Current Events > 12,000 people or all cats. You must sacrifice one.

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Aressar 12/13/18 1:39:20 AM #101:	visualboy2003 posted... Aressar posted... visualboy2003 posted... Aressar posted... visualboy2003 posted... but you don't wanna kill those 12,000 if one of them is your loved one. think about it. we human lives matter much more than cat lives. if there is even a way to just save one human, we needa find the best way to save him or her. There are some cats I like more than most humans I know, but that's my personal sentiment about it. When it comes to logical reasoning, I stand by my earlier post (#59). then, we woulda have a duel with it. just because some human troubled your life doesn't mean all are bad. That's why I explicitly mentioned it's my own sentiment why I like some cats more than most humans I know (which doesn't necessarily mean I hate humanity in general. I just like cats a bit better). But because I acknowledge my personal sentimental preference has little value in a debate like this, I stand by my reasoning in post #59. but what if one of those 12000 is your loved ones. see, i don't know why people can't think more wisely and unselfishly. Actually, your reasoning is selfish if you're making the choice primarily based on the possibility a loved one is among those 12,000. Sacrificing all cats would not only affect cats, but negatively affect humanity as a whole and many other species as well, due to the heavy impact on the ecosystem because an entire species has suddenly been completely removed. Whether you're doing this for your loved ones, humanity or felinity, more lives are ultimately saved by sacrificing the 12,000 humans instead of all cats. Even with the loved-ones reasoning, chances are more loved ones end up dead/affected if you sacrifice the cats. --- One time, CE triggered me so hard with their objectively wrong opinions that I accidentally punched myself in the balls. <cite>Aressar posted [p:914040475] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Aressar posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Aressar posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote>but you don't wanna kill those 12,000 if one of them is your loved one. think about it. we human lives matter much more than cat lives. if there is even a way to just save one human, we needa find the best way to save him or her.</quote> There are some cats I like more than most humans I know, but that's my personal sentiment about it. When it comes to logical reasoning, I stand by my earlier post (#59).</quote> then, we woulda have a duel with it. just because some human troubled your life doesn't mean all are bad.</quote> That's why I explicitly mentioned it's my own sentiment why I like some cats more than most humans I know (which doesn't necessarily mean I hate humanity in general. I just like cats a bit better). But because I acknowledge my personal sentimental preference has little value in a debate like this, I stand by my reasoning in post #59.</quote> but what if one of those 12000 is your loved ones. see, i don't know why people can't think more wisely and unselfishly.</quote> Actually, your reasoning is selfish if you're making the choice primarily based on the possibility a loved one is among those 12,000. Sacrificing all cats would not only affect cats, but negatively affect humanity as a whole and many other species as well, due to the heavy impact on the ecosystem because an entire species has suddenly been completely removed. Whether you're doing this for your loved ones, humanity or felinity, more lives are ultimately saved by sacrificing the 12,000 humans instead of all cats. Even with the loved-ones reasoning, chances are more loved ones end up dead/affected if you sacrifice the cats.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
visualboy2003 12/13/18 1:39:43 AM #102:	Kelystic posted... Noah saved cats for a reason. but only 2 cats, there were still more human on his ship. <cite>visualboy2003 posted [p:914040483] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>Kelystic posted...</cite> <quote>Noah saved cats for a reason.</quote> but only 2 cats, there were still more human on his ship.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mareen 12/13/18 1:39:49 AM #103:	visualboy2003 posted... Mareen posted... visualboy2003 posted... science can solve that problem. science can even make the same person. tigers are cats related. Tigers aren't that close to house cats, plus domesticating them would take far too long and the damaging effect of getting rid of millions and millions of cats would be in full force. you can get rid of rats by a big fire, dont you see how fire took out a woods and all trees of mountains in a few days. That could cause unnecessary harm and damage to countless people. --- Awz od fiis <cite>Mareen posted [p:914040487] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mareen posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote>science can solve that problem. science can even make the same person. tigers are cats related.</quote> Tigers aren't that close to house cats, plus domesticating them would take far too long and the damaging effect of getting rid of millions and millions of cats would be in full force.</quote> you can get rid of rats by a big fire, dont you see how fire took out a woods and all trees of mountains in a few days.</quote> That could cause unnecessary harm and damage to countless people.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
visualboy2003 12/13/18 1:41:05 AM #104:	Aressar posted... visualboy2003 posted... Aressar posted... visualboy2003 posted... Aressar posted... visualboy2003 posted... but you don't wanna kill those 12,000 if one of them is your loved one. think about it. we human lives matter much more than cat lives. if there is even a way to just save one human, we needa find the best way to save him or her. There are some cats I like more than most humans I know, but that's my personal sentiment about it. When it comes to logical reasoning, I stand by my earlier post (#59). then, we woulda have a duel with it. just because some human troubled your life doesn't mean all are bad. That's why I explicitly mentioned it's my own sentiment why I like some cats more than most humans I know (which doesn't necessarily mean I hate humanity in general. I just like cats a bit better). But because I acknowledge my personal sentimental preference has little value in a debate like this, I stand by my reasoning in post #59. but what if one of those 12000 is your loved ones. see, i don't know why people can't think more wisely and unselfishly. Actually, your reasoning is selfish if you're making the choice primarily based on the possibility a loved one is among those 12,000. Sacrificing all cats would not only affect cats, but negatively affect humanity as a whole and many other species as well, due to the heavy impact on the ecosystem because an entire species has suddenly been completely removed. Whether you're doing this for your loved ones, humanity or felinity, more lives are ultimately saved by sacrificing the 12,000 humans instead of all cats. Even with the loved-ones reasoning, chances are more loved ones end up dead/affected if you sacrifice the cats. no, your way of thinking is more selfish, because you fail to realize what science would do that can change that result. <cite>visualboy2003 posted [p:914040521] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>Aressar posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Aressar posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Aressar posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote>but you don't wanna kill those 12,000 if one of them is your loved one. think about it. we human lives matter much more than cat lives. if there is even a way to just save one human, we needa find the best way to save him or her.