Current Events > Replaying GTA:SA. CJ is actually a busta

(+) Yeah! (+)

I never realized it when I was younger, but cj is totally a busta. Guy has no heart or convictions, and just bails on things when they get complicated. He skipped on his family when his brother died and then tries to skip again after Sweet gets arrested and he gets away from the gangbanger lifestyle. Sweet calls him out at the end when he tries again to bail on his family and his home, convincing him to stick around.

It makes CJ an interesting protagonist, but its hard sometimes to play a character whos so easily manipulated and just plays at stuff while its convenient for him.
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Imagine agreeing with Sweet at the end of SA lol
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What I dont get is why Sweet kept Ryder in the gang. He seemed so anti-drugs and it is no secret that Ryder is high most of the time.
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YourDrunkFather posted...

Imagine agreeing with Sweet at the end of SA lol

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Foppe posted...

What I dont get is why Sweet kept Ryder in the gang. He seemed so anti-drugs and it is no secret that Ryder is high most of the time.

Cuz Ryda is a mufuckin' geniuz.
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Foppe posted...

What I dont get is why Sweet kept Ryder in the gang. He seemed so anti-drugs and it is no secret that Ryder is high most of the time.

Childhood friends. Wasn't just one of his soldiers.
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Me too, and I've realized the same thing. He's still a likeable character, but he whines and cries a lot and sounds like a straight busta. When he finds out Mike Toreno is still alive he just starts crying and begging for his life. Not all protagonists need to be stoic badasses, but he sounds so pathetic at times.

Foppe posted...

What I dont get is why Sweet kept Ryder in the gang. He seemed so anti-drugs and it is no secret that Ryder is high most of the time.

That whole anti drugs point is so dumb in SA.

Drugs = bad/destroying the neighborhood

Drive bys, extorting businesses for protection money, robbery, various murders, and all other gang activity = ok
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Good topic. I might have to replay this game again because I honestly forgot how wonderful a story it has.
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Southernfatman posted...

Me too, and I've realized the same thing. He's still a likeable character, but he whines and cries a lot and sounds like a straight busta. When he finds out Mike Toreno is still alive he just starts crying and begging for his life. Not all protagonists need to be stoic badasses, but he sounds so pathetic at times.

Foppe posted...

What I dont get is why Sweet kept Ryder in the gang. He seemed so anti-drugs and it is no secret that Ryder is high most of the time.

That whole anti drugs point is so dumb in SA.

Drugs = bad/destroying the neighborhood

Drive bys, extorting businesses for protection money, robbery, various murders, and all other gang activity = ok

Drugs destroy entire family units and prevent recovery in a way that only murder can do, and it is far more prevalent than murder if you aren't a gang member. Being against it is wise, as atleast with the other stuff, you can live and recover, not so much if you're mother is a coke fiend and damaged your body.

Southernfatman posted...

Me too, and I've realized the same thing. He's still a likeable character, but he whines and cries a lot and sounds like a straight busta. When he finds out Mike Toreno is still alive he just starts crying and begging for his life. Not all protagonists need to be stoic badasses, but he sounds so pathetic at times.

I like that though. CJ's more realistic and relatable since I'd probably be crying like a bitch to Toreno (and Catalina, especially Catalina).
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Southernfatman posted...

Drive bys, extorting businesses for protection money, robbery, various murders, and all other gang activity = ok

That's how old school Mafia types think too. I remember it being a point of contention in The Godfather.
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Southernfatman posted...

Drive bys, extorting businesses for protection money, robbery, various murders, and all other gang activity = ok

Mobsters, especially in the old days, felt that drugs like heroin and cocaine was bad for business. It wasn't even about what was right or what was wrong as much as its just bad for business.

I love the early 90s gen x vibes that game gives at times. Id love another open world game set in that time period.
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Kastrada posted...

Southernfatman posted...

Drive bys, extorting businesses for protection money, robbery, various murders, and all other gang activity = ok

That's how old school Mafia types think too. I remember it being a point of contention in The Godfather.

Ooh, we both came in with the same point! Nice.

it was also a point during Goodfellas when Henry promised he would stop selling drugs.

Teddytalks posted...

Drugs destroy entire family units and prevent recovery in a way that only murder can do, and it is far more prevalent than murder if you aren't a gang member. Being against it is wise, as atleast with the other stuff, you can live and recover, not so much if you're mother is a coke fiend and damaged your body.

