Current Events > WE HAVE A MELTDOWN. SJW GameDev Edition

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Tyranthraxus posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

s0nicfan posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

Tmk posted...

Of course they lie about how Gamergate started now. Not that long ago I was explaining to someone just that and they just boldly said no, none of that is true, there was no coordinated wave of attack articles, no shadowbanning, no attempt to cover anything up or deflect, in their mind Gamergate just spontaneously formed when a bunch of random guys, sitting around were like "Golly, I sure like harassing women" and then other men gasped, "Me too! Let's harass women together" and then all shook hands while nodding and Gamergate was formed.

The only reason I even heard about all that shit was because they tried to suppress it.

Gamergate definitly had tons of toxic guys latch onto it to be shitty to girls. To deny that is just to be in huge denial

Oh there were absolutely leeches that hooked onto the movement when it started, but said leeches were also used to discredit the entire movement by people threatened by the movement's original purpose.

The leeches, however, eventually drove out people who were legitimately concerned and now it's mostly leeches and a few mosquitoes.

That's probably true since the "movement" is years old at this point and most people have moved on. My original reply was addressing the start of Gamergate, though, and the fact that not everyone who used the label was just out to troll people on twitter.

Sure. Just like incel was originally a word originating from a study about FTLs and was later adopted and rebranded by the puahate movement.

People have to accept that some labels are just lost causes and move on. Find a different identity that isn't Mudd and do what you want to do and not what everyone else in your clique is doing.

Yeah, its why I hate these labels as a identifier for yourself. Like if someone asked me Do #BlackLivesMatter or are you a feminist? I would just verbally say my stance on what i support rather than just yes

Gamergate was literally garbage and anyone with sense should have started some variety of new movement as soon as racists and sexists started playing into it. I firmly believe it was created with good intentions, but those good intentions were a blink and you miss it moment and it almost immediately stopped being something good and immediately became, by and large, a movement for idiots who wanted to get upset about ess jay dubyews.

No amount of people writing explanatory diatribes on twitter or bad videos on youtube to the contrary will convince me otherwise, because I browsed KIA as well as 4chan and 8chan at the time and saw that getting upset about women with funny haircolors and transexuals and gays and whatever else almost always dominated discussion. Similarly the people I talked to online that were part of it started drooling entry level right wing talking points and shitting up any board they were a part of about it. I've seen it all, and you can puff up and tell me I was hallucinating or whatever, but during its most visible and vocal phase gamergate was 20% people actually concerned about ethical journalism and 80% people absolutely, cartoonishly horrified about people with different politics than them making things while virulently defending the right of people to make games with politics they agreed with.

At the same time though, they were largely bigots getting upset ineffectually at a bunch of stuff and accomplishing nothing, so seeing actual SJWS use them as as big a boogeyman as gamergate holds SJWS to is pretty hilarious. People stroking themselves to totalbiscuit dying will never not reveal how weird and petty and narrow-minded they are. If they had any sense they would just let it die, as it's basically gone at this point anyway for all intents and purposes. But every time they go "hey remember the group of crazy screaming people from like 3 years ago" it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy where they are mercilessly triggered to death from all sides.
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ultimate reaver posted...

Gamergate was literally garbage and anyone with sense should have started some variety of new movement as soon as racists and sexists started playing into it.

Bad news for people who want to keep calling themselves feminists then.
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Tmk posted...

ultimate reaver posted...

Gamergate was literally garbage and anyone with sense should have started some variety of new movement as soon as racists and sexists started playing into it.

Bad news for people who want to keep calling themselves feminists then.

This is an incredibly poor comparison because reasonable and moderate feminists easily outnumber crazy tumblr people, and the only reason most people don't think it does is because they get their information from sources specifically designed to make people outraged. Feminism is way, way bigger than the nutty stuff which is by and large confined to the internet, and has been around so much longer that it would be hard for them to not have done what Gamergate should have done. You've got liberal feminism, radical feminism, marxist feminism, seperatist feminism, eco-feminism, etc to compartmentalize what people believe and separate it from what you don't

Whereas Gamergate was around for a handful of years in a handful of spaces, and just kept chugging along downhill with the only compartmentalization being if you were willing to debase yourself and continue to be part of that or split off and make your own feelings known.
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Just spent too much time reading up on everything that happened.

