Current Events > (Video) Police arrive to hostage situation...End up shooting hostage and suspect

(+) Yeah! (+)

A_Good_Boy posted...

Seems like a classic trolley car problem

You don't understand this scenario or the trolley problem.
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They should throw his murdering ass in prison, along with ppl who think he did the right thing.

Our police are horribly trained fuck ups.

eston posted...

VectorChaos posted...

"Hey we're gonna call the hostage negot--aaaaand she's dead."

Alright what's your next "better option". Hit me.

Maybe back off a little in order to buy her some time, because having your throat cut doesn't kill you immediately

Did you watch the video?

It was a large knife and he was sawing her throat. There was no "buying her time". They had to act. She was dead if they backed off, she was dead if they engaged without their guns most likely. The best case was to shoot and not hit her but that didn't happen.

They should have already shot this guy and who knows why the woman wasn't already taking off unless someone was telling her to stay put.

VectorChaos posted...

A_Good_Boy posted...

VectorChaos posted...

A_Good_Boy posted...

Once he took a hostage and put a weapon to her throat, why didn't the cops hold back and call in a professional to talk the man down? Idk man, you can sit there and make excuses for the cops shooting the hostage in the face, but there were better options. It doesn't make any sense to say that the man was probably going to kill her so the cops had no choice but to guarantee that she actually did die.

"Hey we're gonna call the hostage negot--aaaaand she's dead."

Alright what's your next "better option". Hit me.

I don't understand your point. Are you trying to say that killing the hostage themselves was the best thing to do? How is keeping their guns trained on him, barring his escape, and waiting for a negotiator, somehow worse than just outright shooting the hostage themselves?

He started cutting her throat

They had exactly right fucking now to make a decision. There was no waiting for a negotiator.

Next.

It's hard to tell because the cam is so shaky. But one thing was pretty clear: the cop with the cam was pretty much the only one with a clear shot. The other cops had nothing but a view of the hostage yet they chose to fire anyways. If all you call see is the hostage I don't know why you'd choose to fire.
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Dagon_0 posted...

They should throw his murdering ass in prison, along with ppl who think he did the right thing.

Our police are horribly trained fuck ups.

So what was the "right" thing to do?

Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

A_Good_Boy posted...

Seems like a classic trolley car problem

You don't understand this scenario or the trolley problem.

Go ahead and explain my error then.
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That first cop was real worried he shot the hostage. Hell sleep better knowing they all shot the hostage.
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Really shitty situation especially for the handicapped woman. She was probably too scared to even move.
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spanky1 posted...

What I'm wondering is why that lady was just standing there. Everyone should have cleared out and gotten far away from the guy.

she froze in fear :(. may that lady rest in peace.
police did all they could do in this situation from my POV.
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LordMarshal posted...

That first cop was real worried he shot the hostage. Hell sleep better knowing they all shot the hostage.

lmfao

oinks gonna oink
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I'm not your fucking philosophy teacher, they failed you years ago and I'm not getting paid.

_RETS_ posted...

So what was the "right" thing to do?

You guys aren't going to get an answer. Just curmudgeonly bitter trolls that want to bitch about cops.
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kingdrake2 posted...

spanky1 posted...

What I'm wondering is why that lady was just standing there. Everyone should have cleared out and gotten far away from the guy.

she froze in fear :(. may that lady rest in peace.
police did all they could do in this situation from my POV.

She a walker and . . . is that an O2 tank? I can't tell. Not exactly going to parkour her ass out of there.
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I can't blame them for their decision at the time they shot. It was do or die at that point.

I do suppose you could make a case for how they approached the situation to begin with, though. Is it possible they could have interacted with the guy from the very beginning in a calm manner and try to peacefully talk him down? Before any interaction with the lady happened, I mean.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

kingdrake2 posted...

spanky1 posted...

What I'm wondering is why that lady was just standing there. Everyone should have cleared out and gotten far away from the guy.

she froze in fear :(. may that lady rest in peace.
police did all they could do in this situation from my POV.

She a walker and . . . is that an O2 tank? I can't tell. Not exactly going to parkour her ass out of there.

Yeah I guess that's true.

I mean man, this entire situation almost feels like a scripted movie scene or something. You have a maniac bad guy who can't be reasoned with, an old helpless lady. It feels like something out of a Lethal Weapon movie or Robocop or something.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

I'm not your fucking philosophy teacher, they failed you years ago and I'm not getting paid.

"I don't know" is 3 words long. Be more concise next time.
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spanky1 posted...

