Current Events > It bothers me that the lesbian kiss in Last of Us 2 is being advertised

(+) Yeah! (+)

pinky0926 posted...

Why do you have to take a lesbian relationship as a statement?

Because that's how it was used. Ellie has been gay, this has been known for some time. But now it's being used as a selling and marketing point. Let me put it this way. If you walked into the Sony conference with zero knowledge on the Last of Us, you don't walk away from that trailer going "Oh Last of Us is that zombie game" or "Last of Us is that survival game" you walk out going "Last of Us is that game with the gay girl."
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pinky0926 posted...

BatmanWTtP posted...

Veggeta_MAX posted...

"I'd complain too if there was a straight couple kissing!"

Are you sure?

Once again, Ellie being gay is essential to the way the trailer was laid out yet her being gay had nothing to do with the plot of the trailer. If you swap out Ellie's girlfriend for a man then it becomes padded with even more unnecessary fluff.

Maybe the romance is a centre plot in the game? Do you even know? You actually don't, because we don't know what the plot is yet.

There's a difference between a romance plot and drawing attention to a character's sexual orientation.

A romance plot with characters who happen to be gay is different from a romance plot with character is that they're gay.
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BatmanWTtP posted...

pinky0926 posted...

Why do you have to take a lesbian relationship as a statement?

Because that's how it was used. Ellie has been gay, this has been known for some time. But now it's being used as a selling and marketing point. Let me put it this way. If you walked into the Sony conference with zero knowledge on the Last of Us, you don't walk away from that trailer going "Oh Last of Us is that zombie game" or "Last of Us is that survival game" you walk out going "Last of Us is that game with the gay girl."

Actually I already have zero knowledge of the last of us (never played it, just saw this traiker) and what I saw was a story driven game with stunning gameplay.

You're making a thing out of something that is not a thing. While you're sitting there treating this like a grand statement or SJW agenda the rest of us are interested in how the game is going to turn out.

Her relationship with the other chick might be central to the plot, you don't know.
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tamashiini posted...

And yet no one would have batted an eye if a straight couple was being paraded around to sell the game.

Hmmmmmm.

Probably because straight people are the vast majority.

I don't really care that they're lesbians though personally.
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pinky0926 posted...

You're making a thing out of something that is not a thing. While you're sitting there treating this like a grand statement or SJW agenda the rest of us are interested in how the game is going to turn out.

"It's graphics, it's gameplay, it's story and you're trying not to let any one pillar overwhelm the other. You're trying to just keep all of this stuff in your mind like, how does it all work together? Recently, I realized that there's this other pillar of diversity. That's just as important as any one of these other pillars. I've kind of empowered people on the team that have made this their top priority."
Druckmann singled out Naughty Dog lead concept character artist Ashley Swidowski, whom he said is "constantly challenging me and pushing for diversity in our cast."

When designing new characters, Swidowski asks Druckmann things like "Can this be a person of color?" and "Can this be a woman?"

Because that's exactly what it is
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This is ridiculous. Ellie has always been gay. Its been a fact for damn near 5 years now. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.
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_Goggalor_ posted...

This is ridiculous. Ellie has always been gay. Its been a fact for damn near 5 years now. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.

I feel like I've repeated this multiple times, the problem isn't Ellie being gay, the problem is that her being gay is now a marketing point. She's no longer a character who happens to be gay, she's the gay character.
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Same.
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BatmanWTtP posted...

pinky0926 posted...

You're making a thing out of something that is not a thing. While you're sitting there treating this like a grand statement or SJW agenda the rest of us are interested in how the game is going to turn out.

"It's graphics, it's gameplay, it's story and you're trying not to let any one pillar overwhelm the other. You're trying to just keep all of this stuff in your mind like, how does it all work together? Recently, I realized that there's this other pillar of diversity. That's just as important as any one of these other pillars. I've kind of empowered people on the team that have made this their top priority."
Druckmann singled out Naughty Dog lead concept character artist Ashley Swidowski, whom he said is "constantly challenging me and pushing for diversity in our cast."

When designing new characters, Swidowski asks Druckmann things like "Can this be a person of color?" and "Can this be a woman?"

Because that's exactly what it is

Ok so to clarify

This annoys you why? A fictional plot has a level of cultural relevance?

I actually really don't understand your beef here. A character is gay and you're the only person here who is bothered but you're reassuring us that you don't care if someone is gay. Something something sjws.
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Lol TC. This is entirely because of your own interpretation of the presentation.