It's a little terrifying knowing that people like this exist. How can they go through life like this? Being so incredibly combative and aggressive and viewing everything as a personal sexist attack on them? It seems like such a stressful, depressing way to choose to live life.
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ultimate reaver posted...

This is an incredibly poor comparison because reasonable and moderate feminists easily outnumber crazy tumblr people

I don't believe you.

ultimate reaver posted...

and the only reason most people don't think it does is because they get their information from sources specifically designed to make people outraged.

Well I don't. And it's a good thing I don't, because browsing places like GamerGhazi even for like 10 minutes was really making me understand why so many people just seem constantly pissed off with a bone to pick and a chip on their shoulder because it's very easy to see extremism on either side and how it dehumanises you.

Yet I still run into people even on GameFAQs willing to make pretty bold and hateful accusations entirely uncalled for.

People can only defend that as "vocal minority not all feminists!" so many times until it rings entirely hollow. I've heard many more people defend feminism when these vile people are using feminism to be hateful bigots, than I've heard feminists disgusted and opposed to them. Eventually that is kind of all you hear. It's sort of like bad cop, ineffectual good cop. You have the bad feminism being horribly wrong and abusive, then you have the "good feminist" who is entirely unphased by what the bad feminist is doing but really just wanted to chime in to say "hey, not all feminists" and defend themselves, and the bad feminist too if there's time. Because tribalism.

So, no. It's most feminists. Most feminists are toxic or enabling of that toxicity. Anyone who really cares about equality should be rightfully very pissed off when a so-called feminist is dragging feminism and equality through the mud for their own mental episodes. But you don't see that much, because they'd sooner try to defend feminism.

There needs to be less defensive crap, and more just outright condemning. If when a feminist is being crazy bigoted, the kneejerk response is to try and save face for feminism, then it's clear they don't care about what's right, they just care about themselves and saving face.
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I can't imagine any company hiring this garbage human being. They're just asking for trouble.
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OpenSorceress seems happily willfully ignorant and was jumping at the chance to scoop her up.
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Tmk posted...

ultimate reaver posted...

This is an incredibly poor comparison because reasonable and moderate feminists easily outnumber crazy tumblr people

I don't believe you.

Then I guess I don't really care to discuss it with you. You are operating on preconceived notions gathered from your time looking at radfems on ghazi or gamefaqs to make a judgement call on a movement that is multiple times older than you, consisting of millions of people around the world. That is shortsighted to a rather frightening degree

Comparing the depths of different versions and standpoints of feminism and gamergate is like comparing a puddle to a lake.
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I'm not saying the actions of feminism today retroactively change the actions in the past.

I am specifically talking about modern, first-world feminism.

It's the new hotness. And it's terrible. It basically comes across as something middle/upper class white women use to pretend like they're shoulder to shoulder with the most downtrodden of humanity on the planet.

And you know, I'm super against trying to play Hardship Olympics games: problems are problems, it doesn't matter if something is small or big, if it's wrong, it's wrong. Unfortunately, don't seem to be many feminists who believe that. Even entertain the idea of issues men may face and it's like haha big deal, pfft, if they even acknowledge such things exist then it's out with the strategy of well, women have it worse, so, back of the line, no one cares, us first. And when some white woman in a first world country is talking about the plights of being condescended to sometimes in the tech industry, these demands for "you must be THIS oppressed to speak up" gatekeeper come across as unbelievably disingenuous and just used to silence anything that could steal power and attention away from them.

Do you honestly think the average person on the internet who complains about feminism or "those pesky es jay double u's!" has feminism in the middle east or something in mind? No. Who's complaining about that. But that doesn't give legitimacy to a charlatan like Zoe Quinn or an insufferable combative insecure asshole like Price.
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ultimate reaver posted...

This is an incredibly poor comparison because reasonable and moderate feminists easily outnumber crazy tumblr people

Unfortunately, the crazy tumblr people are the ones that grab the most attention, since they're so much louder than the normal people.
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Tmk posted...

I am specifically talking about modern, first-world feminism

Again, this is such an incredibly diverse group of people that "first world feminism" doesn't actually mean... Well, anything, really. There are an incredibly lengthy arrany of feminist schools of thought in the which, many of which contradict and differ in various ways. You might as well say "I like music," it has roughly the same amount of overreach to it.

