Current Events > Girl declared braindead, family fighting to keep her alive

(+) Yeah! (+)

Funkydog posted...

Or the patients family sneaks in some ciggies to the patient on oxygen then blames you when something bad happens.

I had a COPD exacerbation patient sneak out to smoke.
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Or the patient with horribly uncontrolled diabetes. Their family sneaks in snacks all night, even when they're NPO for a procedure.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

Funkydog posted...

Or the patients family sneaks in some ciggies to the patient on oxygen then blames you when something bad happens.

I had a COPD exacerbation patient sneak out to smoke.

Oh, used to that. Had loads of them do that, but with this one they snuck them in (despite them being warned about the dangers) and then blamed us for the result. Ended up having to ban them from visiting unfortunately as they refused to see sense and started getting violent.

The patient was a wonderful fella himself though. Just a stubborn git in regards to smoking.
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Or the IV drug user patient with endocarditis who saves his pain meds in his mouth, crushes them up and injects them via his PICC line.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

joestarrr posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

joestarrr posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

Oh wait I'm not a doctor just forget all that jargon I just used

Its okay you can be on booty duty with me since were both imbeciles and know nothing about healthcare so we should just wipe c diff booty all day and thats all some of us do (according to people who dont know anything)

Nursing. Saving and wiping ass daily.

Smh how am I supposed to save the ass when I turn someone and then have to ambu bag them because their o2 is in the 70s and their ventilator is cranked up all the way

I cant wait to become a mid level so I can still get called nurse and have people think Im still on booty duty

Are you an LPN

Nope, RN with a bachelors.
Going to get my DNP after I finish my Masters and be a nurse practitioner.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

Then the family medicine resident on their only ICU rotation comes in and tells you to "increase the oxygen" on the patient with hypercapnic respiratory failure. Then he cranks of the RR to like 50 and the patient goes alkalotic.

Then the Internal Medicine attending is like "what the fuck, man"

LOL that too. Fortunately I rarely see too many patients in that situation but it seems like most of my ventilated patients that have ABGs drawn are alkalotic i wonder why /s
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Fam_Fam posted...

Mareen posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

This is not appropriate or acceptable use of limited medical resources. Payer source is irrelevant.

This.

sure it is. they are paying for the bed / treatment / staff. they can have them do what they want.

"Yes, we're sorry, but your daughter can't be admitted in our hospital for her cancer treatment, because our last available bed is being used by someone who is letting their dead child rot in it. But it's okay, they paid for it."

Like others have said, it's not appropiate or acceptable use of resources, since they are better used/spend elsewhere.
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Funkydog posted...

Or the patients family sneaks in some ciggies to the patient on oxygen then blames you when something bad happens.

What are ciggies?
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joestarrr posted...

Nope, RN with a bachelors.
Going to get my DNP after I finish my Masters and be a nurse practitioner.

Is that not already a nurse then? The various differences between countries can be confusing at times.
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joestarrr posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

joestarrr posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

joestarrr posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

Oh wait I'm not a doctor just forget all that jargon I just used

Its okay you can be on booty duty with me since were both imbeciles and know nothing about healthcare so we should just wipe c diff booty all day and thats all some of us do (according to people who dont know anything)

Nursing. Saving and wiping ass daily.

Smh how am I supposed to save the ass when I turn someone and then have to ambu bag them because their o2 is in the 70s and their ventilator is cranked up all the way

I cant wait to become a mid level so I can still get called nurse and have people think Im still on booty duty

Are you an LPN

Nope, RN with a bachelors.
Going to get my DNP after I finish my Masters and be a nurse practitioner.

What is DNP?
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SuperMedz3 posted...

joestarrr posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

joestarrr posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

joestarrr posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

Oh wait I'm not a doctor just forget all that jargon I just used

Its okay you can be on booty duty with me since were both imbeciles and know nothing about healthcare so we should just wipe c diff booty all day and thats all some of us do (according to people who dont know anything)

Nursing. Saving and wiping ass daily.

Smh how am I supposed to save the ass when I turn someone and then have to ambu bag them because their o2 is in the 70s and their ventilator is cranked up all the way

I cant wait to become a mid level so I can still get called nurse and have people think Im still on booty duty

Are you an LPN

Nope, RN with a bachelors.
Going to get my DNP after I finish my Masters and be a nurse practitioner.

What is DNP?

