Current Events > How does Trunks going back in time change what happens in dbz? Spoilers

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xyphilia
07/12/18 7:56:46 AM
#1:


Why didn't events occur like they did in his timeline? How does him going back in time change the situation of the androids? And did cell exist in his timeline as well?
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pikachupwnage
07/12/18 8:00:07 AM
#2:


1. Basically his time travel caused ripples in time that changed some things
2. It doesnt...not for his timeline. Until he goes back and is so much stronger due to his training and fights in the past that he wrecks the androids
3. Yes
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visualboy2003
07/12/18 8:03:33 AM
#3:


one of the main mistake in the anime is that - ssj kid trunk knocked buu so far down deep some few mountains.

when ssj vegeta's attack didn't even move ssj2 perfect cell a bit when cell wasn't even aware of his attack cause of his blast duel with gohan.
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Foppe
07/12/18 8:03:48 AM
#4:


Do we really know that it changed the Androids?
All he knew was information that he had heard from Bulma, which was that two Androids appeared and started to kill everything. It can fully well have been Android 19 and Gero that started the attack to draw out the Z fighters and have 17 & 18 kill them in a trap, and then have 17 & 18 kill 19 and Gero.
As for them being stronger... plot device?

And yes, Cell as we know actually comes from Trunks timeline. He saw that 17 & 18 were gone so he couldnt reach his full potential, so he killed Trunks and stole his timemachine and went back in time before Trunks went back to the future and got killed.
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snesmaster40
07/12/18 8:08:57 AM
#5:


I believe time travel in Dragon Ball Z is similar to the time travel in Back to the Future. Different world lines exist.
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Awesome
07/12/18 8:40:57 AM
#6:


there are 4 timelines in total, its confusing
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xyphilia
07/12/18 3:23:58 PM
#7:


4 timelines?
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Foppe
07/12/18 3:50:37 PM
#8:


At least.
The original one is when Goku dies of a heart disease, the Androids appears without warning and fuck things up, the Future Trunks timeline.
The second one, which we follow, have Trunks come back in time and change the timeline.
The third one is a Future Trunks timeline where Trunks returns to the future and kills the Androids. Cell wakes up, discovers that the Androids are gone, kills Trunks and goes back in time.
Fourth one is when Future Trunks are back in time when Cell appears, Cell gets defeated, Trunks goes back into the future and is ready when Cell tries to kill him, and kills Cell before Cell can go back in time and change the past.
...a fifth timeline must be where Future Trunks goes back in time, saves Goku, they are prepared for the Androids and Cell never appears?
And I think Super messed up some alternative dimensional timelines as well...
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nemu
07/12/18 3:52:22 PM
#9:


Nothing is ever stated, but it can be assumed him defeating Frieza instead of Goku made Gero react differently compared to in his world.
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ThePrinceFish
07/12/18 3:57:10 PM
#10:


Foppe posted...
At least.
The original one is when Goku dies of a heart disease, the Androids appears without warning and fuck things up, the Future Trunks timeline.
The second one, which we follow, have Trunks come back in time and change the timeline.
The third one is a Future Trunks timeline where Trunks returns to the future and kills the Androids. Cell wakes up, discovers that the Androids are gone, kills Trunks and goes back in time.
Fourth one is when Future Trunks are back in time when Cell appears, Cell gets defeated, Trunks goes back into the future and is ready when Cell tries to kill him, and kills Cell before Cell can go back in time and change the past.
...a fifth timeline must be where Future Trunks goes back in time, saves Goku, they are prepared for the Androids and Cell never appears?
And I think Super messed up some alternative dimensional timelines as well...

Super actually visually personifies the four timelines that you mentioned with four green time rings.
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Awesome
07/12/18 3:57:49 PM
#11:


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Tyranthraxus
07/12/18 3:59:32 PM
#12:


Foppe posted...
The third one is a Future Trunks timeline where Trunks returns to the future and kills the Androids. Cell wakes up, discovers that the Androids are gone, kills Trunks and goes back in time.

How the fuck could Cell possibly kill Trunks without Androids to eat?
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nemu
07/12/18 4:00:52 PM
#13:


Tyranthraxus posted...
Foppe posted...
The third one is a Future Trunks timeline where Trunks returns to the future and kills the Androids. Cell wakes up, discovers that the Androids are gone, kills Trunks and goes back in time.

