>Esrac posted...</cite> <quote><cite>joe_stalin518 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Orlando_Jordan posted...</cite> <quote>Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. But that was the norm for his time. It's a bad thing, yes, but does that make the man himself pure evil?</quote> Actually he was giving those slaves by his father in law and supposedly never bought a single one, and he didn't let them just go because then they would have been caught , he also had Elizabeth hemming buried next to him cause he saw her as family. He also started the great U.S. navy we have today</quote> I think you're confusing Jefferson with John Adam's regarding the part about the Navy.</quote> I got my information from a book called Thomas Jefferson and the Tripoli pirates Don't know if this helps</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Bloodychess 12/19/18 7:53:55 PM #26:	A_Good_Boy posted... Bloodychess posted... The thing about the "No" crowd is that some of them seem more eager to judge certain people and try to direct discussion away from others Did you know Muhammed had a child bride and that's terrible. Did you know Jefferson fucked his slaves but he shouldn't be judged for it. He gets it --- To err is human To arr is pirate <cite>Bloodychess posted [p:914414173] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>A_Good_Boy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Bloodychess posted...</cite> <quote>The thing about the "No" crowd is that some of them seem more eager to judge certain people and try to direct discussion away from others</quote> Did you know Muhammed had a child bride and that's terrible. Did you know Jefferson fucked his slaves but he shouldn't be judged for it.</quote> He gets it</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Esrac 12/19/18 7:59:19 PM #27:	joe_stalin518 posted... Esrac posted... joe_stalin518 posted... Orlando_Jordan posted... Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. But that was the norm for his time. It's a bad thing, yes, but does that make the man himself pure evil? Actually he was giving those slaves by his father in law and supposedly never bought a single one, and he didn't let them just go because then they would have been caught , he also had Elizabeth hemming buried next to him cause he saw her as family. He also started the great U.S. navy we have today I think you're confusing Jefferson with John Adam's regarding the part about the Navy. I got my information from a book called Thomas Jefferson and the Tripoli pirates Don't know if this helps John Adam's signed the act that established the Department of the Navy. And before that he lead arguments in the establishment of the continental Navy during the revolution. https://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=49113 https://projectjohnadams.weebly.com/creation-of-us-navy.html --- http://steamcommunity.com/id/Esrac/wishlist/ <cite>Esrac posted [p:914414388] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>joe_stalin518 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Esrac posted...</cite> <quote><cite>joe_stalin518 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Orlando_Jordan posted...</cite> <quote>Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. But that was the norm for his time. It's a bad thing, yes, but does that make the man himself pure evil?</quote> Actually he was giving those slaves by his father in law and supposedly never bought a single one, and he didn't let them just go because then they would have been caught , he also had Elizabeth hemming buried next to him cause he saw her as family. He also started the great U.S. navy we have today</quote> I think you're confusing Jefferson with John Adam's regarding the part about the Navy.</quote> I got my information from a book called Thomas Jefferson and the Tripoli pirates Don't know if this helps</quote> John Adam's signed the act that established the Department of the Navy. And before that he lead arguments in the establishment of the continental Navy during the revolution. https://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=49113 https://projectjohnadams.weebly.com/creation-of-us-navy.html</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe_stalin518 12/19/18 8:00:04 PM #28:	A_Good_Boy posted... Bloodychess posted... The thing about the "No" crowd is that some of them seem more eager to judge certain people and try to direct discussion away from others Did you know Muhammed had a child bride and that's terrible. Did you know Jefferson fucked his slaves but he shouldn't be judged for it. He didn't rape her , he brought her to Paris france and gave her the option to leave but she didn't want to. You ever see a rapist have his victims buried in his families grave site --- how does super mario world work without updates? Relax I know what I'm doing,I been killing topics since 1987 <cite>joe_stalin518 posted [p:914414415] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>A_Good_Boy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Bloodychess posted...</cite> <quote>The thing about the "No" crowd is that some of them seem more eager to judge certain people and try to direct discussion away from others</quote> Did you know Muhammed had a child bride and that's terrible. Did you know Jefferson fucked his slaves but he shouldn't be judged for it.