I kinda see your point, but I'd rather live in a neighborhood full of druggies than gang members shooting everything up all the time. I'd rather worry about some crack head breaking in and stealing my blender than walking out my door and getting caught in a drive by.

Kastrada posted...

That's how old school Mafia types think too. I remember it being a point of contention in The Godfather.

dameon_reaper posted...

Mobsters, especially in the old days, felt that drugs like heroin and cocaine was bad for business. It wasn't even about what was right or what was wrong as much as its just bad for business.

I get what you guys are saying, but most of those types of mobsters sold drugs anyway. They just didn't want anyone else cutting in on their action or lower members selling and getting caught and flipping. Carlo Gambino had a "deal and die" rule in his family, but he was big into the drug trade.

I'm just saying, while I get it, their hypocrisy is still stupid.
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Fun fact, in the first chapter of the game, Ryder actually had you do missions to help out the gang. He was loyal up until you got betrayed by big smoke. Big smoke's missions though? They didn't have you help out the gang at all. They are either helping him or killing drug dealers who would have been hurting the crew working under big smoke or CRASH. And remember the drive thru mission? Big smoke never fires at the ballas. He's busy eating at first then says he got cheese or something all over his gun and it needs to get cleaned, then that it's jammed from the mess and won't fire. That's right, big smoke was betraying the gang long before you showed up. And remember the beginning of the game? Cj's mom was killed in a drive by meant to kill sweet. When cj returned home and big smoke tried to kill you then said you were breaking in? He probably thought you were sweet and he was trying to finish the job. It's also why he distrusts you so much and says you should just go back to liberty city. Because he knows you'll get in the way.
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What about rolling over and being Catalina's bitch, Claude handled that situation much differently.
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Southernfatman posted...

I get what you guys are saying, but most of those types of mobsters sold drugs anyway. They just didn't want anyone else cutting in on their action or lower members selling and getting caught and flipping. Carlo Gambino had a "deal and die" rule in his family, but he was big into the drug trade.

I'm just saying, while I get it, their hypocrisy is still stupid.

Sorta, in the old days, selling that kind of drugs weren't part of their racket. They were trying to stay out of that kind of business. To them, it wasn't that drugs were bad, there was a lot of downsides to them. Gangsters are businessmen and approach everything like that rather than personal(although I'm not saying there's no form of hypocrisy here, I'm just stating why they probably felt that way)

dameon_reaper posted...

Sorta, in the old days, selling that kind of drugs weren't part of their racket. They were trying to stay out of that kind of business. To them, it wasn't that drugs were bad, there was a lot of downsides to them. Gangsters are businessmen and approach everything like that rather than personal(although I'm not saying there's no form of hypocrisy here, I'm just stating why they probably felt that way)

Yeah, more so the real old timers. The "mustache petes" were that way. They didn't last long once the new generation of mobsters starting getting power and killed them off. That's way early in the history though. Lucky Luciano was dealing heroin in the 20's and got caught too.

I'll admit I'm generalizing a bit and going off of memory from a book I read a few months ago. Five Families by Selwyn Raab. Great book if you're into mob history. It always interested me.

Anyway, as for SA and now that I think about it, it is kind of a fun twist since in the last game you were a unrepentant psycho drug dealer.
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dameon_reaper posted...

Southernfatman posted...

I get what you guys are saying, but most of those types of mobsters sold drugs anyway. They just didn't want anyone else cutting in on their action or lower members selling and getting caught and flipping. Carlo Gambino had a "deal and die" rule in his family, but he was big into the drug trade.

I'm just saying, while I get it, their hypocrisy is still stupid.

Sorta, in the old days, selling that kind of drugs weren't part of their racket. They were trying to stay out of that kind of business. To them, it wasn't that drugs were bad, there was a lot of downsides to them. Gangsters are businessmen and approach everything like that rather than personal(although I'm not saying there's no form of hypocrisy here, I'm just stating why they probably felt that way)

Yeah this.

Think of it this way. In your post you said "extorting businesses for protection money, robbery" = okay for the mafia/gangs. True. Now if you introduce narcotics into those neighborhoods, the standard of living is most likely going to depreciate. Less money to take advantage of. More random crime (look at the opioid epidemic and crime rates) outside of their purview.

They aren't against drugs for the fact that "Drugs are bad m'kay" but how it diminishes their opportunities and life. Keep in mind that the mafia/gangs we are talking about have their own connections to their areas. There is a sense of family/national/cultural pride going along with it.