Doctorate of Nurse Practitioner

Basically the ultimate authority on ass wiping.
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Im already a nurse yes, but a DNP (doctorate of nursing practice) would allow me to practice at a higher level of care than a bedside nurse. Nurse practitioners play a role similar to that of a physicians assistant and is not the same as being a nurse.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

Basically the ultimate authority on ass wiping.

I have to say that some posters on this board might be able to challenge that position.
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Wasn't there recently a story about a person who was declared brain dead and the organs to be used for 5 other patients, but the next day the person woke up?
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This is why, when you are old enough, make a legal will for these situations. I would not want to be kept alive under these conditions and my whole family is aware of it.
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loafy013 posted...

This is why, when you are old enough, make a legal will for these situations. I would not want to be kept alive under these conditions and my whole family is aware of it.

That would be a living will, and I think that varies at the state level anyway.
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NPs are not, in fact, ass wipers tho lol
Neither are PAs

Far from the autonomy of a physician, well above a bedside nurse in terms of that. Hence, mid level is often used to describe both.
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joestarrr posted...

NPs are not, in fact, ass wipers tho lol
Neither are PAs

Far from the autonomy of a physician, well above a bedside nurse in terms of that. Hence, mid level is often used to describe both.

I was joking lol

Although most people go by APRN
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@Coffeebeanz what kind of patients do you take care of?
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I just feel bad for the hospital and staff that have to deal with this stuff.

For all the people defending the family, there is absolutely no defense.

She is not in a coma, she's not a vegetable, she is literally brain dead. There is a difference. The difference is that she is LITERALLY dead. The rest of her organs are only working because she is being artificially supported on life support. There is 0% chance of recovery.

Complete waste of resources. That same bed could be used for a dying kid who can be saved.
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PhazonReborn posted...

Thanks for sharing this horrible story that ruined my day TC

we're sorry :(
i had a rough day yesterday but it doesn't compare to TC's story. my water got turned off for 6 hours. my electric got turned off 3 times by maintenance people (just wanted to watch hulu) and have drinking water for me and my dog.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

joestarrr posted...

NPs are not, in fact, ass wipers tho lol
Neither are PAs

Far from the autonomy of a physician, well above a bedside nurse in terms of that. Hence, mid level is often used to describe both.

I was joking lol

No I know YOU were

Besides the ultimate authority on booty duty is Brenda, that CNA always in the break room who will flat out ignore you asking for help but think she owns the damn place

CE is illiterate though and were both probably LIARS anyway
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SuperMedz3 posted...

@Coffeebeanz what kind of patients do you take care of?

Inpatients. Admitted patients who are not in the ICU, basically.

And surgical patients mostly because surgeons are too lazy to write their own History and Physicals.
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DanHarenChamp posted...

I just feel bad for the hospital and staff that have to deal with this stuff.

For all the people defending the family, there is absolutely no defense.

She is not in a coma, she's not a vegetable, she is literally brain dead. There is a difference. The difference is that she is LITERALLY dead. The rest of her organs are only working because she is being artificially supported on life support. There is 0% chance of recovery.

Complete waste of resources. That same bed could be used for a dying kid who can be saved.

Not just a kid. Anyone
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joestarrr posted...

Im already a nurse yes, but a DNP (doctorate of nursing practice) would allow me to practice at a higher level of care than a bedside nurse. Nurse practitioners play a role similar to that of a physicians assistant and is not the same as being a nurse.

Oh, I get that. And checking back, realise I completely read something you said wrong so ignore me >.>

But good luck on getting up the ladder. Been tempted to go that way myself as well.
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joestarrr posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

joestarrr posted...

NPs are not, in fact, ass wipers tho lol
Neither are PAs

Far from the autonomy of a physician, well above a bedside nurse in terms of that. Hence, mid level is often used to describe both.

I was joking lol

No I know YOU were

Besides the ultimate authority on booty duty is Brenda, that CNA always in the break room who will flat out ignore you asking for help but think she owns the damn place

CE is illiterate though and were both probably LIARS anyway

You ever notice how Nephrology does one of three things - add water, take water away, or dialysis?
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AngelSeven posted...

If she's braindead, she's already gone. It's cruel to allow her to suffer any further.

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Funkydog posted...

joestarrr posted...

Im already a nurse yes, but a DNP (doctorate of nursing practice) would allow me to practice at a higher level of care than a bedside nurse. Nurse practitioners play a role similar to that of a physicians assistant and is not the same as being a nurse.

Oh, I get that. And checking back, realise I completely read something you said wrong so ignore me >.>

But good luck on getting up the ladder. Been tempted to go that way myself as well.