</quote> He didn't rape her , he brought her to Paris france and gave her the option to leave but she didn't want to. You ever see a rapist have his victims buried in his families grave site</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Esrac 12/19/18 8:02:31 PM #29:	joe_stalin518 posted... A_Good_Boy posted... Bloodychess posted... The thing about the "No" crowd is that some of them seem more eager to judge certain people and try to direct discussion away from others Did you know Muhammed had a child bride and that's terrible. Did you know Jefferson fucked his slaves but he shouldn't be judged for it. He didn't rape her , he brought her to Paris france and gave her the option to leave but she didn't want to. You ever see a rapist have his victims buried in his families grave site That's not quite right. It would be more accurate to say that, in France, she could have left his service at will and he begged her to stay. --- http://steamcommunity.com/id/Esrac/wishlist/ <cite>Esrac posted [p:914414523] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>joe_stalin518 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>A_Good_Boy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Bloodychess posted...</cite> <quote>The thing about the "No" crowd is that some of them seem more eager to judge certain people and try to direct discussion away from others</quote> Did you know Muhammed had a child bride and that's terrible. Did you know Jefferson fucked his slaves but he shouldn't be judged for it.</quote> He didn't rape her , he brought her to Paris france and gave her the option to leave but she didn't want to. You ever see a rapist have his victims buried in his families grave site</quote> That's not quite right. It would be more accurate to say that, in France, she could have left his service at will and he begged her to stay.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ImmatureContent 12/19/18 8:02:38 PM #30:	I would say moral relativism has some legitimate talking points. If you actually think you would hold the exact same views and opinions that you do now, had you been born in a different time and culture, you are deluding yourself. That doesn't make it right or okay. But that is human nature. It is fine to hold someone accountable for their actions, but you have to look at it in context. --- NinjaMaster <cite>ImmatureContent posted [p:914414529] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote>I would say moral relativism has some legitimate talking points. If you actually think you would hold the exact same views and opinions that you do now, had you been born in a different time and culture, you are deluding yourself. That doesn't make it right or okay. But that is human nature. It is fine to hold someone accountable for their actions, but you have to look at it in context.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe_stalin518 12/19/18 8:06:32 PM #31:	Esrac posted... joe_stalin518 posted... A_Good_Boy posted... Bloodychess posted... The thing about the "No" crowd is that some of them seem more eager to judge certain people and try to direct discussion away from others Did you know Muhammed had a child bride and that's terrible. Did you know Jefferson fucked his slaves but he shouldn't be judged for it. He didn't rape her , he brought her to Paris france and gave her the option to leave but she didn't want to. You ever see a rapist have his victims buried in his families grave site That's not quite right. It would be more accurate to say that, in France, she could have left his service at will and he begged her to stay. I can live with that , at least it's not like those horrible 90s NBC rape movies , --- how does super mario world work without updates? Relax I know what I'm doing,I been killing topics since 1987 <cite>joe_stalin518 posted [p:914414708] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>Esrac posted...</cite> <quote><cite>joe_stalin518 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>A_Good_Boy posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Bloodychess posted...</cite> <quote>The thing about the "No" crowd is that some of them seem more eager to judge certain people and try to direct discussion away from others</quote> Did you know Muhammed had a child bride and that's terrible. Did you know Jefferson fucked his slaves but he shouldn't be judged for it.</quote> He didn't rape her , he brought her to Paris france and gave her the option to leave but she didn't want to. You ever see a rapist have his victims buried in his families grave site</quote> That's not quite right. It would be more accurate to say that, in France, she could have left his service at will and he begged her to stay.</quote> I can live with that , at least it's not like those horrible 90s NBC rape movies ,</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zikten 12/19/18 8:07:05 PM #32:	A_Good_Boy posted... Idk man, why not ask the slaves how they felt about Jefferson owning them. IDK man, why not ask the barbarians how they felt about being crushed by the Roman Empire Jefferson made a huge mark on history, despite his shortcoming with slaves. Rome built European civilization despite how they were often cruel to the people who lived in the lands they wanted to add to their empire <cite>Zikten posted [p:914414733] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>A_Good_Boy posted...</cite> <quote>Idk man, why not ask the slaves how they felt about Jefferson owning them.