You're talking about third wave radical feminism, specifically of the tumblr variety. There are so many schools of thought that differ and the OP's example is a specific type of crazy that most people don't approach. Gamergate, unfortunately, doesn't really have that benefit. That is a very specific, short-lived banner and while I certainly don't think that everyone that was part of it was a wretched bigot, it never actually developed any sort of nuance. Throughout the entire thing I was hoping a less tainted equivalent would split and emerge, but Gamergate was incredibly stubborn about dissenters within itself and as a result became more and more insular and focused on all the wrong things.

Azardea posted...

ultimate reaver posted...

This is an incredibly poor comparison because reasonable and moderate feminists easily outnumber crazy tumblr people

Unfortunately, the crazy tumblr people are the ones that grab the most attention, since they're so much louder than the normal people.

It's an understandable mistake to make if, again, you get most of your information about the subject from certain portions of the internet. But in the end, people on the internet who think feminism is this big school of universal thought are just wrong and don't know a ton about the subject.
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ultimate reaver posted...

It's an understandable mistake to make if, again, you get most of your information about the subject from certain portions of the internet. But in the end, people on the internet who think feminism is this big school of universal thought are just wrong and don't know a ton about the subject.

Well, I guess, if the last Democrat Presidential candidate wasn't one of them, you might have a point.

However, feminist extremism is mainstream now - the female dev in question is being defended by multiple press outlets, some of whom are literally lying about what happened to make her not look shitty.
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darkjedilink posted...

ultimate reaver posted...

It's an understandable mistake to make if, again, you get most of your information about the subject from certain portions of the internet. But in the end, people on the internet who think feminism is this big school of universal thought are just wrong and don't know a ton about the subject.

Well, I guess, if the last Democrat Presidential candidate wasn't one of them, you might have a point.

However, feminist extremism is mainstream now - the female dev in question is being defended by multiple press outlets, some of whom are literally lying about what happened to make her not look shitty.

Hillary Clinton is not an feminist extremist. She was both a political and social moderate who would occasionally pay lip service to mild feminist talking points but she was lacking on even basic things like abortion rights.
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reminder: to redhats, any woman who isn't staying in the kitchen 24/7 covered head to toe in 16th century puritan garb is a "feminist extremist"
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mario2000 posted...

reminder: to redhats, any woman who isn't staying in the kitchen 24/7 covered head to toe in 16th century puritan garb is a "feminist extremist"

So, are you new to the topic, or....
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user darkjedlilink thinks hillary clinton of all people is a "feminist extremist"

ELL

EM

EFF

AY

OH
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mario2000 posted...

user darkjedlilink thinks hillary clinton of all people is a "feminist extremist"

ELL

EM

EFF

AY

OH

If you're going to unironically argue that women get paid '77 cents on the dollar' for the same work, you are a feminist extremist.

If you legitimately argue that you only lost the election because of sexism, you are a feminist extremist.
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darkjedilink posted...

If you're going to unironically argue that women get paid '77 cents on the dollar' for the same work, you are a feminist extremist.

If you legitimately argue that you only lost the election because of sexism, you are a feminist extremist.

This is true, but this:
ultimate reaver posted...

Hillary Clinton is not an feminist extremist. She was both a political and social moderate who would occasionally pay lip service to mild feminist talking points but she was lacking on even basic things like abortion rights.

is also true. Hillary is a moderate corporatist that thought she could win by pandering to every group individually by saying whatever she thought they wanted to hear. The things she said are absolutely extremist feminist viewpoints, but I sincerely doubt she believed any of them. This is the same woman that told BLM they were wasting her time by coming to her with grievances but no plan.
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https://imgur.com/a/qSuKR2v
https://imgur.com/a/qSuKR2v
https://imgur.com/a/qSuKR2v

ahhahahahahah
hahahhahaaaaa
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If you're going to unironically argue that women get paid '77 cents on the dollar' for the same work, you are a feminist extremist.

or a normal person because that is literally a fact

If you legitimately argue that you only lost the election because of sexism, you are a feminist extremist.

sexism played a part, even if it was not the "only" reason
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darkjedilink posted...

mario2000 posted...

user darkjedlilink thinks hillary clinton of all people is a "feminist extremist"

ELL

EM

EFF

AY

OH

If you're going to unironically argue that women get paid '77 cents on the dollar' for the same work, you are a feminist extremist.