How the fuck could Cell possibly kill Trunks without Androids to eat?

He never trained to beat perfect cell because they had the remotes to disable them in that timeline, and Cell got a sneak attack in.
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ThePrinceFish
07/12/18 4:01:57 PM
#14:


Tyranthraxus posted...
Foppe posted...
The third one is a Future Trunks timeline where Trunks returns to the future and kills the Androids. Cell wakes up, discovers that the Androids are gone, kills Trunks and goes back in time.

How the fuck could Cell possibly kill Trunks without Androids to eat?

Trunks defeated the Androids using their fail-safe remote so he wasn't very strong in that timeline.

First form Cell was stronger than the individual Androids once he absorbed a great deal of humans, so presumably he was still able to consume enough to overpower Trunks even though the Androids wiped out a good deal of humanity in that time.
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Tyranthraxus
07/12/18 4:02:40 PM
#15:


nemu posted...
Tyranthraxus posted...
Foppe posted...
The third one is a Future Trunks timeline where Trunks returns to the future and kills the Androids. Cell wakes up, discovers that the Androids are gone, kills Trunks and goes back in time.

How the fuck could Cell possibly kill Trunks without Androids to eat?

He never trained to beat perfect cell because they had the remotes to disable them in that timeline, and Cell got a sneak attack in.

Yeah but how did Cell become perfect? He ate the disabled Androids?
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hollow_shrine
07/12/18 4:03:20 PM
#16:


Tyranthraxus posted...
Foppe posted...
The third one is a Future Trunks timeline where Trunks returns to the future and kills the Androids. Cell wakes up, discovers that the Androids are gone, kills Trunks and goes back in time.

How the fuck could Cell possibly kill Trunks without Androids to eat?

He ambushes Trunks as he's preparing to use his time machine again, kills him, and uses his time machine to create the events of the main timeline by burrowing into the earth, and hiding while the Z fighters fight the androids, and use the detonator to destroy the cell of their timeline.

The Perfect Cell is actually a time divergent cell from a previous timeline who hides in the present because there are no androids for him to consume in his home timeline.

You know what this all reminds me of? Lavos in Chrono Trigger.
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ThePrinceFish
07/12/18 4:03:34 PM
#17:


Tyranthraxus posted...
nemu posted...
Tyranthraxus posted...
Foppe posted...
The third one is a Future Trunks timeline where Trunks returns to the future and kills the Androids. Cell wakes up, discovers that the Androids are gone, kills Trunks and goes back in time.

How the fuck could Cell possibly kill Trunks without Androids to eat?

He never trained to beat perfect cell because they had the remotes to disable them in that timeline, and Cell got a sneak attack in.

Yeah but how did Cell become perfect? He ate the disabled Androids?

He wasn't perfect. He killed Trunks to take his time machine to return to a time where Androids were still functional so he could absorb them.
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Foppe
07/12/18 4:03:42 PM
#18:


Tyranthraxus posted...
nemu posted...
Tyranthraxus posted...
Foppe posted...
The third one is a Future Trunks timeline where Trunks returns to the future and kills the Androids. Cell wakes up, discovers that the Androids are gone, kills Trunks and goes back in time.

How the fuck could Cell possibly kill Trunks without Androids to eat?

He never trained to beat perfect cell because they had the remotes to disable them in that timeline, and Cell got a sneak attack in.

Yeah but how did Cell become perfect? He ate the disabled Androids?

Cell was never perfect in the future, that was his reason to go back in time.
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Kafkaf
07/12/18 4:04:09 PM
#19:


It's not time travel, it's dimensional travel
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hollow_shrine
07/12/18 4:05:37 PM
#20:


Kafkaf posted...
It's not time travel, it's dimensional travel

Technically yes, every instance of time travel to the past in the DBZ universe creates new worlds running parallel to the old ones.
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Tyranthraxus
07/12/18 4:05:39 PM
#21:


Foppe posted...
Tyranthraxus posted...
nemu posted...
Tyranthraxus posted...
Foppe posted...
The third one is a Future Trunks timeline where Trunks returns to the future and kills the Androids. Cell wakes up, discovers that the Androids are gone, kills Trunks and goes back in time.

