Current Events > To anyone who says the death penalty shouldnt exist: look at the toolbox killer

(+) Yeah! (+)

And the transcript of Shirley Lynette Ledford. If you read that and dont think the abuser should be executed, you are heartless.

Acceleration posted...

And the transcript of Shirley Lynette Ledford. If you read that and dont think the abuser should be executed, you are heartless.

that's right, but i don't think the masses will listen to reason.
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How many toolboxes did they kill.
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That's not the reason I'm against the death penalty. The fact that 4% of people on death row right now are innocent is why I'm against it.
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I haven't read the transcript, but I doubt it'd change my opinion on being against capital punishment
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kingdrake2 posted...

that's right, but i don't think the masses will listen to reason.

*emotion

Couldn't fucking finish the transcript. I stopped when he put the pliers in her. Death would be wayyy to easy a way out for that fucking animal. Thanks.

My afternoon is ruined.
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You think that's bad you should look up the Trinity killer. Dude would bury little kids.
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Retribution killings are nothing more than revenge and don't actually do anything to benefit society. I'm guessing his killings were brutal? All the more reason to demonstrate that we are better than those actions.

The death penalty costs too much, has biases, executes innocents, and it is controversial if it's even a deterrent. There are many reasons not to like the death penalty, and a killer who was especially brutal doesn't change that.

For the record, I haven't read the transcripts, so maybe I'm just assuming things here. What do the transcripts say?
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Original night stalker too
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LookANinja posted...

You think that's bad you should look up the Trinity killer. Dude would bury little kids.

Is there a real Trinity Killer? I only saw him in Dexter.
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username191 posted...

Retribution killings are nothing more than revenge and don't actually do anything to benefit society. I'm guessing his killings were brutal? All the more reason to demonstrate that we are better than those actions.

The death penalty costs too much, has biases, executes innocents, and it is controversial if it's even a deterrent. There are many reasons not to like the death penalty, and a killer who was especially brutal doesn't change that.

For the record, I haven't read the transcripts, so maybe I'm just assuming things here. What do the transcripts say?

We put rabid dogs down. Same case here should apply with humans. GTFO with 'revenge' killings. People like that have no right being apart of human society anymore.
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username191 posted...

What do the transcripts say?

They say that some actions are so heinous that the people who commit them should should be made to suffer to the extent their victims suffered.

In my eyes that is the only way to achieve justice.
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Broseph_Stalin posted...

kingdrake2 posted...

that's right, but i don't think the masses will listen to reason.

*emotion

want to know who else has emotion?
our moms!. whoo.
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Garioshi posted...

That's not the reason I'm against the death penalty. The fact that 4% of people on death row right now are innocent is why I'm against it.

Theres also the fact that on average, it costs quite a bit more to sentence someone to death than it does to simply imprison them for life. But that there are so many innocent people condemned to death for crimes they didnt commit is certainly the bigger issue here.
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Garioshi posted...

That's not the reason I'm against the death penalty. The fact that 4% of people on death row right now are innocent is why I'm against it.

This guy isnt. Does he deserve life?
emblem boy posted...

I haven't read the transcript, but I doubt it'd change my opinion on being against capital punishment

Then quit being willfully ignorant of the matter at hand. The death penalty is necessary for people like this.
username191 posted...

Retribution killings are nothing more than revenge and don't actually do anything to benefit society. I'm guessing his killings were brutal? All the more reason to demonstrate that we are better than those actions.

The death penalty costs too much, has biases, executes innocents, and it is controversial if it's even a deterrent. There are many reasons not to like the death penalty, and a killer who was especially brutal doesn't change that.

For the record, I haven't read the transcripts, so maybe I'm just assuming things here. What do the transcripts say?

And the killer thanks people like you. Heres a quote from an interview-
Interviewer: Do you have any remorse for killing those girls?

Killer: Yes. Yes. Yes. How many times do I have to tell you? Nobody is going to believe it. Im not happy I got caught.

Your mentality is exactly what a psychopath wants. He wants you to be noble and dignified so that he can be rehabilitated and let out to fulfill his sick perversions.

Omega Hunter posted...

They say that some actions are so heinous that the people who commit them should should be made to suffer to the extent their victims suffered.

In my eyes that is the only way to achieve justice.

It has to be 'eye for & eye' + interest.

We need to instill so much fear into other criminals, that others would be scared to death and absolutely stupid to commit that kind of crime ever again!

That's the only way true justice can be served.
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0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

Garioshi posted...

That's not the reason I'm against the death penalty. The fact that 4% of people on death row right now are innocent is why I'm against it.

Theres also the fact that on average, it costs quite a bit more to sentence someone to death than it does to simply imprison them for life. But that there are so many innocent people condemned to death for crimes they didnt commit is certainly the bigger issue here.

Please, read the transcript and then tell me that with a straight face.

I didn't say anything about letting the person out. If they're a threat to society that's different than deciding to kill someone who is no longer a threat.

An eye for an eye makes the world go blind. Turning into what you hate doesn't solve anything.
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Acceleration posted...