It's why Vito had to be talked into the narcotics game and even then, only if they distributed it to black/minority neighborhoods and not Italian.

If you want drug hypocrisy in GTA games, look no further than Vice City Stories. The end of the game, the Vance brothers agree to never get involved in the drug business again but you can still run drug houses post game. >_>
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The mob still had their hand in drugs though. If they didn't sell drugs themselves they extorted unaffiliated dealers around their territory. They just protected their neighborhoods better and people knew if any heat came down they'd be dealt with. Certain guys still had leeway to sell in mob controlled neighborhoods. I'm not sure it's fair to use a fictional character as a reference though and I love the Godfather too. :) You got to admit the Godfather is romanticized heavily.

Kastrada posted...

If you want drug hypocrisy in GTA games, look no further than Vice City Stories. The end of the game, the Vance brothers agree to never get involved in the drug business again but you can still run drug houses post game. >_>

Oh yeah, definitely. I gotta wonder what they were thinking with that. Hell, Victor seems like a fuddy duddy with a stick up his butt most of the time (a lot of times rightfully so) and I didn't like him much. I wish we had the Victor from the Vice City intro. He seemed like a cool, laid back guy. Maybe if Victor started how he was and eventually loosened up it could have worked.
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EnragedSlith posted...

I never realized it when I was younger, but cj is totally a busta. Guy has no heart or convictions, and just bails on things when they get complicated. He skipped on his family when his brother died and then tries to skip again after Sweet gets arrested and he gets away from the gangbanger lifestyle. Sweet calls him out at the end when he tries again to bail on his family and his home, convincing him to stick around.

It makes CJ an interesting protagonist, but its hard sometimes to play a character whos so easily manipulated and just plays at stuff while its convenient for him.

Cj didnt skip anything after sweet was arrested, tenpenny had him by the balls and he couldnt go back to ls

After succesfully getting sweet out of prison, its obv why carl doesnt want whats left of his fam to possibly end up like his mom/brother

Southernfatman posted...

Me too, and I've realized the same thing. He's still a likeable character, but he whines and cries a lot and sounds like a straight busta. When he finds out Mike Toreno is still alive he just starts crying and begging for his life. Not all protagonists need to be stoic badasses, but he sounds so pathetic at times.

Foppe posted...

What I dont get is why Sweet kept Ryder in the gang. He seemed so anti-drugs and it is no secret that Ryder is high most of the time.

That whole anti drugs point is so dumb in SA.

Drugs = bad/destroying the neighborhood

Drive bys, extorting businesses for protection money, robbery, various murders, and all other gang activity = ok

Thats bc someones cow of a mother would cry, this game promotes drug use

But i agree, its hilarious how society views violence and crime considering the contents of 90% of the tv, music, etc people consume on the reg
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Kastrada posted...

dameon_reaper posted...

Southernfatman posted...

I get what you guys are saying, but most of those types of mobsters sold drugs anyway. They just didn't want anyone else cutting in on their action or lower members selling and getting caught and flipping. Carlo Gambino had a "deal and die" rule in his family, but he was big into the drug trade.

I'm just saying, while I get it, their hypocrisy is still stupid.

Sorta, in the old days, selling that kind of drugs weren't part of their racket. They were trying to stay out of that kind of business. To them, it wasn't that drugs were bad, there was a lot of downsides to them. Gangsters are businessmen and approach everything like that rather than personal(although I'm not saying there's no form of hypocrisy here, I'm just stating why they probably felt that way)

Yeah this.

Think of it this way. In your post you said "extorting businesses for protection money, robbery" = okay for the mafia/gangs. True. Now if you introduce narcotics into those neighborhoods, the standard of living is most likely going to depreciate. Less money to take advantage of. More random crime (look at the opioid epidemic and crime rates) outside of their purview.

They aren't against drugs for the fact that "Drugs are bad m'kay" but how it diminishes their opportunities and life. Keep in mind that the mafia/gangs we are talking about have their own connections to their areas. There is a sense of family/national/cultural pride going along with it.

It's why Vito had to be talked into the narcotics game and even then, only if they distributed it to black/minority neighborhoods and not Italian.

If you want drug hypocrisy in GTA games, look no further than Vice City Stories. The end of the game, the Vance brothers agree to never get involved in the drug business again but you can still run drug houses post game. >_>

The real Irony there is a drug deal gets Vic clipped and starts Lance's downfall. But their whole story is Vic wanting out and Lance wanting more. They pushed their luck too far.
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