</quote> There are some cats I like more than most humans I know, but that's my personal sentiment about it. When it comes to logical reasoning, I stand by my earlier post (#59).</quote> then, we woulda have a duel with it. just because some human troubled your life doesn't mean all are bad.</quote> That's why I explicitly mentioned it's my own sentiment why I like some cats more than most humans I know (which doesn't necessarily mean I hate humanity in general. I just like cats a bit better). But because I acknowledge my personal sentimental preference has little value in a debate like this, I stand by my reasoning in post #59.</quote> but what if one of those 12000 is your loved ones. see, i don't know why people can't think more wisely and unselfishly.</quote> Actually, your reasoning is selfish if you're making the choice primarily based on the possibility a loved one is among those 12,000. Sacrificing all cats would not only affect cats, but negatively affect humanity as a whole and many other species as well, due to the heavy impact on the ecosystem because an entire species has suddenly been completely removed. Whether you're doing this for your loved ones, humanity or felinity, more lives are ultimately saved by sacrificing the 12,000 humans instead of all cats. Even with the loved-ones reasoning, chances are more loved ones end up dead/affected if you sacrifice the cats.</quote> no, your way of thinking is more selfish, because you fail to realize what science would do that can change that result.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
visualboy2003 12/13/18 1:41:39 AM #105:	Mareen posted... visualboy2003 posted... Mareen posted... visualboy2003 posted... science can solve that problem. science can even make the same person. tigers are cats related. Tigers aren't that close to house cats, plus domesticating them would take far too long and the damaging effect of getting rid of millions and millions of cats would be in full force. you can get rid of rats by a big fire, dont you see how fire took out a woods and all trees of mountains in a few days. That could cause unnecessary harm and damage to countless people. not really, move away the people first, then set it up. <cite>visualboy2003 posted [p:914040535] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mareen posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mareen posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote>science can solve that problem. science can even make the same person. tigers are cats related.</quote> Tigers aren't that close to house cats, plus domesticating them would take far too long and the damaging effect of getting rid of millions and millions of cats would be in full force.</quote> you can get rid of rats by a big fire, dont you see how fire took out a woods and all trees of mountains in a few days.</quote> That could cause unnecessary harm and damage to countless people.</quote> not really, move away the people first, then set it up.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mareen 12/13/18 1:48:24 AM #106:	visualboy2003 posted... Mareen posted... visualboy2003 posted... Mareen posted... visualboy2003 posted... science can solve that problem. science can even make the same person. tigers are cats related. Tigers aren't that close to house cats, plus domesticating them would take far too long and the damaging effect of getting rid of millions and millions of cats would be in full force. you can get rid of rats by a big fire, dont you see how fire took out a woods and all trees of mountains in a few days. That could cause unnecessary harm and damage to countless people. not really, move away the people first, then set it up. And potentially destroy countless buildings? Thus rendering people homeless? --- Awz od fiis <cite>Mareen posted [p:914040716] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mareen posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mareen posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote>science can solve that problem. science can even make the same person. tigers are cats related.</quote> Tigers aren't that close to house cats, plus domesticating them would take far too long and the damaging effect of getting rid of millions and millions of cats would be in full force.</quote> you can get rid of rats by a big fire, dont you see how fire took out a woods and all trees of mountains in a few days.</quote> That could cause unnecessary harm and damage to countless people.</quote> not really, move away the people first, then set it up.</quote> And potentially destroy countless buildings? Thus rendering people homeless?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
visualboy2003 12/13/18 1:53:08 AM #107:	Mareen posted... visualboy2003 posted... Mareen posted... visualboy2003 posted... Mareen posted... visualboy2003 posted... science can solve that problem. science can even make the same person. tigers are cats related. Tigers aren't that close to house cats, plus domesticating them would take far too long and the damaging effect of getting rid of millions and millions of cats would be in full force. you can get rid of rats by a big fire, dont you see how fire took out a woods and all trees of mountains in a few days. That could cause unnecessary harm and damage to countless people. not really, move away the people first, then set it up. And potentially destroy countless buildings? Thus rendering people homeless? still better than killing those many people. if there is even a small amount of chance to save someone, you should try your best to save him or her no matter what, that's the moral code of the world. human lives do matter. <cite>visualboy2003 posted [p:914040864] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mareen posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mareen posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mareen posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote>science can solve that problem. science can even make the same person. tigers are cats related.</quote> Tigers aren't that close to house cats, plus domesticating them would take far too long and the damaging effect of getting rid of millions and millions of cats would be in full force.</quote> you can get rid of rats by a big fire, dont you see how fire took out a woods and all trees of mountains in a few days.