How the fuck could Cell possibly kill Trunks without Androids to eat?

He never trained to beat perfect cell because they had the remotes to disable them in that timeline, and Cell got a sneak attack in.

Yeah but how did Cell become perfect? He ate the disabled Androids?

Cell was never perfect in the future, that was his reason to go back in time.

Okay so basically Cell got in a cheap shot on Trunks. Cause normal SSJ trunks should have been enough to kill Cell all on his own.
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hollow_shrine
07/12/18 4:09:28 PM
#22:


Tyranthraxus posted...
Okay so basically Cell got in a cheap shot on Trunks. Cause normal SSJ trunks should have been enough to kill Cell all on his own.

Not necessarily.

ThePrinceFish posted...
Trunks defeated the Androids using their fail-safe remote so he wasn't very strong in that timeline.

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ThePrinceFish
07/12/18 4:12:11 PM
#23:


Tyranthraxus posted...
Okay so basically Cell got in a cheap shot on Trunks. Cause normal SSJ trunks should have been enough to kill Cell all on his own.

In the anime (I don't think the scene is shown in the manga, just alluded to), Trunks attacks Cell with his sword without turning Super Saiyan and is strangled to death.
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Foppe
07/12/18 4:13:30 PM
#24:


Tyranthraxus posted...
Foppe posted...
Tyranthraxus posted...
nemu posted...
Tyranthraxus posted...
Foppe posted...
The third one is a Future Trunks timeline where Trunks returns to the future and kills the Androids. Cell wakes up, discovers that the Androids are gone, kills Trunks and goes back in time.

How the fuck could Cell possibly kill Trunks without Androids to eat?

He never trained to beat perfect cell because they had the remotes to disable them in that timeline, and Cell got a sneak attack in.

Yeah but how did Cell become perfect? He ate the disabled Androids?

Cell was never perfect in the future, that was his reason to go back in time.

Okay so basically Cell got in a cheap shot on Trunks. Cause normal SSJ trunks should have been enough to kill Cell all on his own.

We dont know how much stronger future imperfect Cell originally was, he lost tons of power when he returned to his larvae form (or was it an egg? cant remember) so he could fit in the timemachine in the first place.
That said, yes, he most likely got in a sneak attack on Trunks.
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LightHawKnight
07/12/18 4:14:07 PM
#25:


Need to find that TFS episode with the Multiverse Theory.
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hollow_shrine
07/12/18 4:15:07 PM
#26:


What is kind of cute about that plotline in the revelation that the events of the main timeline, are themselves the result of at least two other failed timelines, and that Trunks isn't the thing that created the main timeline, but time travelling Cell.
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Foppe
07/12/18 4:17:44 PM
#27:


Thinking about it...
...shouldnt it exist a timeline where the timemachine was not invented?
Future Trunks messed up future with undefeated Androids and a Cell waking up
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ThePrinceFish
07/12/18 4:19:08 PM
#28:


Tyranthraxus posted...
Foppe posted...
Tyranthraxus posted...
nemu posted...
Tyranthraxus posted...
Foppe posted...
The third one is a Future Trunks timeline where Trunks returns to the future and kills the Androids. Cell wakes up, discovers that the Androids are gone, kills Trunks and goes back in time.

How the fuck could Cell possibly kill Trunks without Androids to eat?

He never trained to beat perfect cell because they had the remotes to disable them in that timeline, and Cell got a sneak attack in.

Yeah but how did Cell become perfect? He ate the disabled Androids?

Cell was never perfect in the future, that was his reason to go back in time.

Okay so basically Cell got in a cheap shot on Trunks. Cause normal SSJ trunks should have been enough to kill Cell all on his own.