What ladder were you tempted with?
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Coffeebeanz posted...

joestarrr posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

joestarrr posted...

NPs are not, in fact, ass wipers tho lol
Neither are PAs

Far from the autonomy of a physician, well above a bedside nurse in terms of that. Hence, mid level is often used to describe both.

I was joking lol

No I know YOU were

Besides the ultimate authority on booty duty is Brenda, that CNA always in the break room who will flat out ignore you asking for help but think she owns the damn place

CE is illiterate though and were both probably LIARS anyway

You ever notice how Nephrology does one of three things - add water, take water away, or dialysis?

Don't forget the saline, unless that's what you're referring to as water.
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LightHawKnight posted...

Wasn't there recently a story about a person who was declared brain dead and the organs to be used for 5 other patients, but the next day the person woke up?

I think you're thinking about "legally dead"
there are people who have been classified as legally dead, with traumatic/borderline unsurvivable injuries or illnesses (that would otherwise kill the normal man or the mortality rate is usually defined as high)... and managed to survive.
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Kineth posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

joestarrr posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

joestarrr posted...

NPs are not, in fact, ass wipers tho lol
Neither are PAs

Far from the autonomy of a physician, well above a bedside nurse in terms of that. Hence, mid level is often used to describe both.

I was joking lol

No I know YOU were

Besides the ultimate authority on booty duty is Brenda, that CNA always in the break room who will flat out ignore you asking for help but think she owns the damn place

CE is illiterate though and were both probably LIARS anyway

You ever notice how Nephrology does one of three things - add water, take water away, or dialysis?

Don't forget the saline, unless that's what you're referring to as water.

"I spent an hour calculating the Free Water Deficit!"

"Give a 1 L bolus of NS"
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SuperMedz3 posted...

What ladder were you tempted with?

Mental health is another option I've been tempted with myself, due to having needed plenty of support in that myself and seeing the dire state of the NHS (in general, not just mental health mind) so wanted to give back and help others who would need it.
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Real Science Radio's list of "brain dead" patients who've recovered tells shows that doctors and hospitals are sometimes dead wrong.

August 2016 - Nineteen days after her car flipped over, the doctors of 22-year-old Sam Hemming were about to give up on her because she was obviously brain dead "with no hope of recovery". Yet moments before she would likely have died from their withdrawing her care, Sam wiggling her toe. From there, fighting back, she made a tremendous recovery in only weeks. Mental and physical exercise has reprogrammed the undamaged side of her brain! (The only sad part of this story is that Sam still plans on becoming a lawyer! :)

Des Moines Blankety Blank Children's Hospital harvests the organs of living children, cuts out their eyes, etc.
May 2015 - In Des Moines, Iowa as reported by USA Today, "Taylor's brain sank part way into her spinal canal. No one comes back from that, the doctors told Taylor's mother, Stacy, and her father, Chuck Hale. Nothing more could be done. Their daughter was brain dead. It was time to make arrangements to take her off life support and discuss organ donation. ... Taylor Hale, considered brain dead by science, awoke from her coma. ... " So the staff doctors will harvest organs, cut out the eyes, etc., of living children at the Des Moines Blank Children's Hospital, hereafter known as Blankity Blank Hospital. See also this, this, this, this, and this.

Texas' Tomball Regional Medical CenterJanuary 2015 - George Pickering, a 27-year old Texan, was pronounced brain dead by doctors at the Tomball Regional Medical Center when his father threatened to shoot himself if anyone disconnected his son from life support. During the standoff with police, the son repeatedly squeezed his father's hand, and then woke up later that evening, has made a strong recovery, and in April was baptized after converting to Christianity.

July 2013 - A New York woman who was pronounced brain dead by doctors unexpectedly awoke just as her organs were about to be removed for transplant.

October 2012 - A documentary titled Pigen der ikke ville d (The girl who refused to die), aired on Danish TV, telling the story of 19-year-old Carina Melchior, who awoke after doctors declared her "brain dead" and had approached the family about considering donating her organs.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

Kineth posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

joestarrr posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

joestarrr posted...

NPs are not, in fact, ass wipers tho lol
Neither are PAs

Far from the autonomy of a physician, well above a bedside nurse in terms of that. Hence, mid level is often used to describe both.

I was joking lol

No I know YOU were

Besides the ultimate authority on booty duty is Brenda, that CNA always in the break room who will flat out ignore you asking for help but think she owns the damn place

CE is illiterate though and were both probably LIARS anyway

You ever notice how Nephrology does one of three things - add water, take water away, or dialysis?