</quote> That could cause unnecessary harm and damage to countless people.</quote> not really, move away the people first, then set it up.</quote> And potentially destroy countless buildings? Thus rendering people homeless?</quote> still better than killing those many people. if there is even a small amount of chance to save someone, you should try your best to save him or her no matter what, that's the moral code of the world. human lives do matter.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ThyCorndog 12/13/18 1:54:53 AM #108:	12k people isnt even that much vs a whole species --- Hey what's going on in this thread https://imgur.com/6fpKRW8 https://imgur.com/RNZi0gk <cite>ThyCorndog posted [p:914040908] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote>12k people isnt even that much vs a whole species</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mareen 12/13/18 1:55:12 AM #109:	visualboy2003 posted... Mareen posted... visualboy2003 posted... Mareen posted... visualboy2003 posted... Mareen posted... visualboy2003 posted... science can solve that problem. science can even make the same person. tigers are cats related. Tigers aren't that close to house cats, plus domesticating them would take far too long and the damaging effect of getting rid of millions and millions of cats would be in full force. you can get rid of rats by a big fire, dont you see how fire took out a woods and all trees of mountains in a few days. That could cause unnecessary harm and damage to countless people. not really, move away the people first, then set it up. And potentially destroy countless buildings? Thus rendering people homeless? still better than killing those many people. if there is even a small amount of chance to save someone, you should try your best to save him or her no matter what, that's the moral code of the world. human lives do matter. No shit human lives matter. That's why saving the cats and not burning down people's homes is the ethical choice. --- Awz od fiis <cite>Mareen posted [p:914040921] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mareen posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mareen posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mareen posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote>science can solve that problem. science can even make the same person. tigers are cats related.</quote> Tigers aren't that close to house cats, plus domesticating them would take far too long and the damaging effect of getting rid of millions and millions of cats would be in full force.</quote> you can get rid of rats by a big fire, dont you see how fire took out a woods and all trees of mountains in a few days.</quote> That could cause unnecessary harm and damage to countless people.</quote> not really, move away the people first, then set it up.</quote> And potentially destroy countless buildings? Thus rendering people homeless?</quote> still better than killing those many people. if there is even a small amount of chance to save someone, you should try your best to save him or her no matter what, that's the moral code of the world. human lives do matter.</quote> No shit human lives matter. That's why saving the cats and not burning down people's homes is the ethical choice.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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visualboy2003 12/13/18 1:57:56 AM #111:	Mareen posted... No shit human lives matter. That's why saving the cats and not burning down people's homes is the ethical choice. homes can be rebuilded, but your loved ones can not be regained. tigers are related to cats also. <cite>visualboy2003 posted [p:914040996] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mareen posted...</cite> <quote>No shit human lives matter. That's why saving the cats and not burning down people's homes is the ethical choice.</quote> homes can be rebuilded, but your loved ones can not be regained. tigers are related to cats also.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
visualboy2003 12/13/18 2:00:54 AM #112:	i already said fire would do the job to cleanse all rats. <cite>visualboy2003 posted [p:914041068] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote>i already said fire would do the job to cleanse all rats.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mareen 12/13/18 2:02:37 AM #113:	visualboy2003 posted... Mareen posted... No shit human lives matter. That's why saving the cats and not burning down people's homes is the ethical choice. homes can be rebuild, but your loved ones can not be regain. tigers are related to cats also. Yeah they can, but then the rats swarm right back in because they breed like crazy. Already mentioned that tigers would not stop the insane rat explosion. Also TC never mentioned who the 12,000 would even be. By sheer chance it could be like 12,000 criminals or something along those lines. --- Awz od fiis <cite>Mareen posted [p:914041088] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mareen posted...</cite> <quote>No shit human lives matter. That's why saving the cats and not burning down people's homes is the ethical choice.</quote> homes can be rebuild, but your loved ones can not be regain. tigers are related to cats also.</quote> Yeah they can, but then the rats swarm right back in because they breed like crazy. Already mentioned that tigers would not stop the insane rat explosion. Also TC never mentioned who the 12,000 would even be. By sheer chance it could be like 12,000 criminals or something along those lines.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ModLogic 12/13/18 2:02:41 AM #114:	120,000,000 and ill still pick to save the cats humans have fucked up enough. cant keep fucking over all other life thinking we're superior. --- https://i.imgtc.com/PruZV73.png https://imgur.com/lbSi0U3 https://imgur.com/xaRYKZM https://imgur.com/ZngbqJn <cite>ModLogic posted [p:914041092] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote>120,000,000 and ill still pick to save the cats humans have fucked up enough. cant keep fucking over all other life thinking we're superior.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