It's also worth mentioning that once the main Future Trunks returns to his timeline and effortlessly annihilates both Androids, Cell appears in the same way that he did in the timeline where he killed Trunks. However Trunks is aware that he is going to try to get the drop on him and Trunks kicks the shit out him in one of the most satisfying beatdowns of DBZ.
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ThePrinceFish
07/12/18 4:20:14 PM
#29:


Foppe posted...
Thinking about it...
...shouldnt it exist a timeline where the timemachine was not invented?
Future Trunks messed up future with undefeated Androids and a Cell waking up

That's not the way it works. There's not an infinite number of possibilities running concurrent to each other. Bulma fractured the timelines in the first place by inventing the time machine in the original timeline.
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Foppe
07/12/18 4:21:32 PM
#30:


ThePrinceFish posted...
Foppe posted...
Thinking about it...
...shouldnt it exist a timeline where the timemachine was not invented?
Future Trunks messed up future with undefeated Androids and a Cell waking up

That's not the way it works. There's not an infinite number of possibilities running concurrent to each other. Bulma fractured the timelines in the first place by inventing the time machine in the original timeline.

But the original intended timeline before Bulma managed to split it...
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hollow_shrine
07/12/18 4:23:11 PM
#31:


ThePrinceFish posted...
Foppe posted...
Thinking about it...
...shouldnt it exist a timeline where the timemachine was not invented?
Future Trunks messed up future with undefeated Androids and a Cell waking up

That's not the way it works. There's not an infinite number of possibilities running concurrent to each other. Bulma fractured the timelines in the first place by inventing the time machine in the original timeline.

Bulma, the true antagonist of Dragon Ball Z. Does Majin Boo even happen without the Cell games. Like wasn't he a consequence of how much stronger everyone had gotten, because Bibidi realized there was now enough ambient energy in the system to summon Majin Boo? Like, what even happens in a setting where the time machine is never made?
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Touch
07/12/18 4:24:20 PM
#32:


hollow_shrine posted...
ThePrinceFish posted...
Foppe posted...
Thinking about it...
...shouldnt it exist a timeline where the timemachine was not invented?
Future Trunks messed up future with undefeated Androids and a Cell waking up

That's not the way it works. There's not an infinite number of possibilities running concurrent to each other. Bulma fractured the timelines in the first place by inventing the time machine in the original timeline.

Bulma, the true antagonist of Dragon Ball Z. Does Majin Boo even happen without the Cell games. Like wasn't he a consequence of how much stronger everyone had gotten, because Bibidi realized there was now enough ambient energy in the system to summon Majin Boo? Like, what even happens in a setting where the time machine is never made?

A gigantic saiyan orgy
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ThePrinceFish
07/12/18 4:24:52 PM
#33:


Foppe posted...
ThePrinceFish posted...
Foppe posted...
Thinking about it...
...shouldnt it exist a timeline where the timemachine was not invented?
Future Trunks messed up future with undefeated Androids and a Cell waking up

That's not the way it works. There's not an infinite number of possibilities running concurrent to each other. Bulma fractured the timelines in the first place by inventing the time machine in the original timeline.

But the original intended timeline before Bulma managed to split it...

But there is no original timeline where Bulma doesn't invent the time machine. The way things were originally going, she had decided that their only hope was to try to get help from Goku. There is no version where she was unsuccessful because up until she invents the first time machine, there is only one timeline.
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Tyranthraxus
07/12/18 4:25:40 PM
#34:


hollow_shrine posted...
ThePrinceFish posted...
Foppe posted...
Thinking about it...
...shouldnt it exist a timeline where the timemachine was not invented?
Future Trunks messed up future with undefeated Androids and a Cell waking up

That's not the way it works. There's not an infinite number of possibilities running concurrent to each other. Bulma fractured the timelines in the first place by inventing the time machine in the original timeline.

Bulma, the true antagonist of Dragon Ball Z. Does Majin Boo even happen without the Cell games. Like wasn't he a consequence of how much stronger everyone had gotten, because Bibidi realized there was now enough ambient energy in the system to summon Majin Boo? Like, what even happens in a setting where the time machine is never made?


Majin Boo probably still happenes because Majin Vegeta is the main catalyst.
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ThePrinceFish
07/12/18 4:26:38 PM
#35:


Tyranthraxus posted...
hollow_shrine posted...
ThePrinceFish posted...
Foppe posted...
Thinking about it...
...shouldnt it exist a timeline where the timemachine was not invented?
Future Trunks messed up future with undefeated Androids and a Cell waking up

That's not the way it works. There's not an infinite number of possibilities running concurrent to each other. Bulma fractured the timelines in the first place by inventing the time machine in the original timeline.