He wants you to be noble and dignified so that he can be rehabilitated and let out to fulfill his sick perversions.

...he killed knowing full well he'd get the death penalty if caught.

Acceleration posted...

Please, read the transcript and then tell me that with a straight face.

You're REALLY bad at arguing holy shit.

KamenRiderBlade posted...

It has to be 'eye for & eye' + interest.

We need to instill so much fear into other criminals, that others would be scared to death and absolutely stupid to commit that kind of crime ever again!

That's the only way true justice can be served.

I agree a guy like that should be flayed alive ah la the Boltons from game of thrones
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username191 posted...

An eye for an eye makes the world go blind. Turning into what you hate doesn't solve anything.

Killing the evil does NOT make you evil.

The allies were not evil for killing Nazis.

Do people really believes this dumb shit?
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Acceleration posted...

0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

Garioshi posted...

That's not the reason I'm against the death penalty. The fact that 4% of people on death row right now are innocent is why I'm against it.

Theres also the fact that on average, it costs quite a bit more to sentence someone to death than it does to simply imprison them for life. But that there are so many innocent people condemned to death for crimes they didnt commit is certainly the bigger issue here.

Please, read the transcript and then tell me that with a straight face.

Im not arguing whether this specific guy deserves to be put to death. Given that 1 in 25 death row inmates are actually innocent of the crime they were sentenced for, and that it costs the taxpayers a lot more to go the death penalty route, Im arguing that its in societys best interest to forego the death penalty. Its not like life in prison is much of a life for this guy anyway.
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your judgement is being clouded by your enotions
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Omega Hunter posted...

Do people really believes this dumb shit?

You'll be surprised at the dumb shit people out there believe.
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Rehabilitation and re-education would be the best thing. If we could put someone back into society with a new or valuable skillset, we wouldn't have to wait years for someone to be born who could do it.
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The FBI used to, or still does, use the recording of one of the tool box killers murders as a way to desensitize their agents.

Pure evil. Criminal psychology is fascinating.
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0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

Given that 1 in 25 death row inmates are actually innocent of the crime they were sentenced for

How many children that were aborted were actually innocent?

I'm still pro choice, but let's be honest on what we call abortion.

It's a taking of innocent life, life that if left to maturation would be a full human eventually.

Taking out people who have done heinous acts should be a huge benefit from society.

And if the person was really innocent, then go through the court process to free them.

That's what the court process is there for.

And yeah, IMO, Death Penalty is necessary and money well spent.
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There are absolutely horrendous people out there, yes. I am still and will always be wholeheartedly opposed to the death penalty, because I don't think states should be in the business of executing people who pose no threat (by virtue of the fact that they can be imprisoned indefinitely) and because there exists the real possibility of executing innocent people who have been falsely convicted. If killing people is bad (and it is), we should do everything we can to reduce killings.
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

I'm still pro choice, but let's be honest on what we call abortion.

you first

LightningAce11 posted...

Rehabilitation and re-education would be the best thing. If we could put someone back into society with a new or valuable skillset, we wouldn't have to wait years for someone to be born who could do it.

Not everybody is worth the time and effort given the heinous crimes they've committed.
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username191 posted...

I didn't say anything about letting the person out. If they're a threat to society that's different than deciding to kill someone who is no longer a threat.

An eye for an eye makes the world go blind. Turning into what you hate doesn't solve anything.

Except now, the only ones blinded are the innocent. The thing is, they dont deserve life. The things this person did to even just this one victim are enough to warrant his execution, let alone the other 20+ people he abused.
Broseph_Stalin posted...

Acceleration posted...

He wants you to be noble and dignified so that he can be rehabilitated and let out to fulfill his sick perversions.

...he killed knowing full well he'd get the death penalty if caught.

He killed because hes psychotic, delusional scum. The death penalty was the last thing on his mind when he was with his victims. The only rational reason to not think that the toolbox killer deserves death is ignorance. Other than that, everyone advocating for his life are heartless, sadistic individuals.

So we should have a form of punishment that will statistically end the lives of innocents just to make sure that someone who is really bad gets to be killed instead of spending the rest of his life in a prison cell.

The issue with capital punishment isn't that there aren't certain people who deserve to be permanently removed from society, there definitely are, but that our justice system is not infallible. It fucks up on occasion. When you give it a permanent tool to punish people with, then its fuck ups become permanent. If it wrongly convicts someone with life in prison, that's still terrible, but at least there is a chance to fix it's fuck up.

I would rather have the every Toolbox Killer ever not be executed, even if they really deserve it, if it means that nobody is being wrongfully murdered by the government.
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The real usefulness of the death penalty is plea bargaining. When someone faces the death penalty, they often plead guilty in exchange for a life sentence, which saves the cost of a lengthy process.
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Omega Hunter posted...

username191 posted...

An eye for an eye makes the world go blind. Turning into what you hate doesn't solve anything.

Killing the evil does NOT make you evil.

The allies were not evil for killing Nazis.