</quote> IDK man, why not ask the barbarians how they felt about being crushed by the Roman Empire Jefferson made a huge mark on history, despite his shortcoming with slaves. Rome built European civilization despite how they were often cruel to the people who lived in the lands they wanted to add to their empire</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Middle hope 12/19/18 8:08:15 PM #33:	The founding fathers were a bunch of traitors who didnt want to pay taxes and wanted to own slaves the ways they saw fit. Am I doing this right? --- \|)\|_ \|_\_/\|)\|_\|)\| - RE expert44 \|\\|__ \|__/\\| \|__\|\_\| This is RE expert44 (b^.^b)Have a nice day... <cite>Middle hope posted [p:914414797] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote>The founding fathers were a bunch of traitors who didnt want to pay taxes and wanted to own slaves the ways they saw fit. Am I doing this right?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Tyranthraxus 12/19/18 8:08:36 PM #34:	Orlando_Jordan posted... It's a bad thing, yes, but does that make the man himself pure evil? There were thousands of Americans who not only didn't own slaves, but actively fought against slavery even when Jefferson was alive. Calling that shit normal for it's time is a fucking lie and it's something he only did because he was a greedy sadist fuck who wanted to rape slaves. --- It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha." https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv <cite>Tyranthraxus posted [p:914414814] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>Orlando_Jordan posted...</cite> <quote>It's a bad thing, yes, but does that make the man himself pure evil?</quote> There were thousands of Americans who not only didn't own slaves, but actively fought against slavery even when Jefferson was alive. Calling that shit normal for it's time is a fucking lie and it's something he only did because he was a greedy sadist fuck who wanted to rape slaves.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Vertania 12/19/18 8:17:09 PM #35:	A_Good_Boy posted... Did you know Muhammed had a child bride and that's terrible. Did you know Jefferson fucked his slaves but he shouldn't be judged for it. Since you wanted to bring him up, you might as well mention that Muhammad had a child with one of his slaves and he made it legal for his men to have sex with their slaves and captives. Not to judge or anything. <cite>Vertania posted [p:914415214] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>A_Good_Boy posted...</cite> <quote>Did you know Muhammed had a child bride and that's terrible. Did you know Jefferson fucked his slaves but he shouldn't be judged for it.</quote> Since you wanted to bring him up, you might as well mention that Muhammad had a child with one of his slaves and he made it legal for his men to have sex with their slaves and captives. Not to judge or anything.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Fam_Fam 12/19/18 8:19:39 PM #36:	Vertania posted... A_Good_Boy posted... Did you know Muhammed had a child bride and that's terrible. Did you know Jefferson fucked his slaves but he shouldn't be judged for it. Since you wanted to bring him up, you might as well mention that Muhammad had a child with one of his slaves and he made it legal for his men to have sex with their slaves and captives. Not to judge or anything. gotta look at the context, man <cite>Fam_Fam posted [p:914415341] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>Vertania posted...</cite> <quote><cite>A_Good_Boy posted...</cite> <quote>Did you know Muhammed had a child bride and that's terrible. Did you know Jefferson fucked his slaves but he shouldn't be judged for it.</quote> Since you wanted to bring him up, you might as well mention that Muhammad had a child with one of his slaves and he made it legal for his men to have sex with their slaves and captives. Not to judge or anything.</quote> gotta look at the context, man</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
RickyTheBAWSE 12/19/18 8:24:04 PM #37:	Thomas Jefferson as well as many other figures were assholes for their time, too. not just by "modern standards." abolitionist would agree. plus, these cultures didn't change out of the goodness of their hearts. legislation simply made certain things illegal. like lynching. we have proof that people WANT to go back to times where they were more free to be shitty. Donald Trump isn't gonna be less of an asshole by 2100 standards either. also, even "great" figures have flaws. some just happen to be complete atrocities... --- Never let those intent on misunderstanding you be the narrator to YOUR story! Context? Context!? CONTEXT!!! <cite>RickyTheBAWSE posted [p:914415573] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote>Thomas Jefferson as well as many other figures were assholes for their time, too. not just by "modern standards." abolitionist would agree. plus, these cultures didn't change out of the goodness of their hearts. legislation simply made certain things illegal. like lynching. we have proof that people WANT to go back to times where they were more free to be shitty. Donald Trump isn't gonna be less of an asshole by 2100 standards either. also, even "great" figures have flaws. some just happen to be complete atrocities...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