visualboy2003 12/13/18 2:05:47 AM #115:	Mareen posted... visualboy2003 posted... Mareen posted... No shit human lives matter. That's why saving the cats and not burning down people's homes is the ethical choice. homes can be rebuild, but your loved ones can not be regain. tigers are related to cats also. Yeah they can, but then the rats swarm right back in because they breed like crazy. Already mentioned that tigers would not stop the insane rat explosion. Also TC never mentioned who the 12,000 would even be. By sheer chance it could be like 12,000 criminals or something along those lines. if they are criminals, that's fine, but tc did make a pic of all those lovely people which included children there, and children are our future. how can you say you can regain your wife if she were killed. how can you regain your sister if she were killed. as mentioned, if a big fire cleanse all rats, there would be no spieces of rats remained on earth, though no more rats would be seen. <cite>visualboy2003 posted [p:914041172] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mareen posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mareen posted...</cite> <quote>No shit human lives matter. That's why saving the cats and not burning down people's homes is the ethical choice.</quote> homes can be rebuild, but your loved ones can not be regain. tigers are related to cats also.</quote> Yeah they can, but then the rats swarm right back in because they breed like crazy. Already mentioned that tigers would not stop the insane rat explosion. Also TC never mentioned who the 12,000 would even be. By sheer chance it could be like 12,000 criminals or something along those lines.</quote> if they are criminals, that's fine, but tc did make a pic of all those lovely people which included children there, and children are our future. how can you say you can regain your wife if she were killed. how can you regain your sister if she were killed. as mentioned, if a big fire cleanse all rats, there would be no spieces of rats remained on earth, though no more rats would be seen.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mareen 12/13/18 2:06:03 AM #116:	visualboy2003 posted... i already said fire would do the job to cleanse all rats. No it wouldn't, you're severely underestimating how frequent they are. They'll be like several hundred generations per week (gross understatement) while people all around the globe coordinate this fire plan. --- Awz od fiis <cite>Mareen posted [p:914041178] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote>i already said fire would do the job to cleanse all rats.</quote> No it wouldn't, you're severely underestimating how frequent they are. They'll be like several hundred generations per week (gross understatement) while people all around the globe coordinate this fire plan.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
visualboy2003 12/13/18 2:06:40 AM #117:	ModLogic posted... 120,000,000 and ill still pick to save the cats humans have fucked up enough. cant keep fucking over all other life thinking we're superior. not superior, but more important, and more valuable. <cite>visualboy2003 posted [p:914041196] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>ModLogic posted...</cite> <quote>120,000,000 and ill still pick to save the cats humans have fucked up enough. cant keep fucking over all other life thinking we're superior.</quote> not superior, but more important, and more valuable.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
visualboy2003 12/13/18 2:08:19 AM #118:	Mareen posted... visualboy2003 posted... i already said fire would do the job to cleanse all rats. No it wouldn't, you're severely underestimating how frequent they are. They'll be like several hundred generations per week (gross understatement) while people all around the globe coordinate this fire plan. so, a big fire would took them all out. you are underrestimaiting the power of it. <cite>visualboy2003 posted [p:914041234] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mareen posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote>i already said fire would do the job to cleanse all rats.</quote> No it wouldn't, you're severely underestimating how frequent they are. They'll be like several hundred generations per week (gross understatement) while people all around the globe coordinate this fire plan.</quote> so, a big fire would took them all out. you are underrestimaiting the power of it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mareen 12/13/18 2:10:55 AM #119:	visualboy2003 posted... Mareen posted... visualboy2003 posted... i already said fire would do the job to cleanse all rats. No it wouldn't, you're severely underestimating how frequent they are. They'll be like several hundred generations per week (gross understatement) while people all around the globe coordinate this fire plan. so, a big fire would took them all out. you are underrestimaiting the power of it. No, if anything, you're underestimating the power of the fire. If we're making a fire strong enough to obliterate rats everywhere then people are inevitably going to get hurt. Plus you'd be killing other organisms too in the process. --- Awz od fiis <cite>Mareen posted [p:914041304] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mareen posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote>i already said fire would do the job to cleanse all rats.</quote> No it wouldn't, you're severely underestimating how frequent they are. They'll be like several hundred generations per week (gross understatement) while people all around the globe coordinate this fire plan.</quote> so, a big fire would took them all out. you are underrestimaiting the power of it.</quote> No, if anything, you're underestimating the power of the fire. If we're making a fire strong enough to obliterate rats everywhere then people are inevitably going to get hurt. Plus you'd be killing other organisms too in the process.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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visualboy2003 12/13/18 2:19:10 AM #121:	Mareen posted... visualboy2003 posted... Mareen posted... visualboy2003 posted... i already said fire would do the job to cleanse all rats. No it wouldn't, you're severely underestimating how frequent they are. They'll be like several hundred generations per week (gross understatement) while people all around the globe coordinate this fire plan. so, a big fire would took them all out. you are underrestimaiting the power of it. No, if anything, you're underestimating the power of the fire. If we're making a fire strong enough to obliterate rats everywhere then people are inevitably going to get hurt. Plus you'd be killing other organisms too in the process. so, science would find a way to burn out all those rats that are living in human's places first, and then burn out those that are close to human. as for the remaining rats over other areas of the world. science would also find a way to exclude them from us. <cite>visualboy2003 posted [p:914041557] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mareen posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mareen posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote>i already said fire would do the job to cleanse all rats.</quote> No it wouldn't, you're severely underestimating how frequent they are. They'll be like several hundred generations per week (gross understatement) while people all around the globe coordinate this fire plan.</quote> so, a big fire would took them all out. you are underrestimaiting the power of it.</quote> No, if anything, you're underestimating the power of the fire. If we're making a fire strong enough to obliterate rats everywhere then people are inevitably going to get hurt. Plus you'd be killing other organisms too in the process.</quote> so, science would find a way to burn out all those rats that are living in human's places first, and then burn out those that are close to human. as for the remaining rats over other areas of the world. science would also find a way to exclude them from us.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