Bulma, the true antagonist of Dragon Ball Z. Does Majin Boo even happen without the Cell games. Like wasn't he a consequence of how much stronger everyone had gotten, because Bibidi realized there was now enough ambient energy in the system to summon Majin Boo? Like, what even happens in a setting where the time machine is never made?


Majin Boo probably still happenes because Majin Vegeta is the main catalyst.

I mean, in a hypothetical world where Bulma does not ever create the time machine, the Androids probably exterminate all life on Earth.
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AngelsNAirwav3s
07/12/18 4:28:25 PM
#36:


Then there are the timelines that were created in Super... lol

Well I guess we have Goku Black's timeline, and then the Timeline that Trunks and Mai return to, so 2 additional?
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Tyranthraxus
07/12/18 4:29:21 PM
#37:


ThePrinceFish posted...
Tyranthraxus posted...
hollow_shrine posted...
ThePrinceFish posted...
Foppe posted...
Thinking about it...
...shouldnt it exist a timeline where the timemachine was not invented?
Future Trunks messed up future with undefeated Androids and a Cell waking up

That's not the way it works. There's not an infinite number of possibilities running concurrent to each other. Bulma fractured the timelines in the first place by inventing the time machine in the original timeline.

Bulma, the true antagonist of Dragon Ball Z. Does Majin Boo even happen without the Cell games. Like wasn't he a consequence of how much stronger everyone had gotten, because Bibidi realized there was now enough ambient energy in the system to summon Majin Boo? Like, what even happens in a setting where the time machine is never made?


Majin Boo probably still happenes because Majin Vegeta is the main catalyst.

I mean, in a hypothetical world where Bulma does not ever create the time machine, the Androids probably exterminate all life on Earth.

Oh, I just figured everything else happened and we just skipped over the Cell games.

I guess the real question is does Perfect Cell happen without the Time Machine and if -that- happens then Boo would get released based off (Majin) Perfect Cell instead of Vegeta.

Because life doesn't suck enough at that point yet.
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SpiritSephiroth
07/12/18 4:29:52 PM
#38:


Its sad in a way. If Bulma never created the time machine and trunks never time travelled, their universe would still be in existence.

The only reason why billions and billions of souls were lost was due to Trunks in the end. Zamasu and Goku Black started their Zero mortal plan in retaliation to their actions from what I remember.

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ThePrinceFish
07/12/18 4:32:48 PM
#39:


Tyranthraxus posted...
I guess the real question is does Perfect Cell happen without the Time Machine

This is a good question and I believe it could go either way. Cell needed to absorb a LOT of humans in the main timeline before he is deemed to be stronger than Android 17 or 18, and with the Androids rampaging over the planet actively murdering humans, he would have a more difficult time powering up. However he is also a crafty sucker and if he was able to absorb one of them, he would easily be able to absorb the other.

The answer is don't worry about it, I guess.
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hollow_shrine
07/12/18 4:35:17 PM
#40:


Tyranthraxus posted...
I guess the real question is does Perfect Cell happen without the Time Machine and if -that- happens then Boo would get released based off (Majin) Perfect Cell instead of Vegeta.

Without the time machine, Goku dies, and the androids kill everyone. Cell may eventually wake and attempt to consume them, but he'd be weaker than them and they'd probably kill him.
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AngelsNAirwav3s
07/12/18 4:35:42 PM
#41:


SpiritSephiroth posted...
Its sad in a way. If Bulma never created the time machine and trunks never time travelled, their universe would still be in existence.

The only reason why billions and billions of souls were lost was due to Trunks in the end. Zamasu and Goku Black started their Zero mortal plan in retaliation to their actions from what I remember.


I don't think so, Zamasu was always very anti-mortal. I think Goku Black picked Trunks's dimension because Supreme Kai and Beerus were already killed?
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ThePrinceFish
07/12/18 4:39:26 PM
#42:


AngelsNAirwav3s posted...
SpiritSephiroth posted...
Its sad in a way. If Bulma never created the time machine and trunks never time travelled, their universe would still be in existence.