I can't blame them for their decision at the time they shot. It was do or die at that point.

He had a knife. The cops were 100% safe.

Hosing down both of them was the fairest decision. Nothing personal.
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LordMarshal posted...

spanky1 posted...

I can't blame them for their decision at the time they shot. It was do or die at that point.

He had a knife. The cops were 100% safe.

Hosing down both of them was the fairest decision. Nothing personal.

I thought we were already past this line of argument. It was an active murder in progress. They had to open fire. That was the only option.

The fact that they hit the woman was a failure in skill, not in decision making.
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LordMarshal posted...

spanky1 posted...

I can't blame them for their decision at the time they shot. It was do or die at that point.

He had a knife. The cops were 100% safe.

Hosing down both of them was the fairest decision. Nothing personal.

But she was clearly not safe.

Arrive at a hostage situation? Did we watch the same video? They let him grab a hostage.
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It's pretty easy to look at this video and criticize this when in reality if anyone of us were there this situation wouldn't of ended up any better.

Heat of the moment thing
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apocalyptic_4 posted...

It's pretty easy to look at this video and criticize this when in reality if anyone of us were there this situation wouldn't of ended up any better.

Heat of the moment thing

If only they were trained.
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spanky1 posted...

What I'm wondering is why that lady was just standing there. Everyone should have cleared out and gotten far away from the guy.

Shes clearly elderly and has a walker, at that age theres probably not much distance she couldve put between her and then the assailant. She was probably frightened as well with three cops moving in with guns at the ready
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LordMarshal posted...

apocalyptic_4 posted...

It's pretty easy to look at this video and criticize this when in reality if anyone of us were there this situation wouldn't of ended up any better.

Heat of the moment thing

If only they were trained.

To do what? Explain what you think the course of action should have been.

Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

Just curmudgeonly bitter trolls that want to bitch

The ironing
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_RETS_ posted...

LordMarshal posted...

spanky1 posted...

I can't blame them for their decision at the time they shot. It was do or die at that point.

He had a knife. The cops were 100% safe.

Hosing down both of them was the fairest decision. Nothing personal.

But she was clearly not safe.

With cops like that, she was much safer before.
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_RETS_ posted...

LordMarshal posted...

apocalyptic_4 posted...

It's pretty easy to look at this video and criticize this when in reality if anyone of us were there this situation wouldn't of ended up any better.

Heat of the moment thing

If only they were trained.

To do what? Explain what you think the course of action should have been.

Not shoot when the only view you have is of the hostage would be a pretty good place to start. I don't see why the only cop with a view shouldn't be the only one to pull the trigger. What were the other cops even trying to do? Curve their bullets?
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El Mexicano Texano posted...

Arrive at a hostage situation? Did we watch the same video? They let him grab a hostage.

I said they should've shot him before

But then there'd be a different type of reeeeee coming from the same people ITT mad that the cops hit the hostage.
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_RETS_ posted...

LordMarshal posted...

apocalyptic_4 posted...

It's pretty easy to look at this video and criticize this when in reality if anyone of us were there this situation wouldn't of ended up any better.

Heat of the moment thing

If only they were trained.

To do what? Explain what you think the course of action should have been.

NOT shoot the hostage.

Its ok. Its not like this is their literal job.
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A_Good_Boy posted...

_RETS_ posted...

LordMarshal posted...

apocalyptic_4 posted...

It's pretty easy to look at this video and criticize this when in reality if anyone of us were there this situation wouldn't of ended up any better.

Heat of the moment thing

If only they were trained.

To do what? Explain what you think the course of action should have been.

Not shoot when the only view you have is of the hostage would be a pretty good place to start. I don't see why the only cop with a view shouldn't be the only one to pull the trigger. What were the other cops even trying to do? Curve their bullets?

Okay, so we agree that shooting was the right call and that all these "should have backed off and gotten a negotiator, should have tried to reason with him, should have rushed him" points are bull shit.

LordMarshal posted...

_RETS_ posted...

LordMarshal posted...

apocalyptic_4 posted...

It's pretty easy to look at this video and criticize this when in reality if anyone of us were there this situation wouldn't of ended up any better.

Heat of the moment thing

If only they were trained.

To do what? Explain what you think the course of action should have been.

NOT shoot the hostage.

Its ok. Its not like this is their literal job.

That wasn't anyone's plan to shoot the hostage. The only immediately clear option was to shoot, she was unfortunately hit. Maybe the other cops shouldn't have fired, but shots needed to be fired.

davyheinz posted...