visualboy2003 12/13/18 2:20:44 AM #122:	AssultTank posted... visualboy2003 posted... Mareen posted... visualboy2003 posted... i already said fire would do the job to cleanse all rats. No it wouldn't, you're severely underestimating how frequent they are. They'll be like several hundred generations per week (gross understatement) while people all around the globe coordinate this fire plan. so, a big fire would took them all out. you are underrestimaiting the power of it. You are overestimating and underestimating the power of a fire, underestimating the intelligence of rats and other rodents, and underestimating how much you would have to burn. To kill ALL rats and other rodents using fire, you would have to destroy every single human habitat on the planet, every single tree, every single field... If you miss just TWO rats, you have half a billion on your hands in just 3 years time. 3 years of time is long enough for science to think of a way to kill them all beside fire. so, just use fire to kill those that are close first, then, there would be enough time to think of another better way to do it. <cite>visualboy2003 posted [p:914041598] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>AssultTank posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mareen posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote>i already said fire would do the job to cleanse all rats.</quote> No it wouldn't, you're severely underestimating how frequent they are. They'll be like several hundred generations per week (gross understatement) while people all around the globe coordinate this fire plan.</quote> so, a big fire would took them all out. you are underrestimaiting the power of it.</quote> You are overestimating and underestimating the power of a fire, underestimating the intelligence of rats and other rodents, and underestimating how much you would have to burn. To kill ALL rats and other rodents using fire, you would have to destroy every single human habitat on the planet, every single tree, every single field... If you miss just TWO rats, you have half a billion on your hands in just 3 years time.</quote> 3 years of time is long enough for science to think of a way to kill them all beside fire. so, just use fire to kill those that are close first, then, there would be enough time to think of another better way to do it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
#123	Post #123 was unavailable or deleted.
visualboy2003 12/13/18 2:24:21 AM #124:	it is to put big money to develop medicine or toxic that can kill only rats easily. <cite>visualboy2003 posted [p:914041684] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote>it is to put big money to develop medicine or toxic that can kill only rats easily.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
visualboy2003 12/13/18 2:25:31 AM #125:	AssultTank posted... visualboy2003 posted... Mareen posted... visualboy2003 posted... Mareen posted... visualboy2003 posted... i already said fire would do the job to cleanse all rats. No it wouldn't, you're severely underestimating how frequent they are. They'll be like several hundred generations per week (gross understatement) while people all around the globe coordinate this fire plan. so, a big fire would took them all out. you are underrestimaiting the power of it. No, if anything, you're underestimating the power of the fire. If we're making a fire strong enough to obliterate rats everywhere then people are inevitably going to get hurt. Plus you'd be killing other organisms too in the process. so, science would find a way to burn out all those rats that are living in human's places first, and then burn out those that are close to human. as for the remaining rats over other areas of the world. science would also find a way to exclude them from us. And how would they manage to do that before we go extinct considering that we've been trying for decades to kill rats and haven't been successful? It would likely only take a couple years for us to go extinct... <_< 3 years isn't anywhere near enough time to solve a problem we've been trying to solve for literally decades and haven't made much progress... because we never put like really really really big amount of money to develop machinery and medicine that can kill most rats easily. <cite>visualboy2003 posted [p:914041713] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>AssultTank posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mareen posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Mareen posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote>i already said fire would do the job to cleanse all rats.</quote> No it wouldn't, you're severely underestimating how frequent they are. They'll be like several hundred generations per week (gross understatement) while people all around the globe coordinate this fire plan.</quote> so, a big fire would took them all out. you are underrestimaiting the power of it.</quote> No, if anything, you're underestimating the power of the fire. If we're making a fire strong enough to obliterate rats everywhere then people are inevitably going to get hurt. Plus you'd be killing other organisms too in the process.</quote> so, science would find a way to burn out all those rats that are living in human's places first, and then burn out those that are close to human. as for the remaining rats over other areas of the world. science would also find a way to exclude them from us.</quote> And how would they manage to do that before we go extinct considering that we've been trying for decades to kill rats and haven't been successful? It would likely only take a couple years for us to go extinct... <_< 3 years isn't anywhere near enough time to solve a problem we've been trying to solve for literally decades and haven't made much progress...</quote> because we never put like really really really big amount of money to develop machinery and medicine that can kill most rats easily.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 12/13/18 2:27:33 AM #126:	Mareen posted... visualboy2003 posted... i already said fire would do the job to cleanse all rats. No it wouldn't, you're severely underestimating how frequent they are. They'll be like several hundred generations per week (gross understatement) while people all around the globe coordinate this fire plan. AssultTank posted... And how would they manage to do that before we go extinct considering that we've been trying for decades to kill rats and haven't been successful? It would likely only take a couple years for us to go extinct... <_< 3 years isn't anywhere near enough time to solve a problem we've been trying to solve for literally decades and haven't made much progress... Rats have been around all over the world for 160 million years. Rabbits 4,000. Cats have been around about 10,000 and only common as pets since the 19th century. Humans literally lived your cat-free Apocolypse for thousands of years. --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:914041762] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mareen posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote>i already said fire would do the job to cleanse all rats.