The only reason why billions and billions of souls were lost was due to Trunks in the end. Zamasu and Goku Black started their Zero mortal plan in retaliation to their actions from what I remember.


I don't think so, Zamasu was always very anti-mortal. I think Goku Black picked Trunks's dimension because Supreme Kai and Beerus were already killed?

IIRC, the Zamases blame Trunks for even allowing them to find a timeline where Beerus is already dead because he used the time machine to begin the creation of multiple timelines to begin with. Goku Black, for example, would have never been possible had the timeline never been fractured because Zamasu would have never become obsessed with Goku, who would have remained dead in every reality (there being only one reality)
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xyphilia
07/14/18 6:49:17 AM
#43:


Wait. If dbz isn't doing that whole "stable time loop" thing (whatever that means) then... didn't Frieza and king cold get to earth before goku did? And wouldn't they have wiped out heck of a lot of people if not the planet outright in that short span of time? Hm I wonder...
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ssj-kenobi
07/14/18 6:52:30 AM
#44:


in short:

cos it's anime
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Foppe
07/14/18 8:12:15 AM
#45:


xyphilia posted...
Wait. If dbz isn't doing that whole "stable time loop" thing (whatever that means) then... didn't Frieza and king cold get to earth before goku did? And wouldn't they have wiped out heck of a lot of people if not the planet outright in that short span of time? Hm I wonder...

Where is that Goku clown?
TELL ME WHERE GOKU IS!!!!
*slowly beats the crap out of the Z fighters just because he can*
Alright, that was fun, now tell me where Goku is before I kill you all...
*Goku lands*
Hi guys, sorry Im late.
*kills Frieza and King Cold*
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SpiritSephiroth
07/14/18 12:24:26 PM
#46:


xyphilia posted...
Wait. If dbz isn't doing that whole "stable time loop" thing (whatever that means) then... didn't Frieza and king cold get to earth before goku did? And wouldn't they have wiped out heck of a lot of people if not the planet outright in that short span of time? Hm I wonder...


No Because Goku himself said that if it wasn't for Trunks he would have just instant transmissioned there. He sensed Trunks in his ship before he was even near Earth and wanted to see what he was capable of.
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LordFarquad1312
07/14/18 12:32:44 PM
#47:


Foppe posted...
At least.
The original one is when Goku dies of a heart disease, the Androids appears without warning and fuck things up, the Future Trunks timeline.
The second one, which we follow, have Trunks come back in time and change the timeline.
The third one is a Future Trunks timeline where Trunks returns to the future and kills the Androids. Cell wakes up, discovers that the Androids are gone, kills Trunks and goes back in time.
Fourth one is when Future Trunks are back in time when Cell appears, Cell gets defeated, Trunks goes back into the future and is ready when Cell tries to kill him, and kills Cell before Cell can go back in time and change the past.
...a fifth timeline must be where Future Trunks goes back in time, saves Goku, they are prepared for the Androids and Cell never appears?
And I think Super messed up some alternative dimensional timelines as well...

Goku dies of heart disease and Trunk goes back to the future and kills the androids and Cell are the same.

The fourth timeline is created when Zamasu switches bodies with Goku and kills everyone, then goes to Future Trunks's timeline (or rather, when they learn of this and prevent it from happening).

At least another timeline is created at the end of that ark.
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Kafkaf
07/14/18 6:05:38 PM
#48:


LordFarquad1312 posted...
The fourth timeline is created when Zamasu switches bodies with Goku and kills everyone, then goes to Future Trunks's timeline (or rather, when they learn of this and prevent it from happening).

Zamasu is a 5th timeline. The fourth was another Cell Games(I dont know how). And there's now a sixth timeline Trunks went to with Mai.
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xyphilia
07/16/18 4:23:35 AM
#49:


I'm not sure we should include that GTish reboot/sequel into the continuity should we? Maybe it's best to just use the original show from 30 years ago.
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SpiritSephiroth
07/16/18 4:57:47 AM
#50:


xyphilia posted...
I'm not sure we should include that GTish reboot/sequel into the continuity should we? Maybe it's best to just use the original show from 30 years ago.


Are you talking about Super? Thats Canon.
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