Current Events > WE HAVE A MELTDOWN. SJW GameDev Edition

(+) Yeah! (+)

So... In short: she was a writer for GW2 who openly was basically admitting she can't write a very good character, with extensive, open disdain towards the very playerbase she is writing for.

Yeah, her firing makes excessive amounts of sense.
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Kinda shocked they took this step. Not sad but just shocked.

Actually impressed. She was god awful anyway and since he was also part of the narrative team he was by extension. The story has been dogshit for the most part so I would have let them go based on that alone.
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Oh god I accidentally discovered a whole subreddit of people like her when I was looking into this.

It's like the left version of T_D.
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If this was the comics industry she would have been promoted
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Tmk posted...

So... In short: she was a writer for GW2 who openly was basically admitting she can't write a very good character, with extensive, open disdain towards the very playerbase she is writing for.

no she actually brought up issues that have always plagued MMO storytelling

it's next to impossible to have involved and unique stories with hundreds of people running around

even TOR which is most known for its story does a lot of instancing to relegate it
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Delirious_Beard posted...

no she actually brought up issues that have always plagued MMO storytelling

She did, and when someone responded with their thoughts on the matter she went insane.
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Delirious_Beard posted...

Tmk posted...

So... In short: she was a writer for GW2 who openly was basically admitting she can't write a very good character, with extensive, open disdain towards the very playerbase she is writing for.

no she actually brought up issues that have always plagued MMO storytelling

it's next to impossible to have involved and unique stories with hundreds of people running around

even TOR which is most known for its story does a lot of instancing to relegate it

Branching dialogue would alleviate that and put a mask on it for a lot of people. Even if it's surface level and all roads still lead to the same way just having the appearance of being able to decide how your character interacts with NPC's goes a long way.

Early in the game we had that and it was nice. In FFXIV (a story that's pretty on-rails when you boil it down) every once in awhile you'll get a dialogue choice that really doesn't matter but it feels good to be able to choose something.
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It seemed less about unique stories and more about the player character themselves actually being a character. So it amounted to her throwing up her hands and saying "the character is just going to suck, it's impossible to make them not suck"
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You can have as many good critiques and ideas about whatever topic you want, if you're a toxic human being you don't deserve a platform to voice them.
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Tmk posted...

Oh god I accidentally discovered a whole subreddit of people like her when I was looking into this.

It's like the left version of T_D.

GamerGhazi?
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There's many groups that get very upset whenever a woman talks back, not all of them are explicitly alt-right but all of them are garbage.

100% agreed, but I'd also add that the armchair writers chomping at the bit to put women in their place (like here) are just one event like this away from being open nazis. Remember Sad Puppies?

I've gotta stop reading through this trainwreck.
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Yes, that's the place. It is really bad.
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Tmk posted...

Yes, that's the place. It is really bad.

They're the "anti-GamerGate" subreddit. Literally. It was founded in direct opposition to the ebul GooberGatorz. :p
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And there's people there religiously hating that GW2 streamer guy Price attacked.

There really is like, a literal army of psychopaths on the internet ready to jump on any feminist's mark to hate and attack someone in blind defense of her honor.
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Yuck. It is a shame you can't criticize females at all without being labeled sexist.

"Huh, he gave some constructive criticism of her work...maybe he might have some sexist attitudes towards women"
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Tmk posted...

Oh god I accidentally discovered a whole subreddit of people like her when I was looking into this.

It's like the left version of T_D.

what subreddit
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Kinny100 posted...

Tmk posted...

Oh god I accidentally discovered a whole subreddit of people like her when I was looking into this.

It's like the left version of T_D.

what subreddit

Probably r/politics
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What goes around, comes around. Hopefully she stays unemployed for a while so that she can learn from her mistakes.
...yeah, right.
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Tmk posted...

Yes, that's the place. It is really bad.

If I recall, a while back, RebelElite revealed he visits that subreddit. But he also suggested they nearly banned him for not being on the whole fat acceptance bandwagon.

So, that might suggest something about their level of SJW nonsense.
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Azardea posted...

What goes around, comes around. Hopefully she stays unemployed for a while so that she can learn from her mistakes.
...yeah, right.

I saw an image of someone already offering her a job yesterday because she'd fit right in due to being "targeted by men who wish to destroy women professionally"
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Tmk posted...

Azardea posted...

What goes around, comes around. Hopefully she stays unemployed for a while so that she can learn from her mistakes.
...yeah, right.