</quote> No it wouldn't, you're severely underestimating how frequent they are. They'll be like several hundred generations per week (gross understatement) while people all around the globe coordinate this fire plan.</quote> <cite>AssultTank posted...</cite> <quote> And how would they manage to do that before we go extinct considering that we've been trying for decades to kill rats and haven't been successful? It would likely only take a couple years for us to go extinct... <_< 3 years isn't anywhere near enough time to solve a problem we've been trying to solve for literally decades and haven't made much progress...</quote> Rats have been around all over the world for 160 million years. Rabbits 4,000. Cats have been around about 10,000 and only common as pets since the 19th century. Humans literally lived your cat-free Apocolypse for thousands of years.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jumi 12/13/18 2:32:08 AM #127:	600 million cats, or 12000 humans? --- XBL Gamertag: Rob Thorsman Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/robertvsilvers <cite>jumi posted [p:914041895] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote>600 million cats, or 12000 humans?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
visualboy2003 12/13/18 2:32:40 AM #128:	jumi posted... 600 million cats, or 12000 humans? eliminate cats is the wiser choice. <cite>visualboy2003 posted [p:914041908] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>jumi posted...</cite> <quote>600 million cats, or 12000 humans?</quote> eliminate cats is the wiser choice.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Rikiaz 12/13/18 2:35:46 AM #129:	Kill the people easy. First the logical reason; 12,000 people will have a much lower impact over all than killing off every single cat. Secondly, cats are amazing animals and I wouldn't want to live without them. --- From the depths, the thing they called Worm King did rise. Nirn itself did scream in the Mages' and Necromancers' war. <cite>Rikiaz posted [p:914041975] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote>Kill the people easy. First the logical reason; 12,000 people will have a much lower impact over all than killing off every single cat. Secondly, cats are amazing animals and I wouldn't want to live without them.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jumi 12/13/18 2:38:15 AM #130:	visualboy2003 posted... jumi posted... 600 million cats, or 12000 humans? eliminate cats is the wiser choice. No it's not. --- XBL Gamertag: Rob Thorsman Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/robertvsilvers <cite>jumi posted [p:914042018] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>jumi posted...</cite> <quote>600 million cats, or 12000 humans?</quote> eliminate cats is the wiser choice.</quote> No it's not.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Hicks233 12/13/18 2:47:21 AM #131:	Looked gf posted... lol @ peeps picking cats enjoy your rats lmao Just as well there are dogs that are effective ratters. Bye-bye kitties, take the toxoplasmosis parasites with you. --- http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/index.php?boardid=9458 So says Mr. Stewart. <cite>Hicks233 posted [p:914042215] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>Looked gf posted...</cite> <quote>lol @ peeps picking cats enjoy your rats lmao</quote> Just as well there are dogs that are effective ratters. Bye-bye kitties, take the toxoplasmosis parasites with you.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
visualboy2003 12/13/18 2:58:48 AM #132:	jumi posted... visualboy2003 posted... jumi posted... 600 million cats, or 12000 humans? eliminate cats is the wiser choice. No it's not. yes, it is. <cite>visualboy2003 posted [p:914042456] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>jumi posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>jumi posted...</cite> <quote>600 million cats, or 12000 humans?</quote> eliminate cats is the wiser choice.</quote> No it's not.</quote> yes, it is.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Aressar 12/13/18 4:19:15 AM #133:	visualboy2003 posted... jumi posted... visualboy2003 posted... jumi posted... 600 million cats, or 12000 humans? eliminate cats is the wiser choice. No it's not. yes, it is. No, it's not. It's nice that you think 'science will find a way to solve that within a few years' but if it were as simple as that, literally all of society's problems would be solved by now. Scientists might indeed look into it, but a permanent and stable solution will definitely take more than a few years, since there are an enormous amount of factors to take into account when interfering with the ecosystem in this manner. During that time, many, many people would be negatively affected by the consequences (i.e. disease), resulting in a lot more human casualties than 12,000. Either choice has a chance of affecting your loved ones. The sacrifice-all-cats choice simply brings a significantly higher chance of (many more) loved ones dying. You're killing people either way: either 12,000 or many more. That's what it comes down to. --- One time, CE triggered me so hard with their objectively wrong opinions that I accidentally punched myself in the balls. <cite>Aressar posted [p:914043963] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>jumi posted...</cite> <quote><cite>visualboy2003 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>jumi posted...</cite> <quote>600 million cats, or 12000 humans?</quote> eliminate cats is the wiser choice.</quote> No it's not.</quote> yes, it is.</quote> No, it's not. It's nice that you think 'science will find a way to solve that within a few years' but if it were as simple as that, literally all of society's problems would be solved by now. Scientists might indeed look into it, but a permanent and stable solution will definitely take more than a few years, since there are an enormous amount of factors to take into account when interfering with the ecosystem in this manner. During that time, many, many people would be negatively affected by the consequences (i.e. disease), resulting in a lot more human casualties than 12,000. Either choice has a chance of affecting your loved ones. The sacrifice-all-cats choice simply brings a significantly higher chance of (many more) loved ones dying. You're killing people either way: either 12,000 or many more. That's what it comes down to.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Thompson 12/13/18 4:30:52 AM #134:	12,000 people is a recoverable loss, but losing an entire species, especially one as iconic and crucial as cats, is not. --- Sigs are rather pointless, except if it's to showcase animation and images. <cite>Thompson posted [p:914044164] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote>12,000 people is a recoverable loss, but losing an entire species, especially one as iconic and crucial as cats, is not.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 12/13/18 5:04:07 AM #135:	Thompson posted... 12,000 people is a recoverable loss, but losing an entire species, especially one as iconic and crucial as cats, is not. tell that to the families of the deceased --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:914044722] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>Thompson posted...</cite> <quote>12,000 people is a recoverable loss, but losing an entire species, especially one as iconic and crucial as cats, is not.</quote> tell that to the families of the deceased</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