Cops need training,

LordMarshal posted...

If only they were trained.

TheVipaGTS posted...

but they are supposed to be trained

2 incidents of bystanders getting shot in 13 years. They are fucking trained.

"Yeah well that's not 100%"

Yeah and you're petulant children.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

"Why didn't they shoot the knife out of his hand while doing a back flip off the wall?"

They had plenty of time to down him, instead of just letting them, society wants to give suspects forty trillion warnings and allowing the threat to drag on.

This is what you get when an alt-right pro police robot malfunctions.
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_RETS_ posted...

A_Good_Boy posted...

_RETS_ posted...

LordMarshal posted...

apocalyptic_4 posted...

It's pretty easy to look at this video and criticize this when in reality if anyone of us were there this situation wouldn't of ended up any better.

Heat of the moment thing

If only they were trained.

To do what? Explain what you think the course of action should have been.

Not shoot when the only view you have is of the hostage would be a pretty good place to start. I don't see why the only cop with a view shouldn't be the only one to pull the trigger. What were the other cops even trying to do? Curve their bullets?

Okay, so we agree that shooting was the right call and that all these "should have backed off and gotten a negotiator, should have tried to reason with him, should have rushed him" points are bull shit.

I think you're putting words in my mouth. The camera is absolutely not clear in what was happening when the dude held the knife up to his throat cause it was shaking even worse than a b-movie. The only thing that was clear was that he held it to her throat. I don't see where anyone is seeing the dude actually draw it across her throat. Unless anyone can post that part of the video slowed down, or any other statements saying that she was indeed actively having her throat slit at that exact moment, I don't see why there wasn't any room to back off and call for a negotiator.

And even if she was actively having her throat slit, I don't understand why it was necessary for all but one of those cops to even pull the trigger anyways. The one with the cam was pretty much the only officer with a clear shot. The other cop that was there could see pretty much nothing but the hostage. I can understand why the cop with a clear view shot, but why did the other one? What was his objective, to kill the hostage himself and deprive the man with the knife the pleasure of doing it himself?
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A_Good_Boy posted...

I don't understand why it was necessary for all but one of those cops to even pull the trigger anyways.

Police aren't a psychically connected hive mind and when a murder is happening they shoot to stop it.
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A_Good_Boy posted...

_RETS_ posted...

A_Good_Boy posted...

_RETS_ posted...

LordMarshal posted...

apocalyptic_4 posted...

It's pretty easy to look at this video and criticize this when in reality if anyone of us were there this situation wouldn't of ended up any better.

Heat of the moment thing

If only they were trained.

To do what? Explain what you think the course of action should have been.

Not shoot when the only view you have is of the hostage would be a pretty good place to start. I don't see why the only cop with a view shouldn't be the only one to pull the trigger. What were the other cops even trying to do? Curve their bullets?

Okay, so we agree that shooting was the right call and that all these "should have backed off and gotten a negotiator, should have tried to reason with him, should have rushed him" points are bull shit.

I think you're putting words in my mouth. The camera is absolutely not clear in what was happening when the dude held the knife up to his throat cause it was shaking even worse than a b-movie. The only thing that was clear was that he held it to her throat. I don't see where anyone is seeing the dude actually draw it across her throat. Unless anyone can post that part of the video slowed down, or any other statements saying that she was indeed actively having her throat slit at that exact moment, I don't see why there wasn't any room to back off and call for a negotiator.

And even if she was actively having her throat slit, I don't understand why it was necessary for all but one of those cops to even pull the trigger anyways. The one with the cam was pretty much the only officer with a clear shot. The other cop that was there could see pretty much nothing but the hostage. I can understand why the cop with a clear view shot, but why did the other one? What was his objective, to kill the hostage himself and deprive the man with the knife the pleasure of doing it himself?

I wasn't suggesting you said what I put in quotes, sorry if it seemed that way. Others ITT have.

A_Good_Boy posted...

_RETS_ posted...

A_Good_Boy posted...

_RETS_ posted...

LordMarshal posted...

apocalyptic_4 posted...

It's pretty easy to look at this video and criticize this when in reality if anyone of us were there this situation wouldn't of ended up any better.

Heat of the moment thing

If only they were trained.

To do what? Explain what you think the course of action should have been.

Not shoot when the only view you have is of the hostage would be a pretty good place to start. I don't see why the only cop with a view shouldn't be the only one to pull the trigger. What were the other cops even trying to do? Curve their bullets?