I saw an image of someone already offering her a job yesterday because she'd fit right in due to being "targeted by men who wish to destroy women professionally"

link
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Tmk posted...

And there's people there religiously hating that GW2 streamer guy Price attacked.

There really is like, a literal army of psychopaths on the internet ready to jump on any feminist's mark to hate and attack someone in blind defense of her honor.

That is the kind of thing online personalities like Laci Green and Liana Kerzner have been dealing with for a few years now.

Kerzner is a liberal feminist youtuber who used to be a games writer, but got a lot of flak from those types because she didn't agree with Anita Sarkeesian regarding misogyny in gaming.

It's likely she has been blacklisted from writing for gaming outlets because she took a neutral stance on Gamergate. Some CON chat logs from 2014 were leaked a while back. One of the people in the log was Zoe Quinn who made a point to talk about how much she hated Kerzner and would talk to editors in gaming media outlets. Kerzner hasn't had much of any writing work since then and has mostly turned to YouTube to put out her content regarding video games and feminism.
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Kinny100 posted...

what subreddit

Sephiroth1288 posted...

Probably r/politics

No, he's talking about GamerGhazi.
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Kinny100 posted...

Tmk posted...

Azardea posted...

What goes around, comes around. Hopefully she stays unemployed for a while so that she can learn from her mistakes.
...yeah, right.

I saw an image of someone already offering her a job yesterday because she'd fit right in due to being "targeted by men who wish to destroy women professionally"

link

https://twitter.com/OpenSorceress/status/1014644301949755394
Likely referring to this.
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Kinny100 posted...

link

It's been lost in the miasma of links and topics I went through.

Esrac posted...

That is the kind of thing online personalities like Laci Green and Liana Kerzner have been dealing with for a few years now.

Kerzner is a liberal feminist youtuber who used to be a games writer, but got a lot of flak from those types because she didn't agree with Anita Sarkeesian regarding misogyny in gaming.

It's likely she has been blacklisted from writing for gaming outlets because she took a neutral stance on Gamergate. Some CON chat logs from 2014 were leaked a while back. One of the people in the log was Zoe Quinn who made a point to talk about how much she hated Kerzner and would talk to editors in gaming media outlets. Kerzner hasn't had much of any writing work since then and has mostly turned to YouTube to put out her content regarding video games and feminism.

It seems like Gamergate in particular is a very touchy subject where a lot of hardline feminists just outright want you to die if you're even NEUTRAL on it. Like, either you condemn and mock it as just some troll/harasser brigade, or you deserve to die.

I know there's many hardline people like that on this site too. Which means there's probably a lot of people here and on the politics board who technically wish death on me since I'm certainly not in agreement with them about Gamergate.
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Azardea posted...

https://twitter.com/OpenSorceress/status/1014644301949755394
Likely referring to this.

Yep! That's it.
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Tmk posted...

I know there's many hardline people like that on this site too. Which means there's probably a lot of people here and on the politics board who technically wish death on me since I'm certainly not in agreement with them about Gamergate.

On rare occasions some random guy in another subreddit will flip their lid in the middle of a normal conversation because they decided to check my profile and realize I post on KotakuInAction. "YER A GOOBERGATOR!1!"
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It's strange to me Reddit lets anyone just snoop through an entire user's activity history. That seems insanely ripe for harassment.
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Tmk posted...

It's strange to me Reddit lets anyone just snoop through an entire user's activity history. That seems insanely ripe for harassment.

There are subreddits that ban anyone who's ever posted anything on KIA on sight.
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Esrac posted...

There are subreddits that ban anyone who's ever posted anything on KIA on sight.

I actually avoided posting on KiA for several years because of that. Then I realized I was being stupid because none of the subs that banned people for posting on KiA were subs that I would ever post in or read anyway. And it's not like I was using my reddit account for anything else anyway.
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Amatsukaze posted...

Remember not getting triggered by someone just explaining something to you?

It's been so long that these pussies have had nothing but whiner's tears in their veins that I don't remember not being irritated by them living.

WWIII with conscription when?!
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Does it make me a petty person to kinda enjoy the fact that the social media sword people like her often use to try and ruin people's livelihoods got turned back on them for once?
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Vyrulisse posted...

Does it make me a petty person to kinda enjoy the fact that the social media sword people like her often use to try and ruin people's livelihoods got turned back on them for once?