jumi 12/13/18 5:17:59 AM #136:	Plus, if the Egyptian gods are real, they would be pissed af. --- XBL Gamertag: Rob Thorsman Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/robertvsilvers <cite>jumi posted [p:914044923] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote>Plus, if the Egyptian gods are real, they would be pissed af.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Thompson 12/13/18 5:42:50 AM #137:	UnfairRepresent posted... Thompson posted... 12,000 people is a recoverable loss, but losing an entire species, especially one as iconic and crucial as cats, is not. tell that to the families of the deceased I'd be certainly upset if my entire family were among the 12,000, but as hard as it would be to accept, I have to understand that the survival of an entire species is more important than losing a fraction of a species. Afterall, we could apply the same dilemma to any other species and see how willing we are to put humans above animals, can't we? How many humans are dogs worth? 30,000? How about cattle, horses, and chickens? Put those against, I dunno, 250,000 people. Yeah, wipe out a large city, or the means of millions upon millions of people to make their daily living. I'm sure the latter will have far more severe repercussions that aren't immediately obvious, but will ultimately lead to more than 250,000 deaths, not to mention global economic and societal collapse. The loss of cats will not cause an impact as severe, but their disappearance will undoubtly have consequences that'll eclipse 12,000 deaths. --- Sigs are rather pointless, except if it's to showcase animation and images. <cite>Thompson posted [p:914045350] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Thompson posted...</cite> <quote>12,000 people is a recoverable loss, but losing an entire species, especially one as iconic and crucial as cats, is not.</quote> tell that to the families of the deceased</quote> I'd be certainly upset if my entire family were among the 12,000, but as hard as it would be to accept, I have to understand that the survival of an entire species is more important than losing a fraction of a species. Afterall, we could apply the same dilemma to any other species and see how willing we are to put humans above animals, can't we? How many humans are dogs worth? 30,000? How about cattle, horses, and chickens? Put those against, I dunno, 250,000 people. Yeah, wipe out a large city, or the means of millions upon millions of people to make their daily living. I'm sure the latter will have far more severe repercussions that aren't immediately obvious, but will ultimately lead to more than 250,000 deaths, not to mention global economic and societal collapse. The loss of cats will not cause an impact as severe, but their disappearance will undoubtly have consequences that'll eclipse 12,000 deaths.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 12/13/18 6:03:46 AM #138:	Thompson posted... I have to understand that the survival of an entire species is more important than losing a fraction of a species I don't agree with that at all. species die out every day and no one cares including yourself id also shed no tears if mosquitos went away --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:914045694] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>Thompson posted...</cite> <quote>I have to understand that the survival of an entire species is more important than losing a fraction of a species</quote> I don't agree with that at all. species die out every day and no one cares including yourself id also shed no tears if mosquitos went away</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Thompson 12/13/18 6:18:59 AM #139:	UnfairRepresent posted... Thompson posted... I have to understand that the survival of an entire species is more important than losing a fraction of a species I don't agree with that at all. species die out every day and no one cares including yourself id also shed no tears if mosquitos went away That's because you don't see the grander picture. Mosquitoes may annoy you, sure, but they're also a food source for several animals. Remove that food source, and those animals will suffer, maybe even die out. And then that means another animal who used those as animals as food will suffer, et cetera. Eventually, it will be us who will suffer. In want of a nail, indeed. --- Sigs are rather pointless, except if it's to showcase animation and images. <cite>Thompson posted [p:914045951] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Thompson posted...</cite> <quote>I have to understand that the survival of an entire species is more important than losing a fraction of a species</quote> I don't agree with that at all. species die out every day and no one cares including yourself id also shed no tears if mosquitos went away</quote> That's because you don't see the grander picture. Mosquitoes may annoy you, sure, but they're also a food source for several animals. Remove that food source, and those animals will suffer, maybe even die out. And then that means another animal who used those as animals as food will suffer, et cetera. Eventually, it will be us who will suffer. In want of a nail, indeed.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
zhangliao1 12/13/18 6:26:13 AM #140:	can i pick the 12,000? --- "There are many children's books that teach morals, but I don't go around worshipping mother goose." - Dynalo <cite>zhangliao1 posted [p:914046097] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote>can i pick the 12,000?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NotWhiteNinja 12/13/18 6:53:36 AM #141:	Cats. Birds have now lost their only natural enemy and will take over the world. I will be honored as their god for enabling this to happen. If I want 12,000 people dead, the birds will now do this for me. I can't think of 12,000 people I want dead anyway, but the point is I'll have the option. --- Nope. I'm totally not the white ninja. You're confusing me with someone else. <cite>NotWhiteNinja posted [p:914046625] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote>Cats. Birds have now lost their only natural enemy and will take over the world. I will be honored as their god for enabling this to happen. If I want 12,000 people dead, the birds will now do this for me. I can't think of 12,000 people I want dead anyway, but the point is I'll have the option.