Don't forget the saline, unless that's what you're referring to as water.

"I spent an hour calculating the Free Water Deficit!"

"Give a 1 L bolus of NS"

LMAO
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April 2012 - Doctors declared british teen Stephen Thorpe "brain dead," telling the father that the boy would never recover from a serious car accident. Despite pressure from the doctors, the father would not consent to allow the boys organs to be donated. With the help of other doctors, five weeks later Thorpe left the hospital, having almost completely recovered.

July 2011 - Madeleine Gauron, a Quebec woman identified as viable for organ donation after doctors diagnosed her as "brain dead" surprised her family and physicians when she recovered from a coma, opened her eyes, and began eating.

May 2011 - An Australian woman declared brain dead regained consciousness after family fought for weeks doctor recommendations that her ventilator be shut off.

February 2008 - 65-year-old Raleane Kupferschmidt was taken home to die after relatives were told by doctors that she was "brain dead" from a massive cerebral hemorrhage. The family had already begun to grieve and plan for her funeral when she suddenly awoke and was rushed back to the hospital.

March 2008 - In one particularly chilling case, 21-year-old Zack Dunlap, who was declared "brain dead" following an ATV accident, recounted how he remembers hearing doctors discussing harvesting his organs. Zack showed signs of life only moments before he was scheduled to be wheeled into the operating theater to have his organs removed. One of Zacks relatives provoked the reaction by digging a pocketknife under his fingernail.

May 2008 - A Virginia family was shocked but relieved when their mother, Val Thomas, woke up after doctors declared her brain dead. Doctors had not detected brain waves for more than 17 hours, but kept the woman breathing on a respirator. The family was discussing organ donation options for their mother when she suddenly woke up and started speaking to nurses.

June 2008 - A Parisian whose organs were about to be removed by doctors after he had "died" of a heart attack, revived on the operating table only minutes before doctors were to begin harvesting his organs.

https://kgov.com/brain-dead-patients-who-have-recovered
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Coffeebeanz posted...

Kineth posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

joestarrr posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

joestarrr posted...

NPs are not, in fact, ass wipers tho lol
Neither are PAs

Far from the autonomy of a physician, well above a bedside nurse in terms of that. Hence, mid level is often used to describe both.

I was joking lol

No I know YOU were

Besides the ultimate authority on booty duty is Brenda, that CNA always in the break room who will flat out ignore you asking for help but think she owns the damn place

CE is illiterate though and were both probably LIARS anyway

You ever notice how Nephrology does one of three things - add water, take water away, or dialysis?

Don't forget the saline, unless that's what you're referring to as water.

"I spent an hour calculating the Free Water Deficit!"

"Give a 1 L bolus of NS"

lol.. fair enough. Shit, when I got hospitalized with severe ketoacidosis, they gave me more than just saline. iirc, I had an IV drip with KCl and a magnesium salt as well. Sounds like I was given more kidney care than what those patients you're describing received.
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Well yeah because insulin causes an intracellular shift of potassium, resuling in hypokalemia. You gotta start potassium pretty quickly on a DKA patient unless they're really hyperkalemic from the metabolic acidosis.
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Sorry I just made all that up because I'm a pretend doctor.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

Well yeah because insulin causes an intracellular shift of potassium, resuling in hypokalemia. You gotta start potassium pretty quickly on a DKA patient unless they're really hyperkalemic from the metabolic acidosis.

Yup
Speaking of hyperkalemia, have you heard the fun way to learn the usual treatments?
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Is there a mnemonic?

If your K is too great, don't wait, gluconate and kayexalate?
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"Doctors are occasionally wrong about declaring dead, so assume they're wrong" is exactly what I'd expect from Christian radio with an agenda masquerading as "real science".

This is the kind of shit that promotes the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Being related to a probably dead person does not give you a +10 boost to intelligence.
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hockeybub89 posted...

"Doctors are occasionally wrong about declaring dead, so assume they're wrong" is exactly what I'd expect from Christian radio with an agenda masquerading as "real science".

This is the kind of shit that promotes the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Being related to a probably dead person does not give you a +10 boost to intelligence.

Doctors are occasionally wrong. Laymen are usually wrong.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

Well yeah because insulin causes an intracellular shift of potassium, resuling in hypokalemia. You gotta start potassium pretty quickly on a DKA patient unless they're really hyperkalemic from the metabolic acidosis.

While I didn't quite get the specifics on the biochemistry, and thank you for explaining that, I did know that there's obviously quite a bit more involved in a patient in such a state. That said, I was having renal failure during that episode and, if nothing else, I would think that nephrologists might use some similar methods on their own patients.