If there was a way to imprison the Nazis without killing them and avoiding a war that way, that would have been the better option too. We aren't talking about a war though, we're talking about someone who has been captured and is no longer a threat. Killing is excess force.
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Broseph_Stalin posted...

KamenRiderBlade posted...

I'm still pro choice, but let's be honest on what we call abortion.

you first

It's taking of a innocent life for the convenience/long term benefits of the biological parents for whatever circumstance they may be in that necessitates justifying it's action.
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Acceleration posted...

Other than that, everyone advocating for his life are heartless, sadistic individuals.

You are literally arguing for killing innocent people, stop projecting.

KamenRiderBlade posted...

t's taking of a innocent life

nope

username191 posted...

If there was a way to imprison the Nazis without killing them and avoiding a war that way, that would have been the better option too. We aren't talking about a war though, we're talking about someone who has been captured and is no longer a threat. Killing is excess force.

They still have the crimes they've committed by being part of the Nazi Organization. That alone should be justifiable enough given the atrocities they've committed.
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Broseph_Stalin posted...

nope

Then why don't you say it then.
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Acceleration posted...

Garioshi posted...

That's not the reason I'm against the death penalty. The fact that 4% of people on death row right now are innocent is why I'm against it.

This guy isnt. Does he deserve life?
emblem boy posted...

I haven't read the transcript, but I doubt it'd change my opinion on being against capital punishment

Then quit being willfully ignorant of the matter at hand. The death penalty is necessary for people like this.
username191 posted...

Retribution killings are nothing more than revenge and don't actually do anything to benefit society. I'm guessing his killings were brutal? All the more reason to demonstrate that we are better than those actions.

The death penalty costs too much, has biases, executes innocents, and it is controversial if it's even a deterrent. There are many reasons not to like the death penalty, and a killer who was especially brutal doesn't change that.

For the record, I haven't read the transcripts, so maybe I'm just assuming things here. What do the transcripts say?

And the killer thanks people like you. Heres a quote from an interview-
Interviewer: Do you have any remorse for killing those girls?

Killer: Yes. Yes. Yes. How many times do I have to tell you? Nobody is going to believe it. Im not happy I got caught.

Your mentality is exactly what a psychopath wants. He wants you to be noble and dignified so that he can be rehabilitated and let out to fulfill his sick perversions.

He'll be in prison for life. How is his death necessary?
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Gheb posted...

I would rather have the every Toolbox Killer ever not be executed, even if they really deserve it, if it means that nobody is being wrongfully murdered by the government.

I guess I feel the exact opposite.

Every convicted murderer needs to be taken out for good. Any threat of hurting society AGAIN is too great.

If it means 1 or 2 people who slip past the VERY LONG and METICULOUS court system, so be it.
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0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

Acceleration posted...

0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

Garioshi posted...

That's not the reason I'm against the death penalty. The fact that 4% of people on death row right now are innocent is why I'm against it.

Theres also the fact that on average, it costs quite a bit more to sentence someone to death than it does to simply imprison them for life. But that there are so many innocent people condemned to death for crimes they didnt commit is certainly the bigger issue here.

Please, read the transcript and then tell me that with a straight face.

Im not arguing whether this specific guy deserves to be put to death. Given that 1 in 25 death row inmates are actually innocent of the crime they were sentenced for, and that it costs the taxpayers a lot more to go the death penalty route, Im arguing that its in societys best interest to forego the death penalty. Its not like life in prison is much of a life for this guy anyway.

Well I am talking about this one guy. A man who kidnapped, then brutally raped, while torturing his victim, followed by murder, and lastly displaying the body for the world to see. And he did this over 25 times. He also recordes himself doing so for some of the victims and has confessed to it. Are you saying he should be allowed to live?

KamenRiderBlade posted...

Gheb posted...

I would rather have the every Toolbox Killer ever not be executed, even if they really deserve it, if it means that nobody is being wrongfully murdered by the government.

I guess I feel the exact opposite.

Every convicted murderer needs to be taken out for good. Any threat of hurting society AGAIN is too great.

If it means 1 or 2 people who slip past the VERY LONG and METICULOUS court system, so be it.

Brah. Truly think about what you're saying here
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Acceleration posted...

Well I am talking about this one guy.

No, you're talking about all people sentenced to death.

https://owlcation.com/social-sciences/Killers-Who-Kill-Again
http://www.wesleylowe.com/repoff.html
https://www.ranker.com/list/paroled-murderers-who-killed-again/jacob-shelton
https://www.monstersandcritics.com/list/living/10-twisted-murderers-who-were-freed-then-killed-again/
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-16638227
https://listverse.com/2016/03/20/10-terrible-multiple-murderers-who-were-released-from-prison/

I'm not willing to risk more lives lost because you wanted to "Rehabilitate and try to save them and make them a productive member of society".

Every life lost because a murderer was released just to murder again is on those who have a weak stance on taking out evil.
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We should not have a death penalty as long as innocent people are being executed.
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kinetika_ posted...

We put rabid dogs down.

a rabid dog is a lot more dangerous than a single sadistic individual.
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