Nope. Turnabout is fair play.
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Vyrulisse posted...

Does it make me a petty person to kinda enjoy the fact that the social media sword people like her often use to try and ruin people's livelihoods got turned back on them for once?

Nah, it just makes you normal.
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Tmk posted...

Azardea posted...

https://twitter.com/OpenSorceress/status/1014644301949755394
Likely referring to this.

Yep! That's it.

All potential customers and investors will have to do is to dig through JP's twitter history and that will make quite a few people wary.
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I unfortunately see it a bit more cynically, in that the only reason this likely even happened is that she was her usual sunshiney self to like the worst possible person she could have acted that way to, and then double downed on that demeanor to ANOTHER of the worst possible people she could have acted that way to. All the while wearing a giant spinning bowtie that reads "I have open disdain for the playerbase" written in neon on it. And all this was a lightning rod of unwanted attention on the internet that inevitably led to people digging up her past and it kinda becoming obvious this isn't her making a mistake or having a bad day, she is just like this all the time, and goes out of her way to be like this, all the time. And is even such an insufferable asshole to openly celebrate TB's death.

So while it's nice to see that sword turned on one of her ilk for a change, I feel like the planets needed to pretty much align for it to happen, whereas it takes considerably less for the other side to wield that sword.

If she had just been a total asshole to an actual random person no one knows about, then she probably would have been fine. Considering the sheer history of dickishness she has, that seems like a pretty well substantiated belief. It didn't lead to consequences until she was burning bridges directly in-tent of her own business basically, and responding to backlash over that by burning the bridge harder.

AND EVEN WITH THAT SAID, I suspect the first plan was not even to fire her. Behind closed doors, this Mike whatever guy, who announced the firing, probably had a sit down with her and was like, you acted way out of line, you need to apologise before this becomes apocalypticly bad PR, and her reaction to THAT is probably what got her fired. She probably freaked out, got really defensive, accused him of sexism, possibly threatened to use aforementioned sword against him/the company for siding with this phantom Men Brigade of Harassers she's being "targeted" by and he was like, "Welp...you're just a dumpster fire, you gotta go" and then that other guy, who from what I saw a lot more people are like "damn, it's a shame he got fired too, even though he acted dumb" probably tried to stand up for her, maybe even issue some ultimatum like you can't fire her for this. If you are going to fire her, then fire me too, I can't abide all this sexism!

I mean just look at how she acts. Can you imagine how she'd react if her boss told her she was out of line and needs to apologise?

So yeah, even with all the backlash, I'd be very surprised if the immediate plan from the company was to fire them; I suspect instead she was told what she needs to do, to climb out of this hole she is pushing the whole company in, and she was like, "Oh yeah?!" grabbed a shovel and kept digging.
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Tmk posted...

I unfortunately see it a bit more cynically, in that the only reason this likely even happened is that she was her usual sunshiney self to like the worst possible person she could have acted that way to, and then double downed on that demeanor to ANOTHER of the worst possible people she could have acted that way to. All the while wearing a giant spinning bowtie that reads "I have open disdain for the playerbase" written in neon on it. And all this was a lightning rod of unwanted attention on the internet that inevitably led to people digging up her past and it kinda becoming obvious this isn't her making a mistake or having a bad day, she is just like this all the time, and goes out of her way to be like this, all the time. And is even such an insufferable asshole to openly celebrate TB's death.

So while it's nice to see that sword turned on one of her ilk for a change, I feel like the planets needed to pretty much align for it to happen, whereas it takes considerably less for the other side to wield that sword.

If she had just been a total asshole to an actual random person no one knows about, then she probably would have been fine. Considering the sheer history of dickishness she has, that seems like a pretty well substantiated belief. It didn't lead to consequences until she was burning bridges directly in-tent of her own business basically, and responding to backlash over that by burning the bridge harder.

AND EVEN WITH THAT SAID, I suspect the first plan was not even to fire her. Behind closed doors, this Mike whatever guy, who announced the firing, probably had a sit down with her and was like, you acted way out of line, you need to apologise before this becomes apocalypticly bad PR, and her reaction to THAT is probably what got her fired. She probably freaked out, got really defensive, accused him of sexism, possibly threatened to use aforementioned sword against him/the company for siding with this phantom Men Brigade of Harassers she's being "targeted" by and he was like, "Welp...you're just a dumpster fire, you gotta go" and then that other guy, who from what I saw a lot more people are like "damn, it's a shame he got fired too, even though he acted dumb" probably tried to stand up for her, maybe even issue some ultimatum like you can't fire her for this. If you are going to fire her, then fire me too, I can't abide all this sexism!