A_Good_Boy 12/19/18 8:27:49 PM #38:	Vertania posted... A_Good_Boy posted... Did you know Muhammed had a child bride and that's terrible. Did you know Jefferson fucked his slaves but he shouldn't be judged for it. Since you wanted to bring him up, you might as well mention that Muhammad had a child with one of his slaves and he made it legal for his men to have sex with their slaves and captives. Not to judge or anything. That's OK. It was a different time. --- Who is? I am! <cite>A_Good_Boy posted [p:914415760] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>Vertania posted...</cite> <quote><cite>A_Good_Boy posted...</cite> <quote> Did you know Muhammed had a child bride and that's terrible. Did you know Jefferson fucked his slaves but he shouldn't be judged for it.</quote> Since you wanted to bring him up, you might as well mention that Muhammad had a child with one of his slaves and he made it legal for his men to have sex with their slaves and captives. Not to judge or anything.</quote> That's OK. It was a different time.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 12/19/18 8:33:01 PM #39:	I hate how people try to defend all criticized historical figures by arguing that everyone from more than like 50 years ago was some bigoted, self-centered jackass that likely did something we'd consider a war crime. That's insulting to all past good people. Assholes love to assume that everyone else must be an asshole. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:914416030] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote>I hate how people try to defend all criticized historical figures by arguing that everyone from more than like 50 years ago was some bigoted, self-centered jackass that likely did something we'd consider a war crime. That's insulting to all past good people. Assholes love to assume that everyone else must be an asshole.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 12/19/18 8:34:59 PM #40:	Vertania posted... A_Good_Boy posted... Did you know Muhammed had a child bride and that's terrible. Did you know Jefferson fucked his slaves but he shouldn't be judged for it. Since you wanted to bring him up, you might as well mention that Muhammad had a child with one of his slaves and he made it legal for his men to have sex with their slaves and captives. Not to judge or anything. Muhammad very bad Christopher Columbus very good --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:914416112] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>Vertania posted...</cite> <quote><cite>A_Good_Boy posted...</cite> <quote>Did you know Muhammed had a child bride and that's terrible. Did you know Jefferson fucked his slaves but he shouldn't be judged for it.</quote> Since you wanted to bring him up, you might as well mention that Muhammad had a child with one of his slaves and he made it legal for his men to have sex with their slaves and captives. Not to judge or anything.</quote> Muhammad very bad Christopher Columbus very good</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Tyranthraxus 12/19/18 8:38:03 PM #42:	Spooking posted... Yes, it's unfair. Imagine all the people in the future judging us because we eat animals instead of sucking nutrition out of a toothpaste tube. You can choose to go vegan any time you want and that has been an option for thousands of years --- It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha." https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv <cite>Tyranthraxus posted [p:914416252] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>Spooking posted...</cite> <quote>Yes, it's unfair. Imagine all the people in the future judging us because we eat animals instead of sucking nutrition out of a toothpaste tube.</quote> You can choose to go vegan any time you want and that has been an option for thousands of years</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 12/19/18 8:38:24 PM #43:	Spooking posted... Yes, it's unfair. Imagine all the people in the future judging us because we eat animals instead of sucking nutrition out of a toothpaste tube. There is a difference between judging someone's diet and judging them on owning people, hating people, or killing people. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:914416265] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>Spooking posted...</cite> <quote>Yes, it's unfair. Imagine all the people in the future judging us because we eat animals instead of sucking nutrition out of a toothpaste tube.</quote> There is a difference between judging someone's diet and judging them on owning people, hating people, or killing people.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
_Near_ 12/19/18 8:39:00 PM #44:	No, it isn't unfair. The problem comes when you idolize people as ultimate good, or a perfect example of a human being. People can do great things, yet be capable of extremely cruel acts. They should be lauded for those great things and condemned for their cruelty as well. Doesn't make them pure good or pure evil. It's about nuance. --- https://imgur.com/WyFIJkF This is America, where a lying, cheating degenerate can prosper. <cite>_Near_ posted [p:914416294] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote>No, it isn't unfair. The problem comes when you idolize people as ultimate good, or a perfect example of a human being. People can do great things, yet be capable of extremely cruel acts. They should be lauded for those great things and condemned for their cruelty as well. Doesn't make them pure good or pure evil. It's about nuance.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