Then again, I'd have to imagine that someone with a kidney disease that isn't related to diabetes should probably have some other shit looked at as well as some more comprehensive treatment than a simple saline drip.

Coffeebeanz posted...

Sorry I just made all that up because I'm a pretend doctor.

Why are you doing this
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karlpilkington4 posted...

April 2012 - Doctors declared british teen Stephen Thorpe "brain dead," telling the father that the boy would never recover from a serious car accident. Despite pressure from the doctors, the father would not consent to allow the boys organs to be donated. With the help of other doctors, five weeks later Thorpe left the hospital, having almost completely recovered.

July 2011 - Madeleine Gauron, a Quebec woman identified as viable for organ donation after doctors diagnosed her as "brain dead" surprised her family and physicians when she recovered from a coma, opened her eyes, and began eating.

May 2011 - An Australian woman declared brain dead regained consciousness after family fought for weeks doctor recommendations that her ventilator be shut off.

February 2008 - 65-year-old Raleane Kupferschmidt was taken home to die after relatives were told by doctors that she was "brain dead" from a massive cerebral hemorrhage. The family had already begun to grieve and plan for her funeral when she suddenly awoke and was rushed back to the hospital.

March 2008 - In one particularly chilling case, 21-year-old Zack Dunlap, who was declared "brain dead" following an ATV accident, recounted how he remembers hearing doctors discussing harvesting his organs. Zack showed signs of life only moments before he was scheduled to be wheeled into the operating theater to have his organs removed. One of Zacks relatives provoked the reaction by digging a pocketknife under his fingernail.

May 2008 - A Virginia family was shocked but relieved when their mother, Val Thomas, woke up after doctors declared her brain dead. Doctors had not detected brain waves for more than 17 hours, but kept the woman breathing on a respirator. The family was discussing organ donation options for their mother when she suddenly woke up and started speaking to nurses.

June 2008 - A Parisian whose organs were about to be removed by doctors after he had "died" of a heart attack, revived on the operating table only minutes before doctors were to begin harvesting his organs.

https://kgov.com/brain-dead-patients-who-have-recovered

Some of these are brain injuries though.
Apparently even if some parts of the brain are destroyed/non-functional...
People have been known to survive it.
Whether it's an infestation of maggots (or other small insects) eating away bits and pieces of persons brain, to head injuries or even the brain pierced by foreign objects like bullets or knives (possibly tubes, pipes and other large/long objects), some people can simply survive it.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

Is there a mnemonic?

If your K is too great, don't wait, gluconate and kayexalate?

D
I
C
K

Dextrose, insulin, calcium gluconate, kayexalate
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Interesting. I think I did have a calcium salt in one of my IVs as well. Not sure how comfortable I am with the idea of a styrofoam-ish chemical being used intraveneously, but if it works, it works, I guess.
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Like I said, there is a difference between actual brain death, coma, and persistent vegetative state. Likely whats happening is miscommunication honestly. Maybe one doctor tells the family that the patient is 'likely' brain dead or in a coma. Family might misinterpret it as "doctors told us she is brain dead and won't recover". That is different than doing the brain death exams and officially declaring brain death. And organ donation people get involved even before brain death is announced so that doesn't mean anything.

Theres alot of unknown areas in all those miracle scenarios where you really can't jump to conclusions.
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Kineth posted...

Interesting. I think I did have a calcium salt in one of my IVs as well. Not sure how comfortable I am with the idea of a styrofoam-ish chemical being used intraveneously, but if it works, it works, I guess.

.....styrofoam-ish chemical?

Calcium is a metal.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

Kineth posted...

Interesting. I think I did have a calcium salt in one of my IVs as well. Not sure how comfortable I am with the idea of a styrofoam-ish chemical being used intraveneously, but if it works, it works, I guess.

.....styrofoam-ish chemical?

Calcium is a metal.

I'm referring to the kayexalate in regard to the styrofoam-ish chemical, since it's polystyrene sulfonate.
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Kineth posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

Kineth posted...

Interesting. I think I did have a calcium salt in one of my IVs as well. Not sure how comfortable I am with the idea of a styrofoam-ish chemical being used intraveneously, but if it works, it works, I guess.

.....styrofoam-ish chemical?

Calcium is a metal.

I'm referring to the kayexalate in regard to the styrofoamish chemical.

Oh. That's not IV, though. It's oral. Supposed to give you diarrhea so you poop out potassium. It's indigestible.
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