I mean just look at how she acts. Can you imagine how she'd react if her boss told her she was out of line and needs to apologise?

So yeah, even with all the backlash, I'd be very surprised if the immediate plan from the company was to fire them; I suspect instead she was told what she needs to do, to climb out of this hole she is pushing the whole company in, and she was like, "Oh yeah?!" grabbed a shovel and kept digging.

I've seen it play out this way over various demographics as well. Mostly with men on various backgrounds and issues, but a few women as well.
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On a similar note, Anet takes how they appear to their community very seriously. Maybe more seriously than most at least openly. She had to know that being there for nearly a year.

They said nothing all day and likely had many meetings. For all we know she was already on thin ice. Usually toxic people like her don't limit it to one medium. I imagine she wasn't particularly a joy to work with or for as it is.
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I could see her being unpleasant in general. Although I could also believe she'd have long bouts of not being horrible. I mean, the original stuff she was saying, about sort of insight into her thought process about writing and stuff, that all seemed fine and interesting to read. It's unfortunate she has these issues, because in an alternate timeline where she's more well-adjusted socially, in response to that guy she could have maybe had an insightful dialogue about story and writing and with others' input as well and just a nice dev/fan interaction.

But no. We live in the timeline where everything is a political battleground for the culture warriors to shriek and ham up perceived sleights like the most embarrassing of soccer players.
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Tmk posted...

I could see her being unpleasant in general. Although I could also believe she'd have long bouts of not being horrible. I mean, the original stuff she was saying, about sort of insight into her thought process about writing and stuff, that all seemed fine and interesting to read. It's unfortunate she has these issues, because in an alternate timeline where she's more well-adjusted socially, in response to that guy she could have maybe had an insightful dialogue about story and writing and with others' input as well and just a nice dev/fan interaction.

But no. We live in the timeline where everything is a political battleground for the culture warriors to shriek and ham up perceived sleights like the most embarrassing of soccer players.

That's true actually. Before the recent AMA most people didn't know or particularly care who she was and she actually came across rather well in her interactions during it. Didn't take long to completely destroy that though as we saw.
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Rimmer_Dall posted...

Esrac posted...

He kind of validates what I said earlier. They think of their Twitter as a private space that should be free of unwanted input. But it isn't that, unless you set it to private, it's a public forum where anyone can spout any thought out to anyone who want to read it and reply to it.

I do kinda feel bad for him getting fired over white knighting of all things.
https://twitter.com/peter_fries/status/895638536380071936
Though according to someone on Reddit, firing her but not him over this situation could be seen as cause for a discrimination lawsuit. No clue if that's true or not.

he kinda looks like david mink in that first picture
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OwlRammer posted...

Rimmer_Dall posted...

Esrac posted...

He kind of validates what I said earlier. They think of their Twitter as a private space that should be free of unwanted input. But it isn't that, unless you set it to private, it's a public forum where anyone can spout any thought out to anyone who want to read it and reply to it.

I do kinda feel bad for him getting fired over white knighting of all things.
https://twitter.com/peter_fries/status/895638536380071936
Though according to someone on Reddit, firing her but not him over this situation could be seen as cause for a discrimination lawsuit. No clue if that's true or not.

he kinda looks like david mink in that first picture

That's a name i haven't heard in years

Looks like brandon sheffield is salty she got the axe.

https://twitter.com/necrosofty/status/1015058130647093248
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pogo_rabid posted...

Looks like brandon sheffield is salty she got the axe.

https://twitter.com/necrosofty/status/1015058130647093248

And he's apparently gotten all his information on what happened from the PCGamer article on the events, which is dripping with soy. Someone should send him the OneAngryGamer article if he wants a more accurate take.
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Trying to follow this on Reddit and Twitter, lots of cringe posts from SocJus lol

Just goes to show that many victims and minority strife is due to their own bullshit.
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I assume there will be a slow drip parade of uninformed people chiming in to shake their fist indignantly at the firing and "mean ol' gamer bois" to try and rile up uninformed reactionaries. Because plenty of people are looking for any excuse to find the newest soapbox to stand on and say the same tired rhetoric. Facts don't matter, only assumed concepts.
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