RickyTheBAWSE 12/19/18 8:58:53 PM #45:	hockeybub89 posted... I hate how people try to defend all criticized historical figures by arguing that everyone from more than like 50 years ago was some bigoted, self-centered jackass that likely did something we'd consider a war crime. That's insulting to all past good people. Assholes love to assume that everyone else must be an asshole. congratulations. you have now virtue signaled. what do you have to say for yourself? --- Never let those intent on misunderstanding you be the narrator to YOUR story! Context? Context!? CONTEXT!!! <cite>RickyTheBAWSE posted [p:914417308] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>I hate how people try to defend all criticized historical figures by arguing that everyone from more than like 50 years ago was some bigoted, self-centered jackass that likely did something we'd consider a war crime. That's insulting to all past good people. Assholes love to assume that everyone else must be an asshole.</quote> congratulations. you have now virtue signaled. what do you have to say for yourself?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zikten 12/19/18 9:05:44 PM #46:	Tyranthraxus posted... You can choose to go vegan any time you want and that has been an option for thousands of years ancient people did not have as easy as time to go vegan actually. first of all, they wouldn't think of it cause what call "vegan" today is something ancient people would find weird. "wtf you don't drink milk from cows or goats? but......why?" also, it relies on farming. not everyone owned a farm. and it's a lot of work to grow the crops. you are asking people who didn't always know when their next meal would come, to ignore coming across easy prey to eat. like if they find a wounded pig in the forest. and they haven't eaten in 2 days. you want them to pass it up and go looking more for veggies. <cite>Zikten posted [p:914417625] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>Tyranthraxus posted...</cite> <quote>You can choose to go vegan any time you want and that has been an option for thousands of years</quote> ancient people did not have as easy as time to go vegan actually. first of all, they wouldn't think of it cause what call "vegan" today is something ancient people would find weird. "wtf you don't drink milk from cows or goats? but......why?" also, it relies on farming. not everyone owned a farm. and it's a lot of work to grow the crops. you are asking people who didn't always know when their next meal would come, to ignore coming across easy prey to eat. like if they find a wounded pig in the forest. and they haven't eaten in 2 days. you want them to pass it up and go looking more for veggies.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Vertania 12/19/18 9:06:05 PM #47:	I can't tell if certain people ITT really love defending Muhammad or just really hate Jefferson/Colombus/Gandhi/etc. <cite>Vertania posted [p:914417647] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote>I can't tell if certain people ITT really love defending Muhammad or just really hate Jefferson/Colombus/Gandhi/etc.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 12/19/18 9:11:43 PM #48:	RickyTheBAWSE posted... hockeybub89 posted... I hate how people try to defend all criticized historical figures by arguing that everyone from more than like 50 years ago was some bigoted, self-centered jackass that likely did something we'd consider a war crime. That's insulting to all past good people. Assholes love to assume that everyone else must be an asshole. congratulations. you have now virtue signaled. what do you have to say for yourself? "Not all long dead people were assholes" can only be virtue signalling? --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:914417899] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>RickyTheBAWSE posted...</cite> <quote><cite>hockeybub89 posted...</cite> <quote>I hate how people try to defend all criticized historical figures by arguing that everyone from more than like 50 years ago was some bigoted, self-centered jackass that likely did something we'd consider a war crime. That's insulting to all past good people. Assholes love to assume that everyone else must be an asshole.</quote> congratulations. you have now virtue signaled. what do you have to say for yourself?</quote> "Not all long dead people were assholes" can only be virtue signalling?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LogicWings 12/19/18 9:12:30 PM #49:	The Founding Fathers penned naturalization and natural born citizen in the Constitution. Anyone wonder what they wanted when they used natural. Their language was Upper Middle English and Jefferson wrote to read Shakespeare to know English in its purest form. Were all thy children kind and natural? Henry V <cite>LogicWings posted [p:914417925] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote>The Founding Fathers penned naturalization and natural born citizen in the Constitution. Anyone wonder what they wanted when they used natural. Their language was Upper Middle English and Jefferson wrote to read Shakespeare to know English in its purest form. Were all thy children kind and natural? Henry V</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 12/19/18 9:12:51 PM #50:	Vertania posted... I can't tell if certain people ITT really love defending Muhammad or just really hate Jefferson/Colombus/Gandhi/etc. Muhammad and Columbus were both shit. They aren't everyone who has ever lived though. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:914417939] in Is it unfa... [t:77317840]...</cite> <quote><cite>Vertania posted...</cite> <quote>I can't tell if certain people ITT really love defending Muhammad or just really hate Jefferson/Colombus/Gandhi/etc.</quote> Muhammad and Columbus were both shit. They aren't everyone who has ever lived though.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Is it unfair to judge historical figures by today's moral standards? (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Is it unfair to judge historical figures by today's moral standards?