Okay, so we agree that shooting was the right call and that all these "should have backed off and gotten a negotiator, should have tried to reason with him, should have rushed him" points are bull shit.

I think you're putting words in my mouth. The camera is absolutely not clear in what was happening when the dude held the knife up to his throat cause it was shaking even worse than a b-movie. The only thing that was clear was that he held it to her throat. I don't see where anyone is seeing the dude actually draw it across her throat. Unless anyone can post that part of the video slowed down, or any other statements saying that she was indeed actively having her throat slit at that exact moment, I don't see why there wasn't any room to back off and call for a negotiator.

And even if she was actively having her throat slit, I don't understand why it was necessary for all but one of those cops to even pull the trigger anyways. The one with the cam was pretty much the only officer with a clear shot. The other cop that was there could see pretty much nothing but the hostage. I can understand why the cop with a clear view shot, but why did the other one? What was his objective, to kill the hostage himself and deprive the man with the knife the pleasure of doing it himself?

The thing is in a tense situation you almost never just shoot once to disable someone. Once one cop shoots it's a chain reaction and everyone empties their clip.

Honestly I dont think any cop is really trained to handle situations like this its human nature.
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

A_Good_Boy posted...

I don't understand why it was necessary for all but one of those cops to even pull the trigger anyways.

Police aren't a psychically connected hive mind and when a murder is happening they shoot to stop it.

Sounds like they need to spend more time playing Time Crisis.
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Strange how there seems to be more outrage at the officer than at the criminal
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Dat_Cracka_Jax posted...

Strange how there seems to be more outrage at the officer than at the criminal

You notice how there's nobody expressing outrage that the criminal was shot, don't you?
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Shooting a handgun accurately isn't easy. Especially under that kind of pressure.
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PoopPotato posted...

Shooting a handgun accurately isn't easy. Especially under that kind of pressure.

Why did they have to shoot 100 times then?
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_RETS_ posted...

LordMarshal posted...

_RETS_ posted...

LordMarshal posted...

apocalyptic_4 posted...

It's pretty easy to look at this video and criticize this when in reality if anyone of us were there this situation wouldn't of ended up any better.

Heat of the moment thing

If only they were trained.

To do what? Explain what you think the course of action should have been.

NOT shoot the hostage.

Its ok. Its not like this is their literal job.

That wasn't anyone's plan to shoot the hostage. The only immediately clear option was to shoot, she was unfortunately hit. Maybe the other cops shouldn't have fired, but shots needed to be fired.

Yeah, if it was a fucking sniper. They said fuck it, shoot em both and call it a day.
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Reeee why can't cops just disarm the suspect 100% perfectly reeeee
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frozenshock posted...

PoopPotato posted...

Shooting a handgun accurately isn't easy. Especially under that kind of pressure.

Why did they have to shoot 100 times then?

This. Its the reason why our police force is so lethal. They send out a wall of bullets every fucking time and its dangerous as hell for any innocent bystander in the area.
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Was her throat really slit? The video is blurry. An autopsy should clarify. Either way the cops should've have waited until she was dead

SK8T3R215 posted...

Reeee why can't cops just disarm the suspect 100% perfectly reeeee

You people need to grow the fuck up.
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LordMarshal posted...

_RETS_ posted...

LordMarshal posted...

_RETS_ posted...

LordMarshal posted...

apocalyptic_4 posted...

It's pretty easy to look at this video and criticize this when in reality if anyone of us were there this situation wouldn't of ended up any better.

Heat of the moment thing

If only they were trained.

To do what? Explain what you think the course of action should have been.

NOT shoot the hostage.

Its ok. Its not like this is their literal job.

That wasn't anyone's plan to shoot the hostage. The only immediately clear option was to shoot, she was unfortunately hit. Maybe the other cops shouldn't have fired, but shots needed to be fired.

Yeah, if it was a fucking sniper. They said fuck it, shoot em both and call it a day.

At least one officer had to shoot. What other option was there?

The cops i see in the news always empty their guns as fast as possible. Isnt that bad for accuracy? And if they have to spam their shots, why couldnt they do it to his legs when he was no where near the hostage?
And since he was only holding a knife, why couldnt they just taser him? Most people drop when they are tasered right?
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Anarchy_Juiblex posted...

davyheinz posted...

Cops need training,

LordMarshal posted...

If only they were trained.

TheVipaGTS posted...

but they are supposed to be trained

2 incidents of bystanders getting shot in 13 years. They are fucking trained.

"Yeah well that's not 100%"

Yeah and you're petulant children.

Im right and youre wrong.
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