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 12/13/18 7:18:18 AM #142:	Thompson posted... That's because you don't see the grander picture. Mosquitoes may annoy you, sure, but they're also a food source for several animals. Re this isn't true Mosquitos are not part of any real ecosystem and their eradication would be negligable for birds --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:914047106] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>Thompson posted...</cite> <quote>That's because you don't see the grander picture. Mosquitoes may annoy you, sure, but they're also a food source for several animals. Re</quote> this isn't true Mosquitos are not part of any real ecosystem and their eradication would be negligable for birds</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Thompson 12/13/18 7:30:47 AM #143:	UnfairRepresent posted... Thompson posted... That's because you don't see the grander picture. Mosquitoes may annoy you, sure, but they're also a food source for several animals. Re this isn't true Mosquitos are not part of any real ecosystem and their eradication would be negligable for birds I'd rather be safe than sorry. --- Sigs are rather pointless, except if it's to showcase animation and images. <cite>Thompson posted [p:914047366] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Thompson posted...</cite> <quote>That's because you don't see the grander picture. Mosquitoes may annoy you, sure, but they're also a food source for several animals. Re</quote> this isn't true Mosquitos are not part of any real ecosystem and their eradication would be negligable for birds</quote> I'd rather be safe than sorry.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ilishe 12/13/18 7:33:40 AM #144:	Bye cats. Dog victory achieved. --- ~Phoenix Nine~ ~Victory needs no explanation; defeat allows none.~ <cite>Ilishe posted [p:914047425] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote>Bye cats. Dog victory achieved.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sphyx 12/13/18 7:36:07 AM #145:	UnfairRepresent posted... Mosquitos are not part of any real ecosystem and their eradication would be negligable for birds They are, however, a major part of the early diet of many species of small freshwater creatures that may be the prey of said birds. --- You're so vain, You probably think this sig is about you. <cite>Sphyx posted [p:914047492] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>UnfairRepresent posted...</cite> <quote>Mosquitos are not part of any real ecosystem and their eradication would be negligable for birds</quote> They are, however, a major part of the early diet of many species of small freshwater creatures that may be the prey of said birds.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Acceptance 12/13/18 7:41:07 AM #146:	So 12,000 people die or millions die due to disease? No choice but to pick the 12,000 --- Do you accept the charges? <cite>Acceptance posted [p:914047589] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote>So 12,000 people die or millions die due to disease? No choice but to pick the 12,000</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gp1829 12/13/18 7:49:47 AM #147:	Are people in this topic actually debating the merits of "a really big fire to kill all the rats" damn this is stupid. <cite>gp1829 posted [p:914047814] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote>Are people in this topic actually debating the merits of "a really big fire to kill all the rats" damn this is stupid.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Caution999 12/13/18 9:00:30 AM #148:	gp1829 posted... Are people in this topic actually debating the merits of "a really big fire to kill all the rats" damn this is stupid. They weren't paying attention during the "circle of life" scene in Lion King. Every creature exists for a reason. Everything is kept in harmony. Disturb that balance, and you'll have issues. --- The best posts, believe me. <cite>Caution999 posted [p:914049865] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>gp1829 posted...</cite> <quote>Are people in this topic actually debating the merits of "a really big fire to kill all the rats" damn this is stupid.</quote> They weren't paying attention during the "circle of life" scene in Lion King. Every creature exists for a reason. Everything is kept in harmony. Disturb that balance, and you'll have issues.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 12/13/18 9:09:50 AM #149:	Caution999 posted... Every creature exists for a reason. Everything is kept in harmony. Disturb that balance, and you'll have issues. This is the dumbest shit I've read in a l- Caution999 posted... And this is how I know there's a God. The way this world was designed is too precise for all of this to have been random. Oh right _ --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair. https://imgtc.com/i/14JHfrt.jpg <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:914050194] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>Caution999 posted...</cite> <quote> Every creature exists for a reason. Everything is kept in harmony. Disturb that balance, and you'll have issues.</quote> This is the dumbest shit I've read in a l- <cite>Caution999 posted...</cite> <quote> And this is how I know there's a God. The way this world was designed is too precise for all of this to have been random.</quote> Oh right _</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Rikiaz 12/13/18 9:12:27 AM #150:	Caution999 posted... gp1829 posted... Are people in this topic actually debating the merits of "a really big fire to kill all the rats" damn this is stupid. They weren't paying attention during the "circle of life" scene in Lion King. Every creature exists for a reason. Everything is kept in harmony. Disturb that balance, and you'll have issues. And this is how I know there's a God. The way this world was designed is too precise for all of this to have been random. Im not going to tell you not to believe, but just to say a different point of view; the world isnt designed precisely, everything that doesnt serve a purpose just dies off eventually. --- From the depths, the thing they called Worm King did rise. Nirn itself did scream in the Mages' and Necromancers' war. <cite>Rikiaz posted [p:914050293] in 12,000 peo... [t:77294675]...</cite> <quote><cite>Caution999 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>gp1829 posted...</cite> <quote>Are people in this topic actually debating the merits of "a really big fire to kill all the rats" damn this is stupid.</quote> They weren't paying attention during the "circle of life" scene in Lion King. Every creature exists for a reason. Everything is kept in harmony. Disturb that balance, and you'll have issues. And this is how I know there's a God. The way this world was designed is too precise for all of this to have been random.</quote> Im not going to tell you not to believe, but just to say a different point of view; the world isnt designed precisely, everything that doesnt serve a purpose just dies off eventually.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > 12,000 people or all cats. You must sacrifice one. (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > 12,000 people or all cats. You must sacrifice one.