If you legitimately argue that you only lost the election because of sexism, you are a feminist extremist.

It's standard fare after all for feminist extremists to do things like defend rapists in court and be anti gay marriage until after it was politically acceptable.
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darkjedilink posted...

mario2000 posted...

user darkjedlilink thinks hillary clinton of all people is a "feminist extremist"

ELL

EM

EFF

AY

OH

If you're going to unironically argue that women get paid '77 cents on the dollar' for the same work, you are a feminist extremist.

If you legitimately argue that you only lost the election because of sexism, you are a feminist extremist.

One of those is not a radical feminist talking point, and the other isn't a feminist talking point at all.

Hillary Clinton is not anywhere near as progressive as the right would love her to be, on much of -any- subject. But that's a go-to attack and always has been, in the same way perennial centrist Barrack Obama was declared a socialist in political attacks.In fact, a common outrage om the left was that she was not anywhere near as progressive as Bernie (who had his own problems on the feminist angle of things).
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Kinny100 posted...

https://imgur.com/a/qSuKR2v
https://imgur.com/a/qSuKR2v
https://imgur.com/a/qSuKR2v

ahhahahahahah
hahahhahaaaaa

Right in the ass, sideways.
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I'm pretty sure psychotic feminists could get together and start openly murdering men to "fight the patriarchy" and you'd still have hordes of people tripping over themselves to go, "actually, not all feminists!"

I guess there really are "very fine people" on both sides.
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why does there seem to be such a high amount of ? Block shitposters
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block waht?
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Kotaku finally released an article. Nathan Grayson, so it's exactly what you'd think it is.

SidAlpha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJkJYEnD5eI" data-time="

Ian Miles Cheong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X_qC7BqUXs" data-time="

I strongly recommend watching the Ian Miles Cheong video.
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This is going to be interesting going forward, because this seems to be the first public case of a legitimate extremist feminist being fired for full extremist feminist behavior and speech.
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There's also a reddit post going around, seemingly an edited one that archives didn't catch the edit of. It's cartoonishly obvious it's not someone genuinely expressing themselves.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhZ-axKWsAUqfdX.jpg

This is what's being passed around as evidence to condemn the whole GW2 community, the company that fired her, and just the whole thing. It's their smoking gun. Look at the in-depth look into what the community REALLY thinks!

Well, that post can't seem to be found, exactly, but in archives a similar post can be:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhdUvAzWAAAuACN.jpg

If you google the username there, you'll find their activity feed on reddit, where they respond to someone outraged at their post and telling them to suck a dick, with this:

Yeah fair enough. That was an inexcusable post so whatever, I'm shit. I'm not going to justify myself or anything, because there's nothing to justify or explain.

Either way, if you wanna continue finding out more horrible things about the GW2 communities relationship with the developers, here's another questionable tidbit from the subreddit. It's not hard to figure out why the post was made.

https://imgur.com/2fdTj3k

https://imgur.com/vX6MqKN

They've always been like this, they've always been trying to bite at the heels of the devs, often for reasons unrelated to the game. And there's been more than once that Arenanet has bent to the will of reddit.

Which further drives home what should have been obvious: they didn't mean what they said, they were portraying an exaggerated strawman to represent the side in favor of her being fired to make them look bad and psychotic.

And now people on social media are clipping that post of his, out of context, not even showing their username, and saying look, this is the kind of person who was calling for her to be fired or saying she was in the wrong. Look at how laughably stupid and evil they are. And it was someone who is on her side, who was strawmanning the other side and sharing a conspiracy theory they have about the evil GW2 fanbase trying to bully some other dev because they're transgender.

I'm actually watching propaganda in the making unfold and spread.

Everyone on Twitter and the like spreading that post as evidence of the GW2 community's mindset is either a total fucking liar, or a total fucking idiot.
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Tmk posted...

Everyone on Twitter

Tmk posted...

is either a total fucking liar, or a total fucking idiot.

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