Those of us without a bug up our ass saw the humanity of Ellie finding love in such a harsh world, which played starkly against the vicious combat the scene is interplayed with.
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BatmanWTtP posted...

_Goggalor_ posted...

This is ridiculous. Ellie has always been gay. Its been a fact for damn near 5 years now. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.

I feel like I've repeated this multiple times, the problem isn't Ellie being gay, the problem is that her being gay is now a marketing point. She's no longer a character who happens to be gay, she's the gay character.

The game is about her avenging someone she loves. If she's gay, which she is, that person is going to be a girl. So the relationship, whether gay or straight, is the focus of the game. It wouldn't make sense not to show the kiss.
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What kind of bizarro world is this ?!, dudes used to love lesbians and bisexual women.
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BatmanWTtP posted...

_Goggalor_ posted...

This is ridiculous. Ellie has always been gay. Its been a fact for damn near 5 years now. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.

I feel like I've repeated this multiple times, the problem isn't Ellie being gay, the problem is that her being gay is now a marketing point. She's no longer a character who happens to be gay, she's the gay character.

Why is that a problem though
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Two things:

BatmanWTtP posted...

In that trailer, what did it matter that Ellie was gay? The trailer plot was "Ellie is at a dance, she has a moment of peace, we're shown an intense moment, and then we return to the peaceful moment." Why was such a large focus placed on Ellie's sexual orientation. If the dance scene had opened up with Ellie and her girlfriend dancing or the "everyone is staring" part was cut this wouldn't be an issue. The problem comes with Ellie's sexual orientation being used as a selling point and the focus of trailer where it is irrelevant to the overall plot of the trailer.

I could be misreading it, but with the bluegrass music local traditional dance party, the setting seemed to be like some southern small town. This impression was reinforced by the couple's acute awareness that everyone was staring. So to me it seems like an relevant part of Ellie's background, that her relationship with the community might be a little bit of being shunned because she's openly gay. But then again, isn't that a bit difficult to say before we know more?

But much more importantly:
BatmanWTtP posted...

Let me put it this way. Why is a character's sexual orientation being used to market a zombie game? This isn't the coming of age story of a lesbian coming to terms with her sexuality and accepting herself, it's the story of a zombie apocalypse, yet the selling point of the game right now isn't the game play, or the story itself, the selling point and focus of the marketing is "Ellie is gay, look how gay she is".

If you're genuinely concerned that sexual orientation is used as a marketing tool, why not let gay women be offended by it and empower their voice? It's their identity that is ostensibly used for nefarious, capitalist purposes, let them be heard, listen to how they feel about this. Otherwise, aren't you just an SJW getting offended on behalf of someone else?
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pinky0926 posted...

Ok so to clarify

This annoys you why? A fictional plot has a level of cultural relevance?

I actually really don't understand your beef here. A character is gay and you're the only person here who is bothered but you're reassuring us that you don't care if someone is gay. Something something sjws.

Because it's going about it the wrong way. If a character is gay then they're gay, but when you go out of your way to show how gay they are and make they're gayness a focus of something unrelated it takes away from the overall story being presented. Ellie's sexual orientation didn't matter to the plot of trailer, yet it was made the focus for no reason other than to parade her orientation and go "look how gay she is, have we mentioned she's gay?"

_Goggalor_ posted...

So the relationship, whether gay or straight, is the focus of the game. It wouldn't make sense not to show the kiss.

The kiss itself isn't the problem nor is it that she's gay. The plot of the trailer is "Ellie goes to a dance, has a moment with her girlfriend, remembers a traumatic event, and then goes back to a moment of peace." That's not the way it plays out. What we get instead is Ellie gets hit on by a guy so her girlfriend can come in and shock everyone with the reveal that she's gay. Then they dance and through dialogue bring attention to the fact that their gay." Her being gay doesn't matter to the overall story of the trailer, yet it becomes the focus just to send a message.

scar the 1 posted...

I could be misreading it, but with the bluegrass music local traditional dance party, the setting seemed to be like some southern small town. This impression was reinforced by the couple's acute awareness that everyone was staring. So to me it seems like an relevant part of Ellie's background, that her relationship with the community might be a little bit of being shunned because she's openly gay. But then again, isn't that a bit difficult to say before we know more?

This could be true, the problem is that it isn't shown or established. If a character in the background had said something about Ellie because of her orientation, or Ellie had been known as a closeted or afraid to show her sexuality this would have been an actual important moment for the character, but it's not shown as that, it's just "look how gay she is"

scar the 1 posted...

If you're genuinely concerned that sexual orientation is used as a marketing tool, why not let gay women be offended by it and empower their voice? It's their identity that is ostensibly used for nefarious, capitalist purposes, let them be heard, listen to how they feel about this. Otherwise, aren't you just an SJW getting offended on behalf of someone else?

My problem is that this tactic will be used going forward and change the way games are written and perceived. The game is being used to send a message which is going to impact gaming as a whole.
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A. No one who knows about the last of us is "shocked" that Ellie is gay. If she wasn't, it would be weird.

B. The plot revolves around her love for this girl. To not show it would also be weird.
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This topic screams of *I'm not homophobic but I hate those icky gay people existing out in the open instead of being properly ashamed of themselves*
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YOUHAVENOHOPE posted...

>people don't bat an eye at the various examples of hetero relationships playing out in other games
>see one lesbian pair kiss
>lose collective shit

I think you are twisting it.

If the wow factor of the reveal of say uncharted 5 is Nathan and some chick kissing. I would be fucking bothered too.
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yusiko posted...

This topic screams of *I'm not homophobic but I hate those icky gay people existing out in the open instead of being properly ashamed of themselves*

Yes, I'm clearly homophobic for being against the gay community being used as a marketing tool
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BatmanWTtP posted...

This could be true, the problem is that it isn't shown or established. If a character in the background had said something about Ellie because of her orientation, or Ellie had been known as a closeted or afraid to show her sexuality this would have been an actual important moment for the character, but it's not shown as that, it's just "look how gay she is"

To be perfectly clear "look how gay she is" is your interpretation. I don't share that impression at all.

BatmanWTtP posted...

My problem is that this tactic will be used going forward and change the way games are written and perceived. The game is being used to send a message which is going to impact gaming as a whole.

Break this down to me. What is "gaming as a whole", and how will it be impacted?
EDIT: And please answer the question If you're genuinely concerned that sexual orientation is used as a marketing tool, why not let gay women be offended by it and empower their voice? It's their identity that is ostensibly used for nefarious, capitalist purposes, let them be heard, listen to how they feel about this. Otherwise, aren't you just an SJW getting offended on behalf of someone else?
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I like how people have to purposefully miss the point in order to dismiss TCs perfectly valid complaint.
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scar the 1 posted...

What is "gaming as a whole", and how will it be impacted?

Gaming as a whole is the way games are written and marketed. Any flaws that people have with LoU2 can now be dismissed as "You're only against it because of the lesbians", it's marketed more on "Look how progressive it is" rather than the story or gameplay.
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TC has it occurred to you that 100% of the replies in this topic telling you youre being silly might mean something
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Mr_Biscuit posted...

TC has it occurred to you that 100% of the replies in this topic telling you youre being silly might mean something

I don't think the masses, and especially the GameFAQs masses, are necessarily the ones in the right.

Also

BLAKUboy posted...

I like how people have to purposefully miss the point in order to dismiss TCs perfectly valid complaint.

This.
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Mr_Biscuit posted...

TC has it occurred to you that 100% of the replies in this topic telling you youre being silly might mean something

When I'm telling you my point, and your argument is to twist and ignore my point, and I respond by redirecting you to my point, and your response is to again try to twist my point, then no I don't take you seriously.
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Hey now, I believe that TC believes what he believes. I'm just saying that "this was done just for attention" cannot be proven. Making interpretations and accusations based on something that cannot be proven says more about the accuser than the accused.
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BatmanWTtP posted...

Mr_Biscuit posted...

TC has it occurred to you that 100% of the replies in this topic telling you youre being silly might mean something

When I'm telling you my point, and your argument is to twist and ignore my point, and I respond by redirecting you to my point, and your response is to again try to twist my point, then no I don't take you seriously.

You dont HAVE a point. Weve seen three trailers for a character-driven movie-game, one of which put any emphasis whatsoever on her being gay, and youre flying off the handle about it somehow proving that suddenly her only trait is being gay.
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Mr_Biscuit posted...

BatmanWTtP posted...

Mr_Biscuit posted...

TC has it occurred to you that 100% of the replies in this topic telling you youre being silly might mean something

When I'm telling you my point, and your argument is to twist and ignore my point, and I respond by redirecting you to my point, and your response is to again try to twist my point, then no I don't take you seriously.

You dont HAVE a point. Weve seen three trailers for a character-driven movie-game, one of which put any emphasis whatsoever on her being gay, and youre flying off the handle about it somehow proving that suddenly her only trait is being gay.

Thanks for showing you're not worth talking to
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